06-07-2003 07:01									#181
	Increase Your PM Length

From Beta: Edit: It looks like Beta played Vox's turn before I got read the message, but I'm not sure what they did.

quote: We Have The Save ... and need answers. It will dictate what we do this turn. Can you please let us know. Thanks. ..Beta.

	06-07-2003 08:09									#182
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

6gpt... That doesn't sound like a bad idea if it gets them out of Estonia faster.

	06-07-2003 10:51									#183
	Support Apolyton

Sent to Beta.

quote: Hello Beta. I am involved officially again. I am some new fangled Foreign Affairs spook. You sent a message to Nathan that we did not get prior to the playing of your turn. Could you do me a favour? Could you cc me with messages? That would be good, then there would be two of us at GS who could respond. Also, are you available to chat anytime soon? I would like us to bring each other up to speed on plans and outlooks.

	07-07-2003 00:13									#184
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Received by Beta.

quote: Hi nye. I have sent the messages previously sent to Nathan on to you - see the following PM's. Theya re pretty self-explanatory. I played the last turn without a response - but we are at the point where we need answers on both items. This could be dragged out for the full 18 turns, or we can do it relatively quickly so both civs can moe on - (yes - us more than you. ) And yup - a chat would be good. I am around most evenings (edt), Let me knwo. Have a good one ... Beta.

	07-07-2003 00:14									#185
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Sent to Beta.

quote: Hi again Unfortunately, a chat for me this evening will be difficult. I may be able to squeeze in tonight around 8.30 my time (Mountain). If you are back on this afternoon, let me know. Just so you know. The 120 gold idea is meeting some success. We may want to make it a loan though, or perhaps a trade for WM after your move or something. re the Voice. I'm not positive, but I think we would like to capture it. I will let you know soonest we have a final decision. Could you tell me when you are expecting Engineering? nye

	07-07-2003 07:38									#186
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Received from Beta.

quote: At 8:30 pm mountain I will be sleeping. Busy day. Engineering in 5 turns. Understand about the Voice. But the cash would be very helpful - we could tie it into the engineering deal. We would prefer a grant - as recognition for claering out early - rather than a loan. We will need money to get things going in the new land. Also - we have moved our stack. No units in cities. But Harry's latest plan has a two stage take-over happening. So their current location lets them get to a handful of cities. They are fortified simply so I do not have to space bar past each of them every turn. Looking to hear back from you on the cash garnt matter. And maybe chat later. Cheers.... Beta.

	07-07-2003 16:14									#187
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Message to Beta:

quote: Sorry about not keeping up with contact better. I've been burning the candle at both ends a bit too much between AU 402 and work, and haven't had much diplomatic energy lately. (Playing SP doesn't require quite the same level of energy and thought that dealing with humans does. ) There's still a bit of division over whether to give you that much gold when your leaving earlier would probably benefit you about as much as it does us. I think we'd have a pretty clear consensus if you would be willing to give us a map of your new home so our cartographers can fill in a gap or two in their knowledge. Otherwise, NYE and I can still probably push it through but some team members won't be very happy about it. Before we send the gold, though, we'd like to doublecheck your evacuation plan to make sure it's going to work properly. In particular, we want to make sure the city your capital is supposed to jump to is big enough that the jump will work correctly. (Am I remembering correctly that the plan is for you to give us Wittlich City before we take over The Voice, since Wittlich is big enough that it would become your new capital if the jump happens without shrinking it a lot?) Once again, best wishes for success in your new home. Nathan

	10-07-2003 06:35									#188
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Received from Beta.

quote: Alternate proposal - 7 Points - By HarryH. Hi nye - Harry has come up with an alternate proposal and his logic is explained at the end. Would this be acceptable? quote: I propose this: 1. Vox 126. Vox gifts Miller Town and Engineering to GS, accepted. Vox moves all units adjacent to Harry's Hideout. 2. GS 127. GS accepts Miller Town and tech. Declares war. Occupies The Voice. (Voxian capital moves to new city on Legos Minor.) GS offers peace and the gold received from the Vox treasury when Voice was conquered, accepted. 3. Vox 127. Accepts peace. Moves all units next to HH into the city. Vox gifts HH to GS, accepted. 4. GS 128. GS accepts HH. (All Vox units in HH jump to new capital). 5. Vox 130. Vox trades Beta-by-the-Sea and Wittlich City to GS, unaccepted. 6. GS 131. GS adds 60 gold to the trade and accepts. 7. Vox 131. Vox accepts trade. The peace is final. In the GS 5 point plan plan we have only the city on Legos Minor at the start of each turn from 127 to 131 for a total of 5 city-turns. With my plan we start 127 with 4 cities and the other turns with 3 for a total of 16 city-turns. That is a difference of 44 gold just in unit maintenance costs (plus commerce, wealth, and tax collectors). GS still gets the Voice (with its granary and food tiles) and Miller Town just as quickly. With HH they will have a road network from Elipolis to Voice. Our units arrive in Lego Minor on the same turn in both plans. If necessary, we can move steps 5-7 up a turn. Let me know. Thanks! Beta. quote: notyoueither wrote on 07-07-2003 22:32: 1. Vox 126. vox gifts all cities on Stormia (Estonia) to GS, save the Voice, as well as Engineering. Accepted. 2. GS 127. GS accepts cities and tech. Declares war. occupies The Voice. GS offers peace and Miller Town back, accepted. 3. Vox 127. Accepts peace and Miller Town. Moves all forces into Miller Town. Offers Miller Town, unnaccepted. 4. GS 127. GS offers 60 gold and accepts. 5. Vox accepts 60 gold for Miller Town and all forces *blip* to their new capital. The peace is final. Its a wrap. unless you want your troops gone one turn sooner, in which case offer miller town accepted up to you If that works - we will do it. it would.

