01-01-2003 23:56									#31
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quote: Shakira and her shaking...

nothing wrong with either of them. leave them as they are!

	01-01-2003 23:59									#32
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Markos -

	02-01-2003 00:19									#33
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They dress that way because their managers make them. If it botheres you, don't look.

There's some new teen-pop idol chick who dresses like a punk. Listen to her if you want.

	02-01-2003 00:28									#34
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You people seem to live in a different world than me...
Ludicrous!

	02-01-2003 00:33									#35
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Yes the music is made to appeal to the 8-16 female who will go out and buy the CD. The sluttieness of dress is aimed at the 13 - 25 male with disposable income who watch music videos. Sleazy videos leads to more of these males watching them and thus draws more advertisers to the networks and websites which show those videos. So again its the old "Sex Sells" routine.

	02-01-2003 00:39									#36
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Nature of the beast. Those 13-25 males will rather go to some site and download the video . Or, if they like the song, download the mp3 .

	02-01-2003 05:04									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed Why should it not be okay? Why should we not let people take whatever roles they feel like? Certainly, I detest the preassure present in today's patriarchal culture that makes women want to be commodities, to try to sell themselves and their bodies, but just as awful is the traditional division of women into saints and whores. Let women be who they like and don't judge them by their sexual lives.

Because they are selling their product to children.

We are talking about kids aged 5-17 here. Hardly an age that can comprehend sexual responsibility. But they see Christina hop on some guy and dry hump him and so hey now it's cool to jump on guys and dry hump them.

What they never see are the consequences of those actions. They don't hear about the girls that have to drop out of high school and take care of a baby when they are still babies. They don't see the girl dumping her kid in a dumpster somewhere because she's too scared to be a mommy. They don't see the kid living in poverty because dad was only 15 at the time he was born and was scared so he ran off and won't send in the damn money.

It's all well and good to let people be themselves, but when there are children involved that is just outright irresponsible and ****ed up. This kind of stuff carries serious, life-altering consequences. Responsibilty first. Role independence be DAMNED.

	02-01-2003 05:06									#38
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OK let me try to explain this.

Women look up to Shakira just like men look up to guys who are really masculine (I won't use the word sexy because men hate guys like Ricky Martin). Just because they are the same sex doesn't mean there isn't idol worship going on.

Women admire Shakira because she does shake her booty and get all the boys attention. So little girls want to be just like her, and of course they buy her album in this process.

	02-01-2003 05:24									#39
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Who cares?

Shakira and Britney are smokin'!

	02-01-2003 05:28									#40
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Smoking what, crack?

	02-01-2003 05:29									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Black Dragon: yes I know... all the coochie cutters and ****... but why do these women (or in some cases, girls) who are out in the media all the time and in videos and being idolized by young girls... why do they see the need to dress slutty? Why don't they be a role-model for not being a whore?

Damn straight. They should all where burqa, chador, however you say it in your language of choice.

Ah, so it's the women's fault. "She asked for it, she was dressed like a whore."

Why don't you get your gonads in check, reinstall your patronising chauvanism in the orifice from whence it came, and put the responsibility back on the male gender for it's perceptions and actions.

As far as Shakira goes specifically, her audience in Latinamerica (still her main audience, despite Laundry Service) is primarily adult, not pre-teen girls. People there seem to have enough sense to distiguish between her stage act (which always figured bellydance, since she's half Lebanese arab) and reality of what girls and women choose to wear themselves on an everyday basis, or when they go out to clubs or whatever.

The Cristina Aguilera video was a new low in pop music, but that's a big step out from the general pop scene, or women's actions/dress/behavior in general in the mainstream media.

	02-01-2003 05:31									#42
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara They dress that way because their managers make them. If it botheres you, don't look. There's some new teen-pop idol chick who dresses like a punk. Listen to her if you want.

Avril Lavigne?

But she doesn't count, since she doesn't fit into lil' Albert's troll stereotype. This is all about the patronizing white male gon' protect the little womens from themselves.

	02-01-2003 05:42									#43
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I'd have to agree, I think Shakira is fine and what she does on stage is just as harmless as Elvis doing his thing. She's a pretty class act.

It's that damn Christina video specifically that I have a problem with. I know if I had a little girl I would have ALOT to say about that video.

	02-01-2003 05:46									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I'd have to agree, I think Shakira is fine and what she does on stage is just as harmless as Elvis doing his thing. She's a pretty class act. It's that damn Christina video specifically that I have a problem with. I know if I had a little girl I would have ALOT to say about that video.

What the hell did Christina do that was so awful? My pop culture knowledge must be really sucky. Anyway, I agree with MtG, AS is being too patronizing and women are smart enough to be able to make choices for themselves on what to wear.

	02-01-2003 05:51									#45
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BD,

The main scene that I have a problem with in that video is when she jumps on this guy and she does a dance where it looks like she is basically ****ing him except they have clothes on (well not much but still some). It is completely obscene. Fine if you are over 21 but inappropriate for kids.

