 |
| |
|
|
ManicStarSeed
|
 |
of my banana plantation
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
|
|
This is the Ambassador's office for Vox Controli.
POST NO REPLIES
I indend on using this thread as a record of all of our dealings with Vox Controli (quoted PMS). Let us not clutter it with discussion.
This is a change from the origuinal post, but I now realize that this thread should not get cluttered.
If anybody wants to direct some specific question or issue to Vox, please post a new thread for team discussion or PM me or the current Vox ambassador.
Re: Greetings from Gathering Storm
quote:
ManicStarSeed wrote on 16-12-2002 02:55:
Greetings Ambasador Betahound. I, ManicStarSeed want to extend good wishes from Gathering Storm. Feel free to contact me via PM regarding anything you wish to discuss. If you have any questions you want me to direct to the team, please do not hesitate to ask. I expect to be able to respond (at least with a confirmation of receipt) with in 24 hours. If you do not here from me within 24 hours RL has taken over and Meshelic, our Foreign Minister should be able to help you.
Now for business..
I do have a question for you.
Can I post (verbatum) the contents of your PMs to me back to the Gathering Storm private forum? It will make our internal discussion run more smoothly. I would gladly extend the same courtisy (sp)
Again Greetings and good gaming
ManicStarSeed (Mss)
|
quote:
Dear Ambassador StarSeed, or now that the formalities are over with, and we are sharing this fine bottle of wine, may I call you Manic? And please, Beta is fine with me.
My gratitude for your timely response. In answer to your question, yes, please, by all means, share my message with your people. Ignorance creates fear - knowledge creates understanding and friendship.
I look forward to our continued co-operation. I too find PM the most convenient method of communication. Here, let me fill your glass.
Cheers (clinking of glasses). Till next we talk.
BetaHound, VFA, Vox Controli
|
I then offered some of our fine champaign and we got saucy (for the record).
MSS
Last edited by ManicStarSeed on 03-01-2003 at 11:33
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ManicStarSeed
|
|
of my banana plantation
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
|
|
Here is what we sent to Vox once initial in-game contact has occured. Thank you everybody for quickly putting this together and critiquing it and Dominae for the final draft.
quote:
Greetings again friend BetaHound and Vox Controli:
We hope your journey has been going well. Your warriors appear well-trained, well-fed and happy (not to mention quiet muscular!), so we can only assume your nation is at least as glorious as ours, if not more. We are therefore pleased to have contacted you at the beginning of this new era. Who knows what the future will hold? Let us become masters of our own fates and discuss our future relationship.
As an act of good faith, we ask that Vox Controli cease southern exploration for the duration of these negotiations; Gathering Storm will do the same in turn for the northern direction.
Gathering Storm has put together several proposals and we would appreciate your open consideration of them. Please feel free to counter-offer where you see fit. Our goal is to negotiate and make deals mutually beneficial. We will seriously consider any additional deal you bring to the table. The following is a list of our proposals:
1. Temporarily cease North/South exploration as described above. This act of good faith would be the basis for any future negotations.
2. Begin discussion of a potential tech-trading parternship between our two teams. Tech trading would effectively double our respective research rates, ensuring a tech advantage on the world scene.
3. Exchange information regarding luxuries each of us has discovered North and South of the isthmus (South for us, North for you). Connecting our empires and trading luxuries promises obvious economic advantages.
4. Simultaneously reveal to each other either: 1) whether or not we have contacted another team, or further 2) precisely which other team(s) we have already contacted. Our future plans depend critically on who our neighbors are, so obtaining this information early should prove useful to both of us.
5. Discuss what to do about the chokepoint/isthmus with regards to unit movement. The isthmus is clear and important landmark, and reaching an understanding as to its use would reduce early tensions between our teams.
We hope to hear from you in the very near future; please contact us before your next turn, or before the turn after that at the very latest. We apologize if requesting such a quick response causes any inconvenience, but time is of the essence.
Sincerely,
ManicStarSeed and Gathering Storm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ManicStarSeed
|
|
of my banana plantation
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
|
|
Well our friends from Vox have finally responded. Here are the responses we have recieved to date..
quote:
Dear ManicStarSeed.
I trust this letter finds you and your nation in the best of health.
Thank-you for your recent correspondence. Yes, these are exciting times when civilizations first meet. And thank-you as well for your list of proposals. You should be aware that they are under active deliberation as I speak, in order that we may respond with one voice.
We fully appreciate your concerns regarding the need for haste in reaching our conclusions. But these are meaty - er, I did not mean to offend any vegans in your party. Let me rephrase. These are weighty issues for fledgling civilizations such as ours. You have my assurance that we will expedite our deliberations to the greatest extent possible.
Given that our Warriors have met in the great unknown, and you have made Willy's aquaintance, I could not resist the temptation to leaf through the one book, and share with you one of my favorite sectons. It is, appropriately enough, from the Book of Warriors.
