05-01-2003 10:12									#1
	2800 BC Orders, Report, and Discussion Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

2800 BC Orders, Report, and Discussion

Standing unit orders:
Visigoth Slaves - move SW (from oliverfa)

Movement orders required for:
TEG (Interim commander - Togas)
Magyar Warriors (pikesfan)
Madrid Expedition (Crousto)

Madrid (Arnelos)
Standing Orders (see Turn 9)
Producing: Settler (6 turns)
Change WF: 3,5 (Cows, Game)

Pamplona (ruby_maser)
Producing: Warrior (1 turn)
Current WF: 7

Science
100% - Writing in 20 turns
Check if we can reduce slider without changing turns.

Diplomacy
We are expecting the GoW trade to be completed: Alphabet and 5 Gold for Warrior Code and The Wheel.

If we are contacted by anyone via in-game diplomacy, do not continue to play the turn without guidance from Lord Togas.

Screenshots
Please take screenshots that show all our explored terrain (World Map), city interior shots of Madrid and Pamplona for their governors, demographics (F11), and if the present scores are not included in any of these, include a shot of the score listing as well. Be sure to turn the grids on for the world map (ctrl-g).

Please provide orders, feedback, and suggestions below. When the turn is played, the player will post a report in this thread, and then discussion on the turn's developments will proceed.

Last edited by dejon on 05-01-2003 at 10:19

	05-01-2003 10:18									#2
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Arnelos - Madrid will reach size 3 one turn earlier than in your existing plans. (2550BC instead of 2500BC) How we deal with that is up to you: Entertainment slider, Entertainer, or micromanage previous to that point (by working forest tiles instead of the game tile for a couple of turns).

Arnelos & Togas - What are your opinions on the Pamplona goodie hut? You both posted in the relevant thread, but neither of you stated a preference for any of the options that have been offered. I ask because the Madrid spearmen will be ready this turn and must start the trip to Pamplona if that option is to be followed.

	05-01-2003 19:37									#3
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Please, unless someone can asure me that the second cattle is irrigatable at the present moment, move NW to irrigate the shielded grassland and then the cattle. I'm afraid this cattle has no acces to fresh water.

	05-01-2003 19:48									#4
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The City is next to a River, so it can Irrigate through the City. Unlike Madrid, Pamplona is NOT on a Hill.

Also, an added bonus, I'm posted a new map in the Map Room, which includes the Information that GF hed sent us. See it here.

E_T

	05-01-2003 20:28									#5
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quote: Originally posted by dejon (2550BC instead of 2500BC)

Is not the turn 40 years after 2750 ?

That would make :

2710
2670
2630
2590 (your 2550)
2550 (your 2500)

	05-01-2003 21:29									#6
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT Is not the turn 40 years after 2750 ?

You are quite right DAVOUT, I didn't consider the interval change when I wrote that.

	05-01-2003 21:48									#7
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Please, unless someone can asure me that the second cattle is irrigatable at the present moment, move NW to irrigate the shielded grassland and then the cattle. I'm afraid this cattle has no acces to fresh water.

E_T is right about it being next to a city, and thus irrigatable, but the cattle tile to the SW is irrigatable all on its own anyway.

Check out my crude drawing of Pamplona's rivers (dark blue lines):


How do I know this? Every tile that I've put a red dot on has a +1 Gold river bonus. That desert tile is not a desert - it's a flood plain! Pamplona will be a very healthy and rich city.

	05-01-2003 21:56									#8
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Dijon, can you tell if the Grassland that had the Hutt on it is shielded or not?

Letus Eta Tamali

	05-01-2003 22:02									#9
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Dijon, can you tell if the Grassland that had the Hutt on it is shielded or not?

The goodie hut grassland has no shield.

	05-01-2003 22:36									#10
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Then no prob, let's go SW to irrigate!

	05-01-2003 22:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Then no prob, let's go SW to irrigate!

I would NOT suggest that, for the following reasons:
The City will increase to size 2 in 4 turns.

[EDIT] O.k. here it is:

Turn 4 to complete Irrigation of tile #8 - start on Road - City will grow - uses the full benifit for Growth.
Turn 7 - road completed, full benifit for Trade on tile #8 - move to #7.
Turn 8 start on Irrigation.
Turn 12 to complete Irrigation of tile #7 - start on Road - uses the full benifit for Growth.
Turn 15 - Road Completed, full Trade benifit for both tiles.

