28-12-2002 17:28									#61
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I watched yesterday some early UFC and there was a JKD fighter as well. I think he had to abandon all his arsenal right from the beginning . It was straight to the ground and headbutting from there on. He lost.

	28-12-2002 18:20									#62
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quote: One of the most experienced and best JKD fighters of the past few years, John Lober, got his ass handed to him by Frank Shamrock.

Lober? he's no JKD master! not even close! Ditto for Todd Medina, Peter Khmelev, and any other Pride/UFC fighter who claims to be a JKD fighter. Most of them don't even use Lee's version of JKD, and if they did they certainly never mastered it.

quote: but I can always say that if Bruce Lee's opponents in the 60s were trained according to today's standards in Valetudo, BJJ, whatever, they would wipe the floor with HIM.

If Lee used present day JKD techniques, he's win 90% of all fights against Valetudo, BJJ, whatever fighters you throw at him. Back in his day there wasn't anyone who could match him. If Lee lived in our time, the same would have applied. Note that Lee hasn't lost a single fight, tournament or street fight, since he learned martial arts. And he has been in loads of fights, against streetfighters as well as renowned martial artists.

JKD isn't a traditional martial arts. It's a streetfighting style, and if mastered, an extremely succesful one. Since Pride has pretty much a streetfighting only tournament nowadays, it stands to reason that a JKD master (and Lee in particular) would do extremely well in there. Also note that JKD isn't a fixed style, like Kung Fu. JKD is highly adaptive, and good fighters borrow the most effective moves from other styles to suit their needs.

And no, that doesn't mean that Lee would win all fights over a long period of time. He's still human after all. But he would be the best fighter in his weight class, without a doubt.

	28-12-2002 18:34									#63
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i think if james bond was in UFC he would never lose. he is bond for gods sake!

	28-12-2002 18:57									#64
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yeah, but Bond would be cheating with exploding wristwatches, and stuff like that.

	28-12-2002 19:01									#65
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Saint Marcus, ok now we can agree with something. I would have to agree with some of that too. Bruce Lee was an awesome athlete. Rare piece of work.. If he was born later and would be in his prime today, training as hard as he did, he would definitely be a force to reckon in his weight class, no doubt. And as for other fighters, well they are all about adapting too, use good techniques from various styles. Some have developed their own styles (pat miletich for example), borrowing stuff from other styles and making it a powerful combination. With todays knowledge about fighting, Lee could do very well..
Maybe we could argue more about what is JKD..Maybe it would be different if Lee was here today, because it would have developed more into what the sport is now.

	28-12-2002 19:25									#66
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Damn you people, all this macho talk and now you've made me tape the K-1 event tonight.

	28-12-2002 19:29									#67
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Yeah, there you go! I have to go to the supermarket soon, to buy some potato chips and soda .
K-1 isn't mixed martial arts exactly, but it's a great event too!

	28-12-2002 19:29									#68
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I'm really looking forward to seeing some real, live, Muay Thai when I get to Bangkok in a few weeks!

	28-12-2002 19:32									#69
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Mobius, Oh man I'm so jealous.. My friend was in Bangkok few years ago and he got to see some local Muay Thai fights, they were supposed to be good. Good atmosphere and all that. I hope you get to see good fights.

Anyone with Eurosport, Sapp is fighting in K-1, and he's what? Over 300 pounds easily anyway. Now that's fun to watch when he takes on 200 pounds guy. He's not so skilled yet, but he's not that fat, he has muscles like no one else.

	28-12-2002 19:43									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Mobius, Oh man I'm so jealous.. My friend was in Bangkok few years ago and he got to see some local Muay Thai fights, they were supposed to be good. Good atmosphere and all that. I hope you get to see good fights.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it! A friend of mine was a semi pro and we used to see quite a few in London - but it's not the same as the real thing...

	28-12-2002 19:48									#71
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Oh, so you know the business and can really appreciate it .. nice . Now I really am jealous to you.
I have never seen live Muay Thai fight. Just from tv and some guys training in the gym. I can only imagine being there when the music plays and guys go at it.

	28-12-2002 19:49									#72
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There's something weird in that traditional music. I always get that feeling when I hear it. It's great! It's kind of spooky too.

	28-12-2002 20:23									#73
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This really has nothing to do with the main topic here, but seeing as how both Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan have been mentioned, I can't resist...

This is from a show called Azumanga Daioh. Three high school girls are trying to study for their mid-terms. Note that three are known for being pretty dense; collectively they've earned the nickname "the Bonklers" (Idiot Team, basically). In addition, the one nicknamed Osaka is known for going off on wild tangets for no particular reason.

(Words in quotes are spoken in English)

Osaka: Hey...
Kagura: Hm?
Osaka: Is "Bruce Lee"'s last name "Blue"? (Note that saying "Bruce Lee" with a Japanese accent sounds like saying "Blue Three" in English with a Japanese accent)
Kagura: That was pretty random.
Tomo: (laughs) What are you talking about? "Bruce Lee" is a foreigner right?
Osaka: Yeah.
Tomo: Then "Three" has got to be his last name!
Osaka and Kagura: (pause) Oh!
Kagura: So that's how it is... Tomo, you're pretty smart!
Tomo: Of course!
Osaka: Then... What happened to "One" and "Two"?
Osaka: Then should "Blue Five" be... "Jackie Chan" or something?
Kagura and Tomo: (pause) Ah!