Warriors I, Verses 1 to 6.
1. And so it came to be that the people of Vox Controli founded the capitol, "The Voice".
2. And the Voice begat warriors.
3. The Voice begat Willy. The Voice begat Tim. The Voice begat Thadeus.
4. And Willy went out of The Voice, and into the wilderness.
5. And the shadows receded, and light shone upon the land.
6. And the people of Vox Controli cried out in unison and joy.
Thus ends the reading.
Very uplifting, isn't it. I get a tingle everytime I read it. Makes me almost wish that I had taken up a different line of work. Sigh - the life of a bureaucrat - well you understand.
My dear sir, I must make my leave. I wish you well. I will make every endeavour to get back to you very shortly.
Sincerest regards,
BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
|
From Eli
quote:
Umm.. I'm not Beta. 
|
and ...
Dissident said
quote:
Yes we did get your PM's and are looking over them right now. We look forward to working together as great nations.
|
I will reply with some cordial role play and I will post it next.
Mss
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ManicStarSeed
|
|
of my banana plantation
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
|
|
Here is our reply:
I wanted to push the point of the warriors , but I figured not yet. We do not want to push too hard or too soon..
Mss
quote:
Ambassador BeatHound:
Why yes thank you for asking, we are doing well, although we do miss our former leader (NYE) whom has be absorbed by this thing called RL. Suffice to say the nation is doing well despite this brief time in mourning.
Thank you for sharing that fine piece of culture, what do you call it? I hope that, together we can do some more of...well, whatever it is you call it, about the triumphs that our two nations achieve against what can be a hostile bob.
Again we eagerly await your relpies to our previous envoy. Let me know if you have any questions so that we can get them answered.
Warm Regards;
ManicStarSeed and Gathering Storm
PS. Please enjoy these few bottles of this champaign, Share it with the team and loved ones as a token of our good will. It is from 3050 BC, a very fine year for champaign, if I may say so.
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ManicStarSeed
|
|
of my banana plantation
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by nbarclay
I hope you don't mind my being picky about linguistic issues, but...
The word you want is champagne. Champaign is in fact a word (to my surprise), but it means something completely different ("an expanse of level open country" according to merriamwebster.com).
Also, unless there's another meaning merriamwebster.com didn't cover, an envoy is a messenger, not a message. So "previous envoy" is not a correct usage in this case.
Nathan |
DOH Lost my reply...
Here it is again,...
No I do not mind, really.
I agree with you for doing it, but... I MEANT Envoy. The message was not sent by itself, it had to have the messenger. The pigeon could not carry both the message and the champagne and do you think a bureaucrat is gonna get of his fat arse and trapes(sp) hundreds of miles north to deliver this message? I think not.
Anyway, your comments are welcome.
I have edited the top post to POST NO REPLIES as we want to keep this uncluttered for the VOX diplomatic record. Post all discussion, flames and critiques in other (more approprate) threads. This is a change, but a good one I think.
Mss
|
|
| |
|
|
|
ManicStarSeed
|
|
of my banana plantation
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
|
|
Here is our first answer from VOX. I have a turnchat to get to so I am just passing this through for now with out looking at it. discuss and advise in This Thread
quote:
Dear ManicStarSeed - esteemed Foreign Affairs Minister of Gathering Storm.
Greetings again, sir. I am pleased to announce that our deliberations have been completed, and I have been directed by the One Voice to reply as follows:
1. Regarding the question of further exploration, we feel that at this early stage of our existence, it is important to both our civilizations to learn more about the world around us. We of Vox Controli recognize your right to expand your horizons. We humbly request that you recognize ours.
However, this being said, we also clearly recognize your sovereignty over your lands. We promise to fully respect the borders of your civilization, and further promise to commit no acts of aggression in any way, shape, or form.
2. Regarding tech trading, we too have discussed amongst ourselves the wonderful opportunities this presents. We would like to discuss potential deals. Perhaps if you could put on the table what you are thinking. We both know that Vox Controli has bronze working, that Gathering Storm has ceremonial burial, and that we both have masonry. After that, when it comes to trading, well to quote the One Book, Dissidents 19, verse 8, "The sky's the limit".
3. Regarding luxuries, yes we have them. And we assume that you have them as well. But at present there is no way of trading them between our civilizations. In fact, our workers are still pre-occupied with connecting these luxuries to our cities. Perhaps when trading becomes a distinct possibility we should discuss further.
4. Regarding contact with other civilizations, yes, we have met another civilization. We are currently discussing with them similar issues as you have raised. However, they have asked that we keep their identity, and the nature of our discussions confidential. I'm sure that you, as an equally honorable civilization, can understand our position here.
5. Regarding the isthmus - well - I have to tell you Manic - we are genuinely surprised as to how much you know about the world. This reinforces my earlier point, in that we would like to explore the world as well to learn as much about it as your wise adventurers.
That point aside, I also appreciate what you have said. The isthmus should be discussed.