If you move first to #7 and then Irrigate:
Turn 1 - start Irrigation.
Turn 4 - City Grows.
Turn 5 - Irrigation Complete (1 turn less benifit for growth) - start on road.
Turn 8 - Road built (1 turn less benifit for trade) - Move back to #8.
Turn 9 - Start on Irrigation.
Turn 13 - Irrigation complete (still 1 turn of less growth benifit) - Start on Road.
Turn 16 - Road Complete, full trade benifit for both tiles (still 1 turn less trade benifit)

Overall, 1 turn of less growth AND 1 turn of less Trade.[/EDIT]

E_T

	05-01-2003 23:13									#12
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At last the worker will stop travelling and start working.

Ah, worker in Spain ... used to be cool ...

	05-01-2003 23:20									#13
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I've updated the Previous post with the correct times...

E_T

	05-01-2003 23:27									#14
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We should probably get the Pamplona city governor involved in this discussion...ruby_maser?

I haven't studied the tiles and improvement benefits for this city, but I wonder if it would be more REX beneficial to irrigate one cattle and mine the other? We want to keep the city growth and unit production close.

	05-01-2003 23:33									#15
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We need the Growth to Rex Properly. With a high growth rate, we can have a fair number of Specialist (with or without having a Garrison). The specialist will be your people that you take from to do your REXing with & not have any Production Reduction.

E_T

	05-01-2003 23:42									#16
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Which tiles are #7 and #8?

	06-01-2003 00:01									#17
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa Which tiles are #7 and #8?

	06-01-2003 00:33									#18
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So if I've understood correctly what you are proposing is to start irrigating now instead of moving to the next tile and then irrigate. Again I thought it wasn't posible. It guess I have to train my eye better to recognize all this little details. Of course, it is better to start irrigating now.

So, Irrigate if posible if not, Move SW

And thanks dejon for the very graphic explanation

Last edited by OliverFA on 06-01-2003 at 02:08

	06-01-2003 02:05									#19
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I'm a bit confused about what to do with the Madrid Expedition this turn. Our current mission was to meet GoW, this is now done. What should we do next? Continue northwards until we reach Lux's territory? I'd go north this turn then.

	06-01-2003 05:41									#20
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I am sorry for my unannounced absence. In the future, I will be more clear. I have been away from a computer for two days.

Where the worker currently stands can be irrigated and I am happy with that plan. I would probably prefer to mine the second cow, but I will get back to everyone on that. I was not aware that the tile to the extreme south was a flood plain, and if so, I would really prefer to mine as growth will not nearly be an issue like maxing out production in these corrupt times.

I certainly hope this isn't all for nought.... at least, I don't think the turn has been played yet

I will be interested to know for sure whether or not Señor Arnelos and Lord Togas are okay with Madrid's garrison backing up Pamplona for when the goodie hut is popped. Otherwise, I am all for taking the risk to get that hut before ND can have a chance at it, but I will let the majority rule on that.

	06-01-2003 08:08									#21
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Turn Results for 2800 BC

Had worker irrigate the cow square he was standing on.

Moved newly built spearman out of Madrid towards Pamplona to cover in case of barbarian uprising. Noticed the ND scout hiding in the hills (see Madrid image) He is 4 moves from our goodie hut.

Madrid expedition moved WEST (contrary to Crousto's instructions.) This was done per our agreement with Lux that we would not scout north if they did not scout south. I agreed to bring back our warrior once we met GoW. I want to "Bring him back" the long way by tracing out the edge of the Jungle towards ND territory to see what is north of Madrid.

Moved TEG SOUTH. Had planned on having them continue to explore the southern coast now that the GoW meet is over, however, we may want to consider moving them into the jungle to further track the limits of ND's nation, while remaining outside of their vision. So there are two TEG options ... east or south. Please discuss.

Magyars moved WEST, and confirmed that we have a vast ocean. At this point I find it highly unlikely that there are any further land routes to the west and that Legoland is on an island. The Magyars should explore the southern coast for other key landmarks or possible goodie huts.

Changed production in Madrid per governor's order to work both the game and the cows.

