12-09-2003 20:56									#151
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Wow Catfish, those are stunning

	13-09-2003 04:01									#152
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I don't get what is the problem if they are in TOT format.His people gfx(They are from Warhammer: The Dark omen,yes?) worked OK in MGE.

	13-09-2003 04:47									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Catfish What would Nemo, Erwan, BeBro and now Fairline do if they weren't restricted to the 8-bit Civ2 palette?

I should've added Favoured Flight to this list - the 5 best Civ2 artists of all time IMHO.

quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Please reveal your terrain!

Will do. I found that the terrain released with ToT to be plain ugly - a big disappointment considering the potential available to the artists. The standard game terrains I now use are a combination of ones I've made and ones I've downloaded (why make it again if you don't have to). I suspect that the mountains I used are a slightly lighter version of the ones from your ToT Dictator2 scenario - they are easily the best I've seen.

quote: Originally posted by fairline Wow Catfish, those are stunning

I might be OK at working on photos and ripped units, but I'm not too hot at making units from scratch. I blame you and your superb units for getting me interested in this stuff again . Anyway, this has been sitting on my HD for too long; it's about time I shared the wealth.

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos I don't get what is the problem if they are in TOT format.His people gfx(They are from Warhammer: The Dark omen,yes?) worked OK in MGE.

I don't own MGE so I can't comment on whether or not they work, although I always assumed it used the old 8-bit palette. Yes, they are reduced versions of the character portraits from Warhammer: Dark Omen.

	13-09-2003 14:08									#154
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ToT should have been the greatest last gift to the CIV2 community from Microprose.

In a way it was.

But if the had made all those additions, and added them to MGE (I am thinking the graphics here) we would have had an amazing legacy.

As it is, I think ToT is still worthy, but I find MGE to be more accessible.

	13-09-2003 15:33									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos I don't get what is the problem if they are in TOT format.His people gfx(They are from Warhammer: The Dark omen,yes?) worked OK in MGE.

well they work in MGE but you have to resize them and so on. It's a lot of work

ToT is too dark for my taste.. gives me a bad feeling or something hehe and don't like that the menu is in the upper row cause I'm used to that it's to the right in MGE. Anyways, I wasn't meaning that ToT is bad.. I just like MGE better myself

	13-09-2003 15:35									#156
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I think that the single most important flaw of ToT is the lack of an editor. The day such a utility would come out, it'd be bye bye MGE for me.

	13-09-2003 17:10									#157
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling As it is, I think ToT is still worthy, but I find MGE to be more accessible.

In what way? I don't have MGE.

quote: Originally posted by Arthedain ToT is too dark for my taste.. gives me a bad feeling or something hehe and don't like that the menu is in the upper row cause I'm used to that it's to the right in MGE. Anyways, I wasn't meaning that ToT is bad.. I just like MGE better myself

That's why I changed the graphics. My terrains are now posted in the non-unit graphics thread. You can easily switch the position of the menu to the right-hand-side by toggling the Map layout option in the View menu.

quote: Originally posted by tanelorn I think that the single most important flaw of ToT is the lack of an editor. The day such a utility would come out, it'd be bye bye MGE for me.

I find it amazing in these forums as to the number of "veteran" scenario designers that still use the scenario editor. Years ago when I first dabbled in scenario design, I took a look at the editor and moved straight on to Notepad - it was quicker, easier and I knew exactly what changes had been made to my files.

Even more astounding is that many people still use it to edit graphics - which is probably why, despite the possibilities created by 24-bit colour, very little has eventuated from the Civ2 community in this area.

	13-09-2003 17:17									#158
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The ones who uses the editors to edit graphics are most likely extremely few.

The editors actually are more simple for some stuff, at most things they are a disaster though...

	13-09-2003 17:27									#159
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Thanks for the compliment catfish, although I'm not sure it's deserved Standing on the shoulders of giants springs to mind. For my two-pennorth, I'd put Curt Sibling way up the all-time list of best Civ graphics artists.

You were referring to the health bars in ToT. Check out Mercator's efforts to remove them:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=88815

This should be useful for 'units' that represent terrain features and suchlike.

It's entirely possible to make ToT graphically superior to MGE, as your units and terrain show, and it has far greater events capability and the multi-map feature. Come on designers, move over to ToT, you know it makes sense

	13-09-2003 17:44									#160
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quote: Originally posted by fairline Thanks for the compliment catfish, although I'm not sure it's deserved Standing on the shoulders of giants springs to mind. For my two-pennorth, I'd put Curt Sibling way up the all-time list of best Civ graphics artists.