I trust our response will find favor with your leaders and your people. We are committed tp peaceful co-existence on this continent of ours. Speaking of which, and I hope you do not think us too presumptuous, but we have named the landmass Estonia, given its somewhat eastern location. We have named the land north of the isthmus North Estonia, and the land south of it, South Estonia. I trust this does not offend your historians and scholars.
I look forward to further discussions to build upon this foundation of understanding we have created.
With regards and sincerity,
BetaHound
Voice Of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
 |
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Here's a message I just sent to Vox regarding their blocking our exploration:
quote:
Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,
Since you have been so kind as to share with us passages from the One Book, we would like to share with you a passage from the Book of the Storm, specifically from Wisdom 3:1-3.
“Blessed are they who treat others as they would wish to be treated, for their rewards are respect and trust all the days of their lives.
But cursed are the hypocrites who demand from others that which they will not give themselves,
For the seeds of anger and distrust they sow may flower into the fruit of their destruction.”
Since word came back of Thadeus's blocking the way to North Estonia, questions have arisen among our people concerning whether or not the people of Vox Controli share such a belief. You have made it clear in words that you regard a mutual right of exploration as important, yet at first glance, Thadeus's fortified position seems to contradict those words.
Because of your clear statement, we would like to think that Thadeus is there merely to establish your claim to that piece of land, and that once we agree to respect your claim (which we hereby do), he will be willing to move aside long enough for our explorers to pass through. That way, both your sovereignty over a key strategic location and our right to explore will be respected.
But some are concerned that your words regarding the importance of a right to explore may not have been as sincere as they seemed, and that Thadeus's job may include denying us in practice the very right that you seemed to regard as so important in theory. These suspicions have even spurred some to go so far as to demand a death sentence for any "spies" (to use their word) who approach our lands without permission. Clearly, this situation is not ideal for promoting the kind of peaceful and mutually beneficial relationship that we strongly desire, and we hope that you will soon show us that these people's concern was unwarranted. Grog is eager to continue his exploration unimpeded.
Sincerely,
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist of Gathering Storm
(ManicStarSeed is out of his office at the moment, and given the importance of a quick resolution to this matter, I've been authorized to send this post on behalf of the team.) |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
I sent this trade proposal to BetaHound, Eli, Dissident, and Jon Miller. (I noticed when pasting the message here that the "greetings" line got lost somewhere along the line; it's likely missing from the copies I sent them too.)
quote:
ManicStarSeed is once again out of his office at an important time, so the task of drafting a diplomatic message once again falls to me. In any case, the matter before me today is most definitely an economic one.
It occurs to me that in the heat of our concern over the exploration situation, we failed to reciprocate regarding contact information. I apologize most humbly for that oversight. As of this time, we have not been as fortunate as you in our attempts to contact other nations, and yours are the only people we have had the fortune of meeting.
In the interest of mutual prosperity, we would like to propose an exchange of knowledge. We know that you have knowledge of the working of bronze, and assume that you have been working hard to gain knowledge of how to work iron as well. It will probably not surprise you to learn that the knowledge of wheels has been a major priority in our lands. We now face a dispute in which many of our people want to develop an alphabet in order to learn how to write, but others have a misguided fear that you might use your knowledge of bronze and iron in order to attack us and feel a need to gain the same knowledge so that we could better defend ourselves.
Wisdom dictates that the two of us should not waste time duplicating our research. There are almost certainly other peoples elsewhere in the world, and if they cooperate and we do not, the situation when we and they meet could be quite unpleasant. Rather than waste time on a duplication of effort, it occurs to us that if we could arrange to obtain the defensive knowledge we need from you, we could satisfy the paranoid among us without jeopardizing our efforts toward more peaceful pursuits.
Toward that end, we would like to propose a two-stage exchange of knowledge. In the first stage, we would exchange our knowledge of wheels for your knowledge of bronze. In the second, you would agree that once we finish developing our alphabet, you will exchange your knowledge of iron for our knowledge of it. (We assure you that the alphabet will be developed with your language in mind as much as ours.) When those two stages are put together, we feel that the research effort on each side will be equal. But as a sign of trust and friendship, we are offering the more difficult knowledge in the first phase, and are offering the agreement even knowing that you will likely be able to profit from selling or trading the knowledge to the other nation you have made contact with.
Unfortunately, time for our decision is extremely short. Unless your answer arrives quickly [by our next turn], we will have to commit to a plan without knowledge of your answer, and a glorious opportunity may be lost.
By the way, I might note that some underling held up our last messenger for a long while before allowing him in to see Ambassador BetaHound. We would really appreciate it if you would give instructions to allow our emissaries to deliver their messages more quickly. [In non-roleplay terms, it would be useful if he'd turn automatic notification of new PMs on.] It is most frustrating for our messengers when they know that your ambassador is in his office but are not permitted to deliver an important message to him. Worse, there is a risk that an important opportunity may be lost simply because a message does not arrive in time.