Wraith
"Let's say that Santa doesn't exist. But... do reindeer exist?"
-- Kagura ("Azumanga Daioh")

Attachment: osakabirdlj.gif
This has been downloaded 34 time(s).

	28-12-2002 20:26									#74
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Here's the thing about Bruce Lee. You could and did argue that he'd be one of the greatest fighters in the world IN HIS WEIGHT CLASS.

I have less of a problem with that, although I still don't think that Lee would do that well because of the fact that he never had to face the cross trained fighters of today.

However, Royce Gracie consistently beat people way above his weight class, as have various other BJJ/Valetudo/Muay Thai fighters. If it comes down to a fight between Royce in his prime and Lee in his prime, Royce wins without a doubt.

	28-12-2002 20:26									#75
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then some heroic dork comes in and liberates them all of their virginity

	28-12-2002 20:32									#76
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Yeah, IF we talk about weight classes.. I think it's essential that there are no weight classes, it's more realistic. It's passed us, unfortunately with other rules.

I just watched that fight where Hackney won that 600+ pounds guy. Wow he was huge! When he started hitting Hackney.. I mean those were heavy blows. He had no chance in the long run. I'd love to see how Royce would have fought him, because he's not so much striker. How do you submit that man? Well maybe not that hard, just don't take him to your guard.

Royce in his prime against Bruce in his prime? I'd put my money on Royce...

	28-12-2002 20:34									#77
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David Floyd, You have blue belt in BJJ, or even better? I knew you trained seriously, but I didn't know you were that experienced. All the power to you .

	28-12-2002 20:36									#78
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Pekka if you want to learn martial arts why not go for Kung - Fu?

It's not just beating up, it's philosophy too

(BTW I remember telling my Grandpa I was thinking about going to a martial arts class once and he said: "Great. You'll pay to get beaten up!"

(he was a big kidder)

	28-12-2002 20:41									#79
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I have no desire to learn traditional martial arts. I already do Shootfighting (and little kickboxing and stuff that they have in the gym, you don't have to pay extra). I have no need for Kung Fu and the philosophical side to them. I do respect those arts too, and their philosophies etc, but it's not what I'm looking for.

	28-12-2002 20:42									#80
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Ok.

I always found it appealing though to kick someone's ass and then offer a little philosophical proverb to go with it
(j/k)

	28-12-2002 20:43									#81
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I got a silver badge in rifle marksmanship.

	28-12-2002 20:46									#82
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I have golden! NJANJANJANNAJAAAA! Be jealous! .
Though I did cheat.. the last shots where you shoot on the turning targets and change the magazine... I shot double shot .

	28-12-2002 20:47									#83
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Or was it supposed to be double shot? Anyway I put it on automatic. I'm such a Rambo . Never got caught either.

	28-12-2002 20:50									#84
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Ya, but I have bad eyesight, especially when shooting at targets in rifle range!

But I rule with a pistol (the FN hipowers we used were crapola though).

	28-12-2002 20:53									#85
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My only trophy in athletic tournaments was a teddy bear which I was awarded when I managed to hit the bell on top of that thing you hit with a hammer in Luna Parks.

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 28-12-2002 at 21:04

	28-12-2002 20:56									#86
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Hey I have bad eyesight too! 0.8 on the left eye and 1.6 on the right eye + taittovirhe! I have to shoot pretty fast, or the target gets distorted(?) and I just have to shoot the fuzzy 'black part' which is in the middle.
But I do have the worst night vision, so if I have to shoot at dark, I'll prolly just shoot my own people .

	28-12-2002 20:58									#87
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But I have to say that I sucked hard when I had the chance to shoot with air pistol. I was so bad, I was ashamed . Pistols are not for me.

And 150 meters was max for me to be able to shoot accurate shots fast. 300 meters and then I'm in trouble, can't see that good. I also got shouted at combat shootings, because I used my magazine in the first 10 seconds. But who the hell goes fighting with 1 magazine anyway.. and I was sgt already, so I got shouted hard. 'sgt you! Where the hell do you think you are! In Vietnam?! If you were my son, I'd kill myself' and those are the exact words, I still here them echoing in my head . I was red.

	28-12-2002 21:37									#88
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jaakko pekka? pekka jaako?

finlanders in love

	28-12-2002 21:46									#89
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Noo! Can't you see, we can shoot and we are very violent.. don't you dare to say anything like that .

Now to get more back on topic, what about that Sambo, russian wrestling thingie? I remember Oleg Taktarov was some kind of Sambo champion? He's a guy I fell in love (not that way!) first time I saw him. He's so great, he speaks so little english, or at least back then when he first entered the octagon.. he was so likeable. True champion, I wonder if he's still fighting.