You're probably right about Curt. He has done a lot of miscellaneous graphics (icons, cities, people, etc) as well as many unit mods in the Nemo style.

quote: Originally posted by fairline You were referring to the health bars in ToT. Check out Mercator's efforts to remove them: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=88815 This should be useful for 'units' that represent terrain features and suchlike.

Health bars can get ugly in ToT, especially when you want terrain units. It's a really dumb design decision by Microprose.

I've seen the Mercator thread before. It applies to sprites, though. I guess terrain could be converted more easily because they don't need to be animated. I've never tried to create ToT sprites - always turn them off anyway.

	14-09-2003 12:55									#161
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Thanks guys.

I think we all rule.
They fact that we have such a good community for CIV2 on the net is a testament to the greatness of the game,
and the superb dedication of the talented creators and posters right here!

On topic:

My dream would be to merge MGE and ToT into a game with those big graphics,
expanded rules, events and features of both games, and add them into one CIV2 program...

That would be excellent.

	14-09-2003 14:31									#162
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Actually my dream is to become Priminister of Greece, but i think a MGE-ToT merging will suffice.

	14-09-2003 15:11									#163
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That's the kind of stuff that end up in people's sigs and haunt you forever....

	14-09-2003 15:42									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos Actually my dream is to become Priminister of Greece, but i think a MGE-ToT merging will suffice.

! My dream involves a Ferrari 250GTO, Kylie Minogue and a large bag of coke, but if you want to dream of being Prime Minister, you go right ahead

This is probably a very sad British thing, but I just love top 5 lists. My all-time top 5 civ2 artists, in no particular order:

BeBro - ancient and medieval units/cities
Nemo - tanks/planes/cities/terrain
Alex - WW2 units, although he could have used more detail
Curt - terrain/cities/shields
Favoured Flight - units/terrain

Then there's my top 5 scenario designers..... I should open a thread

	14-09-2003 16:00									#165
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Well if i was Prime minister i would have that Ferrari,Kylie Minogue(or a Greek equivelant), the bag of coke PLUS power.

I second you on the Top5 list.Although i consider your units far better than Alex's he was a sort of pioneer in that area.And anyway i think that modesty too is a British thing.

	14-09-2003 16:09									#166
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My dream involves myself as a dashing Luftwaffe ace pilot, tons of red bull, and Jenny Aniston in a tight leather catsuit!

But let us not go into that!

	14-09-2003 16:14									#167
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And since we are on the subject, I think Fairline, Tanelorn Jim and Harry Tuttle are the leaders of an fine CIV2 unit renaissance!

One not seen since the heady days of kobayashi's ZWK or Nemo's 2194 days of war.

But all our creators/posters here do a great duty, keeping this madness alive and making a legacy of CIV2!

Long may it remain so!

	14-09-2003 16:18									#168
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quote: Originally posted by fairline My all-time top 5 civ2 artists, in no particular order:

Similar to mine . You sell yourself short BTW. Have you seen Erwan's units? His website is dead these days, but I believe his units are superior to Alex's.

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos Well if i was Prime minister i would have that Ferrari,Kylie Minogue(or a Greek equivelant), the bag of coke PLUS power.

What's the fascination with Kylie Minogue? Ordinary looks and even worse music.

BTW nobody has answered my question about MGE? It has an editor, but what else does it have over ToT? Everyone seems to want a ToT/MGE hybrid.

	14-09-2003 18:50									#169
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Well, one thing is for sure, MGE achieved far better sales, whereas ToT lacks the audience...
I really do not think it is superior to ToT in any way. You cant even edit most of the Civpedia descriptions in MGE, and you have to accept limitations in unit number, event space, event choices, quality of graphics (the list goes on...)
The sad truth is that ToT never caught up with MGE, because of dumb marketing policies, not because it wasn't as good.

Kylie is sort of good looking for a dwarf. I'd say her sister is much nicer, if only she kept her mouth shut.
(That would be a huge improvement for the entire gender but hey,...)
Actually a woman that knows what to say and when to say it beats an army of good looking "babes". It's brains over looks, definitely.

I'd be surprised if this didn't draw the moderators attention

	14-09-2003 21:11									#170
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I never use the MGE editor.

I prefer hands on scen creation any day, I think ToT has some good points, but suffers from an ugly vanilla graphics range, and various small drawbacks.

MGE is the player's choice, due to it merely being a multiplayer incarnation of CIV2.