Sincerely,
The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Message received from BetaHound:
quote:
Your Letters and Our Discussions
ManicStarSeed and Nathan Barclay of Gathering Storm
Greetings, dear sirs. Well, your previous note has certainly created a 'storm' of discussion at our end. (Please pardon my play on words. I do not mean to make light of such weighty issues.) And I must admit, your latest letter has calmed the waters somewhat.
Now, regarding the matter of Thadeus and his position on the isthmus - well, I will be honest with you - this has generated much debate within our civilization. Please keep this quiet, we of the One Voice are often, how shall I put it, not embarassed, but rather self-conscious about our own internal discussions. As you know, we like to speak with One Voice, as is our law and our custom, and yet occasionally the way of the One Voice and our underpinnings of a free and democratic nation grate on one another. This is one of those times. So, I will need to get back to you on this point.
Some of the words you used in your recent correspondence are, frankly, alarming - 'hypocrites, distrust, destruction, and spies?' This has added to the tension surrounding our discussions. You can clearly see the dilemma we are in regarding the isthmus. You state that you respect our claim to the land in question, but then veil it in subtle threats. We did not approach you in this manner, and therefore it has caught us somewhat surprised.
While the debate continues at home regarding the isthmus - and believe me - it won't take much longer - as stern as the One Voice of the controller can be, that is nothing compared to the bite of the Head of the Senate - you may have heard his name - jon miller. He is getting quite impatient with the internal debate, and may invoke closure soon. So, I may be back to you quicker than you can say - 'One Voice, To Victory'. Sorry, bit of Vox humor there.
As I was saying, while the debate continues, I would like to reiterate a couple of key points from my previous letter. Those being that we will respect your borders and promise we will commit no acts of aggression against your nation. We are also willing to engage in discussions regarding technology trades, the exact point you raised in your more recent - and if I may add - more peaceful letter.
(As a side note, if schizophrenia is a common problem in your society, we may be able to assist. Our physicians have made great strides in dealing with such matters here at home. With a nation which endeavours to speak with one voice, we really didn't have much choice.)
Your proposals regarding tech trading are indeed intriguing. We also appreciate the time constraints involved at your end. There is an emergency discussion session planned for this evening - right after the isthmus debate - to determine our position.
And, perhaps the best news of all, we have engaged our other neighbours in a discussion regarding the possibility of sharing contact information. I hope to be back to you on this one shortly. They may be reluctant, but I like to think that I can be persuasive, and make them see the benefits of such a multi-civilization consordium.
So my dear sirs, please bear with us on these matter. I will be back to you shortly. My sincerest regards to you, your leaders, and the people of your fine nation.
Yours truly,
BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Message Sent:
quote:
[Sent to BetaHound with additional copies to Eli, Dissident, and Jon Miller just to make sure it gets through in a timely manner.]
Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,
I did not mean to cause offense in my earlier message (and please keep in mind that I am an economist and not a diplomat by profession) but rather to make sure you recognized the seriousness of our concerns. Imagine yourselves in our position. A nation just told you that they respected your right to explore and hoped that you would respect theirs. Then, when your explorers actually attempted to explore their side of the continent, they found their path blocked by a unit fortified in such a way that no one could pass. Would not your first impression be that their claim to respect your right to explore was, or at least had the appearance of being, deceptive and hypocritical? And if they did not prove trustworthy when claiming to respect your right to explore, would that not cause you to question, at least a little, how trustworthy they were regarding other matters? Can you honestly say that your reaction would have been so very different from ours (except, perhaps, in how skilled your diplomats would have been in expressing your concerns)?
As we said in our earlier message, we hoped (as we still hope) that these concerns are unwarranted. But they do still exist. Search as we may, we can find no truly honorable basis for you to continue your explorations south toward us while blocking us from further exploration in your direction (although if you have an explanation that has somehow eluded us, we would love to hear it).
Nonetheless, as time passed, we decided that our desire for a peaceful and mutually beneficial relationship with your people outweighed those concerns. Hence, we set them aside in order to propose a trade that would benefit us both. That does not mean that tensions over the earlier issue have abated completely, but merely that more important matters are at stake. And we have chosen not to let an annoyance (especially one that we still hope can be resolved) get in the way of those weightier matters. Our desire is for mutual prosperity so that when our nations meet the more distant nations that legend says exist, we and not they will have the advantage.
Sincerely,
The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Diplomatic Breakthrough!
BetaHound sent the following message (which I'm splitting into multiple parts just as he did).
quote:
ManicStarSeed and Nathan Barclay of Gathering Storm.
After much deliberation - some would say too much - the wise Controller of Vox Controli - has reached a decision on many of the issues before us. I appreciate the blanket of tension that our indecision has cast over Estonia. Believe me, it has not been pleasant on the home front either. I would say you could cut the tension with a knife, but that by itself sounds aggressive. Which brings me to the response I have been authorized to relay to you, and the leaders of Gathering Storm.