Now obviously she is doing this for a couple of reasons:

1) She wants to prove to everyone she's all "grown up" and not the little Mousketeer anymore
2) She wants to do something outrageous so people will talk about her (the way Madonna like to do shocking things to get publicity)

But I found it tasteless and irresponsible.

	02-01-2003 05:54									#46
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"The main scene that I have a problem with in that video is when she jumps on this guy and she does a dance where it looks like she is basically ****ing him except they have clothes on (well not much but still some). "

You are aware that people dance like that alot at parties, that they are basically ****ing except with clothes on, aren't you? But ya I guess showing that would be inappropriate for pre-teens.

	02-01-2003 05:59									#47
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Yeah, I know the grinding you're talking about. I don't think that's okay at the high school level. Of course you can't control what kids are doing off school grounds, but if there is a school dance I think the school should have a right to ask the kids to stop. At college, sure go for it.

But this video, she jumped on the guy and straddled him, it looked really bad. I'm sure there is a link out there somewhere showing it for free.

I guess you'd have to judge for yourself whether you think it's bad or not.

I've already made my mind up.

	02-01-2003 06:00									#48
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I don't find Christina's new video tasteless and irresponsible. I do, however, find it completely unattractive. She was very cute in the video for "Genie In A Bottle"; now she's just a whore. Give me Avril any day...

	02-01-2003 06:01									#49
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I might like to add that I agree completely with MtG.

	02-01-2003 06:04									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I've already made my mind up.

So how many times did you watch it?

	02-01-2003 06:19									#52
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Ye man, in what kind of a world do you guys live in?
I know Shakira from this song whenever and wherever, i saw the video last year during my skiholiday (french MTV sucks) and that's it..


Christina aguilera?? wow she still sings? same as for britney spears... i know her fist 3-4 songs, but i have no idea what she does nowadays

avril lavrigne? heard of her, but never seen her (is she hot? )


I suppose you all watch (crap) MTV and listen to poppy radios then, because i haven't got the slightest idea of all this fuss, and i don't give a damn either!! (i dislike slutty women, though shakira is ...... nice )

	02-01-2003 06:23									#53
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OH yeah that's right !!!

	02-01-2003 06:33									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer HOW THE HELL DOES IT SELL?!

listen to your penis sometime. it'll be fun.

	02-01-2003 06:43									#55
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Smoking what, crack?

Well, ideally something long and belonging to me

	02-01-2003 06:50									#56
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A four footer?

	02-01-2003 08:58									#57
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I haven't seen the videos in question. I'm not sure where you guys see these videos. MTV doesn't play videos anymore.

Dry humping. This is a hard issue . I'm divided on this. On one hand most teenage girls already know most of the motions involved in sex. And if they don't this is a good way to learn. Often teens are really scared the first time because they don't know how. Well this video shows you how .

But on the other hand- it might be a little too much for preteen girls. But I still feel if you have a decent sex ed class the girls will no what's right and wrong. I have no problem with young teenagers having sex. It's a great thing. As long as they try to avoid pregnancy.

	02-01-2003 13:23									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident But on the other hand- it might be a little too much for preteen girls. But I still feel if you have a decent sex ed class the girls will no what's right and wrong. I have no problem with young teenagers having sex. It's a great thing. As long as they try to avoid pregnancy.

No one's asking the obvious question: what the hell are pre-teen girls doing watching MTV? I'm the parent of a 12-year-old, and I can tell you we simply did not have MTV in the house when we felt our daughter was too young to watch it. It's not that difficult, really.

(Before the anti-capitalists, with whom I generally agree, show up: of course I'd rather see corporations and influential individuals act responsibly, but then I'd rather be 6'2, thin, and have all my hair back. Those two things are about equally likely to happen. )

	02-01-2003 17:52									#59
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The Christina Aug... whatever video involves her leaping on a guy, straddling him, and humping him... that is NOT grinding, contrary to what Black Dragon said... I have yet to see a girl leap on a guy while dancing...

All you crackers live in affluent suburbs and do not experience the immense sexual-oriented problems that occur here... I'm sure yall would love it if your suburban daughters were constantly felt up by guys, were treated like ****, thought they only serve to give pleasure to guys who they wrongly think they love, get pregnant at ridiculously high rates, etc.

I know what yall will say... living in your great suburban world, you'll say let's just have the parents educate their kids or prevent them from watching the videos... try that here, mother****er... you think parents give a damn about their kids? Yall live in a fantasy world...

	02-01-2003 18:01									#60
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The sad thing about these slutty looking pop stars and teenybopper girls is that they are being manipulated by the man. They think that dressing slutty is cool but all it really does is makes the man get his jollies at girls expenses. And then later in life these women don't understand why they get mistreated by so many guys. And what about the average or below average looking girl? She lives her life mentally scarred because of all these images that can't be lived up too. It's rather tragic.