GoW accepted our offer. We now have Warrior Code and the Wheel. We can now see horse resources on the map.

Images posted here as always.

--Togas

	06-01-2003 08:45									#22
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Re: ND Scout

As I feared, they are following the mountain line. They will most likely move SW next turn, and see the NE borders of Pamplona. Will they aim to go between Madrid and Pamplona, heading S? Or will they go around, SW or W, towards the goodie hut? Perhaps we should open a discussion with them, asking them to stay on the mountain tops. Can anyone here tell us for certain from what vantage points they will be able to see the hut? In question are Pamplona tiles #9,10,11, and 3.

Re: TEG

I would favour heading immediately south to continue exploration of Cow Valley. The Madrid Expedition can cover the land and jungle that is currently east of TEG on their roundabout trip home.

Re: Madrid Workforce

Next turn, if we change from the Game and Cattle (5 and 3) to the Game and Forest (5 and 4) the city growth and Settler completion will coincide, eliminating any need for slider adjustments or entertainers. (this time, anyway)

Re: Science

As a result of no longer working the Wheat tile of Madrid, Writing is now 23 turns away. (Instead of 20)

Re: Future City sites

Señor Tamali's recent plans have placed priority in settling the northern edge of cow valley, with a city to be placed first by the abundant silk near the western coast line, and then one near the game further inland. With the discovery of the horses near the second proposed site, I believe that it should take precedence over the coastal city.

	06-01-2003 09:03									#23
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You should have moved T.E.G. to the Mountain that wes NW of were he was, to see if we can see the next Continent from there.

Oh well...

Letus Eta Tamali

	06-01-2003 09:08									#24
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Re: Future City sites Señor Tamali's recent plans have placed priority in settling the northern edge of cow valley, with a city to be placed first by the abundant silk near the western coast line, and then one near the game further inland. With the discovery of the horses near the second proposed site, I believe that it should take precedence over the coastal city.

I beleave that the next Settler that is due to come from Madrid is slated to go to Site #1 (the costal site) and the Pamplona's First Settler can go to Site #3 first, If Our leader desires. I had set #2 & #3 up, because of the times that would be involved in the trek to the City from Pamplona.

Letus Eta Tamali

	06-01-2003 09:11									#25
	a sneaky plan... maybe Tired of ads?

Well, it looks like we will barely beat the ND team to the punch. We should be fine to get the hut before they do.

We could, however, be sneaky about this affair. Pretend to let the information slip in an ambassador's letter that we have a goody hut west of Pamplona (make as if the ambassador was not aware of their presence nearby). Then, pop the hut right as they get beside it. If worse comes to worse and barbarians do come out, maybe we can destroy their scout without a war It may not be possible, but just maybe...

	06-01-2003 09:17									#26
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Oh Great Leader,

If I could be so Bold, but as we are trying to keep our Maps in the Map Room as updated as possible, could you take a Zoomed out shot for the Mapmakes to have an easier time with keeping your great Personage as fully Informed as possible.

[OOC] It takes a bit more time for me to arrange the different shots, especially if I don't have the ability to work off the game save itself. I have to rely on what I can get from the shots that you provide.
[/OOC]

E_T

	06-01-2003 09:27									#27
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Not a bad idea. At this point, with the amount of land we have, it's probably best to use the zoomed out images.

--Togas

	06-01-2003 09:38									#28
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quote: Originally posted by E_T You should have moved T.E.G. to the Mountain that wes NW of were he was, to see if we can see the next Continent from there.

Out of curiosity, I dredged up the old minimaps and combined them with our 2800BC minimap. Here is the result.



From the placement of Legoland and the ocean to the northeast of them, it looks doesn't seem that the continents would be within sight of each other at that point, but they might be further south, west of Pamplona. I wonder if Lego would be willing to trade minimaps again?

Have there been further discussions with Vox and/or GS about their minimaps?

	06-01-2003 09:42									#29
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When taking the World Map screenshot, I zoom out (z) and clear the dialogs (del) to get everything in one shot. Pretty soon even that will not be enough.

	06-01-2003 11:16									#30
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Yes, but then we can have spots for what we want to use to make the maps. And after we get everybodies full Map, we won't need to update the maps as often.

E_T