I am pleased, nay honoured, to say that the collective wisdom of Vox sees the benefits of peaceful co-existance. I will be honest with you - I was not unaware of the problems and threat being posed by our warriors southern trek. Particularly given our entrenched position on the isthmus.
Therefore, as per your earlier request, our two explorers in the south have been ordered to halt all southern movement, and to pull-back to the mountains to their north. We have called these mountains the Sierra Centralis.
We have no desire, nor as many at home have suggested, any right, to expand or explore into your territory. We fully acknowledge your present territorial rights, as well as the right to future expansion. It is understood that we will need to further discuss this matter, given that at some time in the future, the borders of our civilizations will be nearer than they are now.
We, however, claim territorial right to the isthmus. In a previous letter you essentially acknowledged the legitimacy of such a claim. Both you and we appreciate the significance of the isthmus. But more importantly to us, it is a planned city site. And in the near future. Therefore, we would not want your warrior to be trapped in North Estonia, with no way out. Nor do we want him to wander into our territory. We have stated that we will not explore or approach your lands, so with all due respect, we feel that this should apply to you as well. The problem is that as soon as he was through the isthmus, he would be in Vox territory.
So, we will try another alternative, and in good faith, provide the information in another way. In the absence of the ability to share detailed territory maps, I will describe North Estonia for you. I will use a measurement which you may be familiar with - if not we have attached detailed specifications to assist you.
North Estonia is not a big landmass. It is some six tiles north to south and four tiles from east to west. It is more than half covered by plains, with a small desert. There are numerous hills and mountains. Unfortunately there are no rivers. As previously discussed, there are luxury resources available to us. We have two cities in North Estonia - our capitol - The Voice, and a nearby and newer city called Miller town - named after the Head of the Senate, jon miller, who I mentioned in my last letter. And lastly, it connects to another landmass to the east.
end of part 1 - part 2 follows on a separate camel.
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
quote:
part 2 of message.
I trust this helps your cartographers, and we sincerely hope you understand our position regarding the isthmus. Given that we have 'gone out on a limb' so to speak, in providing this information, combined with the fact that we have stopped our southward exploration, it would be seen as a sign of good faith if you could provide a similar description of your end of the continent.
More importantly, given our commitment to stopping all southerly exploration, and pulling our explorers back, it would be greatly appreciated if Gathering Storm could do the same. The Sierra Centralis seems to be both a convenient and fair geographical divide. We are not saying that it has to be the final demarcation line between our civilizations, just the agreed-upon line to which we both withdraw our explorers at this time. As I acknowledge above, further discussion regarding a more permanent border is required.
And I will once more express Vox Controli's stance of non-aggression. It is clear from both our words and our actions of this day that we are committed to peaceful relations with Gathering Storm.
The other issue on the table before us is the issue of trade of technologies. Alas, we got through the one discussion, but not the other. As I write this, there is both serious debate, and serious polling taking place within Vox. We will not take much longer - I can ensure you. But I felt it best that we resolve these other matters of territory as soon as possible, and not wait for a decision on technology trading. I will get back to you shortly on your recent proposals. However, I can add one additional piece of information. We do expect to acquire the knowledge of pottery in th enear future. Perhaps this is something else we would like to consider in our trading proposals.
It has been an exhausting week of internal and external discussions, I must admit. I, BetaHound, could sleep like a dog, if indeed, I had the time. Alas my dear sirs, the debate at home, and other foreign affairs matters beckon me.
I believe we are laying down an historic foundation of friendship with these early discussions. It has had its tensions, but we are both youthful civilizations, and I guess that is to be expected. I am optimistic about our future and the potential of peaceful co-existance on Estonia.
I wish you well, dear sirs, and look forward to your response.
Sincerely yours,
BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Message I sent back to them regarding the trade situation:
quote:
[Sent to BetaHound with copies to Dissident and Jon Miller]
Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,
I must emphasize that this message is from me personally as chief economist and sometimes de facto ambassador, not from all of Gathering Storm. Time is short, and I feel that I must act quickly (and somewhat independently) if I am to prevent an opportunity from slipping past. I can only hope that it is not already too late.
The thaw you have just brought in the tensions between our lands is very welcome indeed. But the tensions have already done significant damage to our trade proposal. When you seemingly rejected our trade proposal (even casting doubt on whether what we had to offer was possible), and also kept advancing Tim and Willy and brought in a worker to further block Grog's movement, that gave the militarists the upper hand in guiding our research. As a result, we started on Bronze Working instead of on Alphabet, which greatly complicates efforts to keep our trade proposal alive.
Nonetheless, I continue to regard it as foolish for us to duplicate research efforts when we have opportunities to follow separate paths and exchange our results. I am therefore requesting a brief halt in our research on Bronze Working (and I am not sure even a brief one will be acceptable to our other leaders; certainly anything more will not be) to provide a small amount of additional time to perhaps keep our offer alive. I can understand your need to discuss matters, but whatever window of opportunity might still be open will not remain open for long - at least not regarding this particular proposal.
