05-01-2003 00:23									#61
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Attacking with our warrior to their fortified warrior in forest does not look good. Fortify = 25 % def bonus, and forest the same, so we'd have much more chanse of losing the fight then winning it.

	05-01-2003 00:26									#62
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I just got the screenshot... That sucks!!

	05-01-2003 00:27									#63
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We can Slash have there as reinforcement within 6 turns. The question is, do we want war now or not?

	05-01-2003 00:29									#64
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as long as possible, avoid war! move Slash to block them too (if this doesn't leave their explorers unshadowed), and politely ask them to stop scouting us if they don't want to risk a war.

DeepO

	05-01-2003 00:30									#65
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Hm, this is annoying, but I was expecting worse as well.

1. I hope they're not foolish enough to ignore diplomatic relations just because of their superior position at the isthmus. If so, war is inevitable.

2. If they've contacted someone else, we will not know about it for quiet some time now. This hurts our tech-trading plans.

3. There is no easy way to get them off that isthmus; pretty soon they'll have a fortified Spearmen on that Forest tile. This, and the WC-impassable jungle indicates that Swordsmen may be our best bet.

4. As always, REX is the answer. Let us REX.


Dominae

	05-01-2003 00:39									#66
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*sigh*

come to think of it, they can very well ignore any diplomatic efforts by us for the time being. they soon will have found our capital, dig in in some caves in our spine, and go with the immortals they will get soon. We definately need BW fast, but trading with them doesn't seem the deal it used to be: if we were to trade the wheel for spears, hoping to trade alphabet for IW, they might refuse the second trade, trying to extort it after an immortal rush. This luck of theirs makes Vox even more a risk.

DeepO

	05-01-2003 00:42									#67
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I will delay the EotS laborer change to fur forest one turn. That doesn't hurt us at the moment. DeepO, I expect you to convince the rest of the Economic Schola about your plan within this time. The other members should have the time to respond. Since VC won't stop exploring, we will in all cases build a warrior in Hurricane, so the moment of the change won't matter.

- Grog already moved 4, as was planned.
- Hack goes 4, at the mountain. We will see any intruder.
- Slash goes 7, towards the isthmus. I feel he's more needed there ASAP, before they slip more units through.
- Ouch goes 8.

This leaves both Voxians out of our view, but we know where they are, and Hack and Ouch are guaranteed to intercept them, if they proceed south.

No changes in laborers, build orders or tech sliders this turn.
/EDIT/ Sorry, of course Hurricane changes its laborer to fur forest.

15 minutes for objections. Should be none, as the plan leaves all options open.

	05-01-2003 00:42									#68
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And they claim having contacted someone else besides us, that will then make tech trading much more advantageous to them then to us: they can immediately trade our techs away for more profits.

	05-01-2003 00:43									#69
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We have a reply, Review this Discuss here. I have a turn chat to get to. I will be around, but focused on teh SP Demo game.

Mss

	05-01-2003 00:47									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph - Slash goes 7, towards the isthmus. I feel he's more needed there ASAP, before they slip more units through.

Blocking the isthmus is good, but it leaves them on the better side: they have two intruders behind the isthmus rampaging aroung, we have none

Maybe our diplomats could persuade them to open up the blockade at the isthmus ?

When we'll have Slash there too, we can always threaten their lone warrior blockade. Unless they have reinforcements there before that.

	05-01-2003 00:53									#71
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If we could get 4 more warriors asap, we could effectively block their further success south.

	05-01-2003 01:10									#73
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Team stats:

49 Gathering Storm
60 Demogyptica
54 Glory of War
55 Role Play
53 Vox Controli
49 Lux Invicta
55 Legoland

	05-01-2003 01:11									#74
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Turn made, as described above.

Two shots (zoom and f11) this time, in a few minutes.