I really get steamed at it's lack of unit and events choices but cannot really complain at the graphics.

I think it would have been wonderful to have MGE scens to be importable into ToT, it wouldn't have meant too much work.

Instead of the shady animated sprites no-one uses, they (microprose) should have made ToT a big base case for all CIV2 scenario scenarios.

A ToT editor (or lack of) is not a big deal...
But one that took care of multi-maps would have been a winner...

Just my 2p.

Last edited by curtsibling on 15-09-2003 at 15:58

	15-09-2003 12:19									#171
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Thanks guys for the heads up on MGE. My preconceived viewpoint of its capabilities was pretty much on the mark then. I was just curious as to why it had such strong support here.

quote: Originally posted by tanelorn Kylie is sort of good looking for a dwarf. I'd say her sister is much nicer, if only she kept her mouth shut.

LOL. I'm not one for gossip rags and women's mags, so I can't comment on your second statement. I think the Minogue sisters get more media attention overseas than in their home country these days.

quote: Originally posted by curtsibling I prefer hands on ceation any day, I think ToT has some good points, but suffers from an ugly vanilla graphics range, and various small drawbacks.

You're not wrong there - they are total arse IMHO. However, the graphics can be substituted with ones that are superior to vanilla ToT and its predecessors.

Oh yeah, what was the topic again? "Speculative" graphics. Hmm...

	15-09-2003 17:42									#172
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I meant her auful singing, I am somewhat offended by that comment (though I'm not into pop and it all sounds like crap to me, anyway).

	15-09-2003 20:03									#173
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Now guys, let's not fight over her.

Jenny Aniston is far nicer anyway!

	15-09-2003 21:19									#174
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quote: Originally posted by Catfish ...Have you seen Erwan's units? His website is dead these days, but I believe his units are superior to Alex's.

I thing Erwan's use of colour and shading was excellent, but I prefer Alex Mor's unit poses and proportions, so I guess it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. They were both great artists.

Alex's WW2 infantry were superior to his other stuff IMHO. I think my favourite Erwan units would have to be his chariots;his female units are second to none, as well.

BTW, I lost my Erwan unit collection when my PC died some time ago. Anyone know where I can get 'em?

quote: What's the fascination with Kylie Minogue? Ordinary looks and even worse music.

Her 'music' is truly appalling

	15-09-2003 21:31									#175
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Here they are.

Attachment: erwan units.gif
This has been downloaded 222 time(s).

	16-09-2003 00:21									#176
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Thanks EZ

I'd forgotten how good his 'king' and diplomat units were.

	16-09-2003 05:58									#177
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quote: Originally posted by tanelorn I am somewhat offended by that comment

Apologies man, didn't mean to offend. I misinterpreted your comment and then made an unfair assumption. Certainly I was having a dig at this kind of mentality. It's likely that both our Minogue comments may offend some people.

quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Now guys, let's not fight over her.

I thought we already gave them away to you Brits.

There are a few missing from Erwan's collection, notably his settler/engineer units and a couple of his Atlantis thingies...


And then of course there are his cities. The isometric ones are especially good.

	16-09-2003 13:17									#178
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It's all amazing stuff!

	18-09-2003 08:21									#179
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More ToT fantasy units, some dating back a few years. Once again the source material for most is photographs; some are game rips and others are combinations of both. There’s a mixed bag of general fantasy units and Lord of the Rings stuff.



1st row: Nazgűl, cave troll, orc, orc archer, orc, Rider of Rohan, Haradrim cavalry, Easterling cavalry, poncy-looking elf/Celeborn.
2nd row: storm golem, 3 dwarves, king with sword, assassin/spy, wizard, spell-caster type, sorceress.
3rd row: villager, hero, spearman, axeman, swordsman, king, knight, beholder, siege tower.
Download bmp

A few notes: The shorter humans are generally of an older vintage – my Civ2 FW bias back then. The Rider of Rohan is a combination of a photo (rider) and a rip from AoK (horse). Similarly, the Easterling unit is a modified Erwan Mongol on an AoK horse. The Haradrim is a modified AoK camel rider on a heavy cavalry archer horse. These 3 mounted units were made before the LOTR movies came out. The beholder and siege towers are rips from Baldur’s Gate and AoM, respectively.

What do some of these units look like in game for those without ToT?

Last edited by Catfish on 28-01-2004 at 10:47

	18-09-2003 08:52									#180
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Please you PNG or, if you are really unable, BMP for posting high colour graphics. JPG is a lossy compression and always results in blurring.