In regard to your comments on pottery, our people are already making good use of such knowledge. I am having my messenger bring you a few small samples that may aid your research in some small way. We had thought that we might offer to trade you Pottery and The Wheel for Iron Working (if you have that knowledge) after we finished Bronze Working, but if you are very far along in your research, that too may be an opportunity lost due to tensions and poor communication.
In any case, I welcome this new era in our relationship and hope for a long and prosperous friendship between our peoples.
Sincerely,
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist of Gathering Storm |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Another message regarding the trade situation:
quote:
[Sent to BetaHound with copies to Dissident and Jon Miller.]
Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,
I have just barely managed to persuade Gathering Storm to delay our research for a single turn in order to keep our original trade proposal open. Note that for the deal to work, you must agree to both phases, The Wheel for Bronze Working and then Alphabet (once we get it) for Iron Working (and we need a message to that effect). Otherwise, the values of the research involved do not balance (if the Mystic Editor is to be believed). And even at equal values, we would be eating a loss of a turn's research into Bronze Working.
If you prefer some other arrangement, there are two other possibilities that occur to us. If your research on Pottery is only barely started, we could exchange Pottery and perhaps a small amount of gold for Bronze Working. Or we could continue our research into Bronze Working and then exchange Pottery and The Wheel for Iron Working (assuming you have that knowledge), allowing you to shift your efforts from Pottery to something else. Or if you have any other reasonable proposal, we would be interested to hear it.
Again, I must emphasize that any arrangement involving your trading Bronze Working to us must be finalized by the time we submit our next turn. Otherwise, we will have to resume our research and a trade will no longer seem worthwhile. I apologize for the pressure this places on your leaders, but you should feel the pressure I find myself facing just for requesting this delay!
Sincerely,
The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Response from Vox on the trade deal - a "yes" with strings attached:
quote:
Nathan Barclay of Gathering Storm,
Greetings my dear sir. My humble apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I acknowledge the pressures that have been placed on you and your leaders by our extended deliberations.
After considerable discussion - and I think you fully understand and appreciate the magnitude of these early decisions - I am pleased to inform you that I have been directed by our Controller to advise you, Gathering Storm, that the two-tiered technology trade, as previously outlined, is acceptable to Vox Controli.
To this end, we would, at the earliest possible moment the game allows, trade bronze working for the wheel. At a prescribed future date, we will trade iron working for alphabet. We acknowldge the need for the two-tiered trade to create equity in the overall beeker costs of the trades involved.
We do have one concern. In the first instance, we are trading a 'military' technology for another military technology, which in our opinion, is of lesser significance, to us, Vox Controli, of Persian lineage. In the second instance we are trading an even more powerful military technology for a peaceful technology. This way of looking at the two-tiered trade was the major stumbling block to its early approval here at home. We, of Vox Controli, are all certain of our own peaceful intentions. However, some of our senators are not so sure of yours. And this trade was seen by some as a major concession in strengthening your military position.
We therefore ask that this deal be taken in conjunction with the earlier proposals on peaceful co-existance on the continent, and the pre-requisite territorial moves, as outlined in my previous letter. One is dependent on the other.
We would also appreciate a "statement of peaceful intent" from Gathering Storm, given that we have stated our such intent several times now.
We also see the need to get past this early stumbling block our relationship has encountered. If we can work towards mutual trust and co-dependence, I feel that together, we will be better prepared to face the rest of the world. Gathering Storm had raised this point in an earlier correspondence. The position has merits, and I can see us both working towards such a goal.
In conclusion, I trust that we can do business as described above. I look forward to hearing from you, not only in regards to the technology trade, but with respect to the territorial matters discussed earlier. I offer my sincerest regards to you and the leaders of Gathering Storm.
Yours truly,
BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Our response to Vox's strings:
quote:
[To BetaHound; copies to Dissident, Eli, and Jon Miller]
Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,
I regret to inform you that I have contracted a disease known as "real life," and that my physicians will not permit me to put the time into this message and its related issues that I would really like to. I hope you can understand my situation.
I fear that if you want us to reach a consensus to commit to a permanent peace within the time available for this trade deal, you want the impossible. Your earlier actions have stirred up more than a little mistrust, resentment, and even anger among some of our leaders (indeed, probably among all of us to varying degrees), and those wounds will require a combination of time and positive experiences between our peoples before they can fully heal.
That said, however, we of Gathering Storm can guarantee you of two things. First, it is our great hope to avoid even the hint of warfare for a long time to come. We have far too much to do settling cities and building infrastructure to want to waste our resources fighting.
And second, our interest in obtaining Iron Working so early is purely defensive in nature. Were it not for defensive concerns, especially concerns about the power of your immortals, our focus would be entirely on peaceful lines of research. But you do have immortals (or at least the basic technology needed to build them), and in light of the recent tensions, we regard the ability to build swordsmen as an important counterweight.