	05-01-2003 04:00									#75
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zoom and f11 are good, i dont think anyone needs those north and south shots, especially now that we are not revealing much new things in the map

	05-01-2003 04:02									#76
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I actually do make them my background , easier to start remembering things.
(consider it like having a worlmap next to your bed, when your where little )

	05-01-2003 04:28									#77
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quote: Originally posted by alva I actually do make them my background , easier to start remembering things. (consider it like having a worlmap next to your bed, when your where little )

I have the full size map with place names as background
We should use good firewalls - Trip might try to penetrate our computers and steal the map

/edit: oo cant write

	05-01-2003 06:27									#78
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Shouldn't our score have jumped up because we founded a city last turn? And if so, does this mean that LI founded their second city at the same time as ours? If so, I hope our Granary begins paying off, because we are way behind in expansion...(yes, I know Settler/Unit pumps are investments, but that doesn't make me feel better).


Dominae

	05-01-2003 06:52									#79
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Most teams are on the brink of settling their third city, or have just done so, we are not that far behind and will catch up later.

D*mned VOX!!

	05-01-2003 07:02									#80
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If not for that bonus Settler, we would be quite far behind.


Dominae

	05-01-2003 07:26									#81
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We have good land for monarchy/rep, but not for despotism, However once we get out of it, we should boom quickly.
(not too many teams will have invested in a granary either, except Lego maybe, who seem to have a very good starting place)

	05-01-2003 07:31									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Shouldn't our score have jumped up because we founded a city last turn?

It jumped up one point. The old stats were:

47 Gathering Storm (+2)
59 Demogyptica (+1)
53 Glory of War (+1)
53 Role Play (+2)
51 Vox Controli (+2)
48 Lux Invicta (+1)
53 Legoland (+2)

	05-01-2003 09:48									#83
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quote: Originally posted by alva Most teams are on the brink of settling their third city, or have just done so, we are not that far behind and will catch up later.

Huh? In this time frame, most teams should just be building their second, barring a free settler.

	05-01-2003 09:53									#84
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hmm, you are probably right there Nathan,
even better

	05-01-2003 17:46									#85
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Yes, 3rd cities are coming in 6-8 turns. Notice that Demogyptica has not dropped in size, they had an extra settler as well, and are now probably building a granary in their capital as well. We will not be the fastest Rexers.

DeepO

	05-01-2003 18:17									#86
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Yes, 3rd cities are coming in 6-8 turns. Notice that Demogyptica has not dropped in size, they had an extra settler as well, and are now probably building a granary in their capital as well. We will not be the fastest Rexers.

Without food bonuses or granaries, growth for each city to build a settler takes 20 turns. Only civs with an excellent food situation could get a third city (not counting free cities or settlers) 6-8 turns from now.

For a city to serve as a better settler pump than EotS, it would need a total of three extra points of food - either three food bonus tiles or two with one of them on irrigated grasslands. Unless I'm mistaken, Demogyptica shows no sign of having any food bonuses at all in their capital. So we'll still have the stronger settler pump as long as disease doesn't hit us too hard. (And that's assuming their delay is from building a granary rather than something else.)

Nathan

	05-01-2003 19:06									#87
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Okay, 6-8 turns might be a bit too fast, I just wanted to say that it is possible others settle their 3rd city before ours. We should be the first one with 4 cities, though, and gain more momentum from then on.

And yes, we might still be the fastest Rexers, but at least demogyptica comes close. We are not the only ones aiming for REX. (if, of course, they have been building a granary, and no barracks or temple)

DeepO

	05-01-2003 19:21									#88
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Yes, 3rd cities are coming in 6-8 turns. Notice that Demogyptica has not dropped in size, they had an extra settler as well, and are now probably building a granary in their capital as well. We will not be the fastest Rexers.

You are right. We should not underestimate Demogyptica. They maintain a big civ site in Germany and have a good strategy forum and very good strategists too. I think, of all the teams, they are going to be the strongest opponent.

	06-01-2003 00:01									#89
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO And yes, we might still be the fastest Rexers, but at least demogyptica comes close. We are not the only ones aiming for REX.

Last I checked, we are not aiming for REX ourselves, but some sort of REX-Worker-Warrior-Barracks hybrid (which is not really REX).


Dominae

	06-01-2003 01:42									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Last I checked, we are not aiming for REX ourselves, but some sort of REX-Worker-Warrior-Barracks hybrid (which is not really REX).

I view building an adequate number of workers as an integral part of REXing. The plan is for little or no compromise of EotS's settler/worker production (although we may squeeze in warriors when we can do so without slowing down settlers), but non-settler-pump cities will be less focused on helping the REXing.