	11-07-2003 07:22									#189
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Chat with beta:

quote: Session Start: Thu Jul 10 19:24:53 2003 Session Ident: Beta [19:24] Session Ident: Beta (brucehynes@CPE0020182961a9-CM014310005616.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) [19:24] *Beta* Hiya [19:27] *notyoueither* allo [19:27] *notyoueither* i coukld have sworn you couldn't get by grog [19:28] *Beta* you are right. I just checked the map. [19:28] *Beta* On the east coast - yes - but then the galley would need two moves to move a load of units. [19:29] *notyoueither* anyhoo. i need a minute to check something [19:30] *Beta* n/p [19:35] *notyoueither* damn. i can't find the palace jump thread. [19:35] *notyoueither* at any rate, how do you guys know that your jump will go as planned based on HH's plan? [19:35] *Beta* All our cities will be size 1 except for the city on Legos Minor. [19:36] *notyoueither* emmm, do you know that foreign citizens only count 1/3rd, IIRC? [19:36] *notyoueither* meaning that you will jump to one of the estonian cities [19:36] *Beta* Harry ran some sims - not sure if that was considered. [19:37] *Beta* ie - 1 vs 2/3 [19:37] *notyoueither* yes. a bit of a problem. i wish i could find that thread [19:37] *Beta* was it in in the strat forum [19:38] *notyoueither* i am looking. [19:38] *notyoueither* however, that is why i suggested all of your citites save the Voice. [19:38] *notyoueither* that way nothing can happen but the desired result [19:39] *notyoueither* we have a solution to your gold and upkeep problem, btw [19:39] *Beta* whats' that? [19:39] *notyoueither* revolt. [19:39] *notyoueither* zero maintenance [19:39] *Beta* we are planning on that. [19:40] *notyoueither* cool [19:40] *notyoueither* so what is the problem, then? [19:40] *Beta* But we figure that will only cover 2, max 3 turns. [19:40] *notyoueither* revolt again. [19:40] *Beta* [19:40] *Beta* Are you French? [19:40] *notyoueither* the key is, the turns it takes you to get the settlers fanned out [19:40] *Beta* hehe [19:41] *notyoueither* hehe. actually, my father is [19:41] *notyoueither* quebecuois [19:41] *Beta* bntw - I just checked the save and the two citizens in our soon to be capitol are both Vox Controli. Any thoughts. [19:42] *notyoueither* what? how? [19:42] *notyoueither* gifting transfers nationality? [19:42] *Beta* It's a fact. [19:42] *Beta* And both are content. [19:42] *notyoueither* ok. still, the gold problem is solved by revolt. yes? [19:43] *Beta* yes - to a certain degree. [19:43] *notyoueither* we are having a hard time seeing the need for more delay [19:43] *Beta* brb - my wife is home with a colleague. Give me 5. [19:43] *notyoueither* np [19:47] *Beta* back [19:47] *notyoueither* k [19:48] *Beta* nye - you would do me a bif favor if you would just say - no Beta - the original plan stands. [19:48] *Beta* big [19:48] *Beta* [19:48] *notyoueither* ok. we have already voted on and accepted the original plan. [19:49] *notyoueither* so, the answer at this point is no [19:49] *Beta* Great - and you do not want to change it - right? [19:49] *notyoueither* correct. the 5 points, with the one edit has been passed by the storm [19:50] *notyoueither* the one eidt is the error in the turn number for poin t5 [19:50] *Beta* Okey dokey. I just wished some of Vox's team members had been this creative earlier in our history. [19:50] *notyoueither* heh [19:50] *Beta* Yup - and we have fixed that. [19:50] *notyoueither* it is still in the message you sent to me. [19:51] *notyoueither* i will send you another copy, marked as ratified by gs [19:51] *notyoueither* if you could return it as ratified by vox, it would be appreciated [19:51] *Beta* Yes - but we had noted it in the earlier chat - and I informed Vox of the change, [19:51] *Beta* Ok - will do. [19:51] *notyoueither* will send to you as soon as we are done here [19:52] *notyoueither* btw, vox accepts the 5 points? [19:52] *Beta* Yes. [19:52] *notyoueither* cool [19:52] *Beta* btw - a few eyebrows went up over Shiber's misplaced thread. [19:53] *notyoueither* looking forward to turns 126 through 128 [19:53] *notyoueither* Shiber's? [19:53] *Beta* It reminded us of my similar slip up at the start of the war. [19:53] *notyoueither* what about it? [19:53] *notyoueither* a [19:53] *notyoueither* hhh [19:54] *Beta* And .. [19:54] *notyoueither* it seems we are cursed [19:54] *notyoueither* go on [19:54] *Beta* what's you have had devious plans yourself, you sort of keep looking over your shoulder. [19:54] *Beta* one you have had [19:54] *notyoueither* heh, yes [19:55] *Beta* ack - once you have had [19:55] *notyoueither* nathan did similar once too [19:55] *Beta* Why do you say that you are cursed? [19:55] *notyoueither* and deepo just posted something intended for the private forum in the turn thread! [19:55] *notyoueither* quick edits in both cases [19:56] *notyoueither* but still... [19:56] *notyoueither* that makes 3 for us [19:56] *Beta* hehe - oh I saw DeepO's - I was wondering about that. [19:56] *notyoueither* i think we are winning [19:56] *notyoueither* if that is the measure [19:56] *Beta* Yes - mine was not too serious - as we made our public announcement on our same turn. [19:57] *Beta* Yes - it would appear so. [19:57] *notyoueither* i'm sure that the situation of the violets will not be too damaging to us. [19:58] *Beta* The violets? [19:58] *notyoueither* what i posted in the thread [19:58] *Beta* Oh - haven't been there yet. [19:58] *Beta* Ok - so back to the plan. [19:59] *notyoueither* yes. [19:59] *Beta* We are finishing turn 124. [19:59] *notyoueither* ok [20:00] *Beta* ne sec [20:00] *notyoueither* k [20:01] *Beta* Yes - we are right on for timing. In two turns - we gift the cities and engineering. [20:01] *notyoueither* yes [20:01] *notyoueither* you have wittlich clear by then? [20:06] *Beta* back - sorry about that. [20:06] *Beta* yes - all clear. [20:06] *notyoueither* np. ok. you have a turn to do. i should leave you to it. [20:07] *Beta* OK - so I will send the 5 point agreement - with the one date correction - back to you ratifeied by Vox. [20:07] *notyoueither* yes. i will go send it to you now. [20:07] *Beta* OK - thanks nye. Anything comes up - let me know. [20:08] *notyoueither* ok [20:08] *notyoueither* bye [20:08] *Beta* Cheers! [20:08] *notyoueither* oh. and good luck over there. [20:08] No such nick/channel Session Close: Thu Jul 10 20:08:34 2003