(If you would feel more comfortable with some specific duration attached to our promise of peace, that could be arranged as long as the duration is reasonable and there are reasonable protections for each side's legitimate interests. But durations imply endings, and I much prefer to view this as merely a beginning.)
We should also point out that contrary to what some among you seem to think, your rejection of our proposal would make little difference in when we learn how to work iron. It is ultimately the peaceful technology, not the military one, that you would cause a major delay to if you reject this proposal. And in the process, you would pass over both a valuable economic opportunity and an opportunity to replace the recent tensions with a clear positive element in our relationship.
In regard to your request that we withdraw our warriors, we would like to propose a different idea. We have long valued the assurances Grog can provide that no Vox Controli army (aside from your two scouts) is anywhere near our territory. If you have any similar concerns regarding us, I imagine you would appreciate similar assurances from the eyes of your own units. We therefore propose that Grog remain where he is for the time being, and that you move Willy "9" and Tim "6-3" (using the Language of the Keys) from their positions as of when we took our turn. Slash can fall back to a less potentially threatening position. That would give each of us early warning should the other attempt a betrayal. (In the words of certain wise men, "Trust, but verify.") We further assure you that this arrangement puts Tim at least as close to our capital as Grog will be to yours, so the warning times on each side will be comparable. The lookouts on both sides would, of course, fall back as the two nations expand.
I know that this does not give you all of the assurances that you might have wanted, but I hope you can recognize that the the tensions caused by your recent actions will require some time to heal. We honestly feel that this trade proposal is in the interest of both our nations, and we hope you can recognize that mutual interest also.
We need to know whether these assurances are sufficient for you to accept our proposal, and we need to know quickly. Otherwise, the opportunity will be lost. (Please send Sir Ralph a copy of your response as well.)
Sincerely,
The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
I'd intended this to be a postscript, but PM length limits forced me to break it off into a separate message.
quote:
[To BetaHound; copies to Dissident, Eli, and Jon Miller.]
Greetings again, BetaHound and Vox Controli,
In regard to your requests concerning the geography of South Estonia and a few other issues, the trade situation, combined with my ongoing bout of "real life," has made it impossible for me to find the time to address them properly. I will do so as soon as I can, however, and I apologize for the delay.
Sincerely,
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist of Gathering Storm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
No reply yet from Vox as of this writing. I sent another message giving them the geographic info. I had to divide it in two parts due to the PM length limit, but I'm posting it here as one.
quote:
Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,
I did not think to say it in my earlier message, but thank you very much for the information you have provided us. As I watch events unfold in our councils, your new openness seems to be doing even more to undo the damage from our earlier tensions than I had hoped for. Indeed, Sir Ralph, our glorious leader, has gone from being one of our leading skeptics to being willing to trust that you will accept our trade proposal without waiting for an additional response from you. We can only hope that his faith will not be disappointed.
In regard to your interest in the geography of South Estonia, Tim is on the north end of what we call the Spinebreaker Mountains and Willy has entered what we call the Desert of Tears. Waters from the Spinebreaker Mountains come together to form a river we call the Flood of Tears, which borders the western edge of the desert. (By the way, we may someday be able to arrange an irrigation project to your lands if you are completely without fresh water for irrigation. Of course the scale of such a project is far beyond what would be practical until our nations are larger and more prosperous.)
South of the desert is a band of plains generally two tiles from north to south. Eye of the Storm is founded as the River of Tears enters this band, and has the mixed blessing of access to flood plains that may help it grow or die as the Generator of Fortune sees fit. Our second city, Hurricane, overlaps our capital next to where the river empties into the ocean. South of the plains, as the land narrows toward its southern tip, we have a region of grassland small enough that a single city could cover more than two thirds of it (although good use of coast can stretch its use farther).
On the western side of the continent, Tim has seen essentially all of the grasslands and forests that the area he is in has to offer. The rest is almost all hills, mountains, and a coastal desert, until a few tiles south of Willy’s latitude where the strip of plains reaches that coast. At its widest, the land stretches less than a tile west of what Tim has seen, and the land narrows to the south before reaching the band of plains.
We hope your cartographers can make good use of this description in developing at least a rough sketch of South Estonia. It is only too bad they do not yet have the skill to develop true maps.
Speaking of cartography, there is still an area of the continent that we have been left in the dark regarding. Just as North Estonia and South Estonia are separated by an isthmus and yet are, in a sense, part of the same continent, it would seem that so too is another land that you say is connected to North Estonia. We would greatly appreciate whatever information you can provide about that land, and would find it difficult to determine what should be regarded as fair borders without knowing more about that region.
There is one other matter that is puzzling our cartographers (and the rest of us too, for that matter). You referred in your message to the “Sierra Centralis.” Your only explanation of that term was as the mountains to your explorers’ north. Some think you may be referring to the northern end of what we call the Spinebreaker Mountains (of which even the northernmost ridge is closer to our capital than to yours), while others think you are referring to other mountains farther north. If you would clarify exactly which mountains you are referring to, it would be appreciated.
By the way, although the making of full maps is beyond us, our cartographers do have sufficient skill to make a more limited form of map that for some reason they call a “minimap.” (Perhaps they do so because it offers only minimal information compared with the kinds of maps they would truly like to be able to make.) If your cartographers have a similar ability, we might be able to arrange an exchange of such minimaps to gain a more complete picture of the continent than words alone can provide.
Sincerely,
The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Message sent to make sure we have an explicit agreement with Vox regarding confidentiality:
quote:
Greetings yet again, BetaHound and Vox Controli,
It occurs to me that in our haste to address important issues, we may not have thought to explicitly request that our discussions with you and the information we disclose be kept in the strictest confidence. We would hope that the need for such discretion goes without saying, but we say it anyhow just to make sure there are no misunderstandings. We will, of course, treat information we receive from you as equally confidential.
We hope that our not having heard from you recently is merely a sign that you are busy and not a sign of accident or ill health, and look forward to hearing from you again.
Sincerely,
The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Here's the latest form Vox.
quote:
Dear Nathan Barclay of Gathering Storm - my reasons for not replying quickly are several - first - you take several letters to say what you should in one (Beta is smiling here), second - there is this thing called football, which interests me, third, there has been much debate at home as your letters have come in, and fourth and last but not certainly not least - my wife poured us a bath, and two glasses of wine. Priorities my dear sir. I'm sure you understand.
From what I can see - the deal is still on. The tensions still run high at home. Many do not trust you, as you say you do not trust us. But we are getting beyond that. I will respond in more detail shortly. After the bath and wine, and a lovely dinner, I am somewhat obligated to watch a show on the Home and Garden Television Channel - pray tell what can that be.
I will be in touch shortly. Yours truly, Beta. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sir Ralph
|
 |
Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:24
|
|
quote:
Dear Nathan - and Sir Ralph of GS.
Greetings dear sirs. Thank you for your plethora of recent correspondence. It is much appreciated, and has kept our translators and analysts, to say nothing of myself, quite busy.
But, to cut to the chase. We have agreed to the tech trade, and both phases of it. The first phase should be concluded shortly. We see this as a strong fundamental building block to peace, given that we are willing to relinquish our early military advantage - as discussed in my previous letter.
We are not overly happy about the warrior arrangement. Thud ends up being much closer to our core of civilization than our warriors are to yours. That being said, we are willing to go along with it in the short term, as a demonstration of our good will. If you leave Thud on the hill, he will be able to observe all comings and goings from North Estonia and should bring you the level of comfort about our peaceful intentions that you feel you need. We would have been happier with the Sierra Centralis - and to clarify that point - that is the range of mountains that Willy and Tim, our two most southern warriors, are presently in. As agreed, and as suggested by you, they will pull back to positions in this mountain range.
There were issues of geography that need to be addressed as well, and they will be. In that regards, we thank you for your recent description of your lands.
But, to be honest, it is late. I am tired - and my bed beckons. I hope you understand.
To our continued and constructive relations...
Yours truly,
BetaHound
VFA, Vox Controli
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
nbarclay
|
|
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:24
|
|
Response on the confidentiality issue:
quote:
Dear Sir - I am trying to catch up on my correspondence. I seem to have overlooked this letter - and, well, hmm, some others. You see, we of Vox Controli like the number one. Why write several letters, when One will suffice? And you believe that from a diplomat - sorry, Foreign Affairs humor - and poor humor at that - here let's uncork a bottle from the cellar and have a drink.
Which brings us to business. Yes. As you have asked, we will keep the discussions and the business between us confidential, until such time as you tell us it is acceptable to share such information. I think you are getting to know us better. You see that we are trustworthy - even if we were a bit rambunctious there for a few turns. Get's the blood racing though doesn't it? Which is more than I can say for this poor excuse of a wine I have dredged up. Just a minute. My good friend from Gathering Storm, even if you are an economist, deserves better than this.
Here - try this. 2670. Awesome year. Much better. Fairly expensive though. You see, demand is up with population growth. And grapes just aren't what they use to be. So, if I draw a demand curve like this, and a supply curve like this, then the price ... wait, this is like trying to sell a thunderstorm to Gathering Storm. oh - sorry - little saying which has taken hold back home.
Anyways my friend - once again - my assurances as to confidentiality. And of course, er 'burp', excuse me, we expect the same in return. Nice wine, isn't it. If you would confirm that in writing - well, it would be appreciated.
Now - I must get back to that my in-basket of mine. I think I have a couple more letters from you here that need my attention.
Once again, Nathan. Cheers, good health, and a safe journey home.
BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:24.
Apolyton Time is 00:24. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
22-12-2002 02:51
|