	11-07-2003 07:27									#190
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sent to Beta.

quote: quote: 1. Vox 126. Vox gifts all cities on Stormia (Estonia) to GS, save the Voice, as well as Engineering. Accepted. All cities include Wittlich City, Miller Town, Beta-by-the-Sea, and Harry's Hideout. 2. GS 127. GS accepts cities and tech. Declares war, occupies The Voice. GS offers peace, Miller Town and any gold captured from the Voice back, accepted. 3. Vox 127. Vox accepts peace and Miller Town. Moves all forces into Miller Town. Offers Miller Town, unnaccepted. 4. GS 128. GS offers 60 gold and accepts. 5. Vox 128. Vox accepts 60 gold for Miller Town and all forces *blip* to their new capital. The peace is final. Ratified by Gathering Storm ______ by Vox Controli Here it is, Beta. Just fill in your ratification and return to me. Added two bits to cut a loop hole and to give you your gold back from the capture of the Voice.

	11-07-2003 11:28									#191
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Received from Beta.

quote: notyoueither wrote on 10-07-2003 22:20: quote: 1. Vox 126. Vox gifts all cities on Stormia (Estonia) to GS, save the Voice, as well as Engineering. Accepted. All cities include Wittlich City, Miller Town, Beta-by-the-Sea, and Harry's Hideout. 2. GS 127. GS accepts cities and tech. Declares war, occupies The Voice. GS offers peace, Miller Town and any gold captured from the Voice back, accepted. 3. Vox 127. Vox accepts peace and Miller Town. Moves all forces into Miller Town. Offers Miller Town, unnaccepted. 4. GS 128. GS offers 60 gold and accepts. 5. Vox 128. Vox accepts 60 gold for Miller Town and all forces *blip* to their new capital. The peace is final. Ratified by Gathering Storm Ratified by Vox Controli With the understanding that we could and probably will go a turn earlier by accepting the Miller Town transfer. Thank you. ... Beta.

	22-07-2003 10:48									#192
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

To beta.

quote: Peace at last Greetings. Finally, peace can be permanent between us. Miller Town was offered, unaccepted. We put 60 gold on the table and sent it back, accepted. Good luck in your new homes. nye