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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
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Decedro Togas, being the first leader of Spain to promote the settlement of new cities, has had built an entire room off of his place. Here, formed with clay (recent secrets of pottery put to use) are images of the hills, mountains, valleys, rivers, forests, and jungle that surounds Spain. These images cover a massive table in the center and as the scouts bring word of new lands, the artisans shape the clay, adding more to the table.
I call upon all of the wisest nobles of the people of Spain to bring forth your plans for the establishment of many more cities. We shall use this place and this giant map to plan out new and glorious civilization. THIS is where all future discussions about new city placements will be held.
I call upon the artisans of the Tamali family and the other wise members of this tribe to bring your plans here, post them for all of Spain to see and for all to debate.
I also call upon those who have created drawings of our land to post them here and to update them as the world is uncovered around us.
--Togas
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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My Lord Togas,
I apoligize for the tartiness of this plan, as it doesn't incorporate the newest information from the various scouts. It takes a while for the Craftsmen to carve out the new terrain features, and they are working as fast as the clay will dry.
I did, however, get the most important item that we have gotten from the scouts incorporated into the Map. That is the Exact location of the Neu Demogyptica's Capitol, Neu Theben.
I've numbered the cities as to the most probible foundings. This can be altered, as these aren't set in stone (or clay, for that manner) until the new settlers have set out on their journey.
#1 is on the Coast, as the Cheif Archetech has requested that, so as to build a Wonder, that will be great and powerful.
#'s 2 & 3, will establish our Immediate Boarder with the Neu Dem Nation. These will require the building of Temples, to expand the boarder to the proper sizes & City Walls, for the proper Defense of the City. #2 will be right on a source of Silks. Both Cities will be right on the Rivers, so that they will grow to great sizes. #3 will be on our side of the River, which will give us a defensive bonus, whereas, #2, will be on the other side of the river. #3 is closer to Nue Theben.
#4 will be on the coast, and will give us the access to the Spices that are there.
#5 Will be on the NE coast from Madrid, it is on the otherside of the Jungle from Madrid, but will help to establish our Northern boarder. Hopefully, there will be anouther source of fishes, as down SW at site #1. Our explorers did not come close enough to the coast to see if there was. If the Madrid Expedition Returns before we send out the Settler group to establish this city, could we have them swing back by, so that we can see what is there. This City will also Require a Temple & Walls.
#6 will be on the Jungle Edge, but will also be close to a source of silks. This city will fully establish our northern boarders, for the present. This City will also be on a River and can grow large.
If the gOdZ smile on us, we might get to build cities at sites #11 & 12. But it is highly doubtfull that we will be able to get settlers to those places, before one or our Northern Neighbors get to those spots.
Sire, I need to briefly consult with some artisans, please, take a detailed look at the map, while I'm away.
Letus Eta Tamali
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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Many Pardons Sire, for the Interruption.
To Briefly Review, Sites 1 through 6 will net us:
5 Silk Luxuries (which we can sell 4 of them);
at least 2 Spice Luxuries (which we can sell 1 of them);
Establish our boarders with our Neighbors to the North.
Site #7 will bring us the Luxury of Ivory, after a Temple has been built there.
#8 is in the mostly Unexplored area that is west of Pamplona. Hopefully, there isn't a Mountain at that location or a highly desireable Resource that we would want to have outside that cities' walls. Sites #'s 9, 13, 14 & 15 are the same situation, concerning the actual placement due to that unknowns that are in that area. Site #13 might be located in the Western Ocean, for all we know at this moment. The same could be true for #15.
Site #10, is a problematic site. With the founding of Pamplona at its specific location and the amount of Desert & Hills, I beleave that this site location gives the city the best chance for growth. As it will need a large amount of Irrigation to help with its Growth, it is at least slated for this time frame, before we can have some workers attend to it's needs.
That Completes this plan for our next 1000 years of our Expansion. My Lord, I'll be happy to answer any questions that you or your court might have.
Letus Eta Tamali
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:24
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Nice plan as always, señor Tamali. However I wonder what would our neighbours from north think if we found cities number 2 and 3 so close their own capital. This cities should be either well defended or backed by a diplomatic agreement. Preferibly both things at once.
Unless they city in the map is not Neu Theben but their second city. This would change things.
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dejon
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quote:
Originally posted by oliverfa
Unless they city in the map is not Neu Theben but their second city. This would change things. |
From the visible border, we know it is a size 2 city. It is very doubtful they could have a size 2 city other than their capital at this point.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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With the distance of Neu Theben from the Sites #2 & 3, we won't inpact them (i.e. be threatening them) until our cities get to size 3 AND/OR, thiers gets to size 4, a long time away.
With Site #2 having the Extra Silk, we can use that to have th city grow to a larger size, to expand a bit faster.
As for this map being a long term projection, we need to think in both, Long & short term, If we want to succeed.
Yes, Defence is an Issue, but with the Jungle to help keep the Northerners at Bay & some new Workers, we can get the roads to them fairly quickly. But we need to make sure that our boarders will be secure, to prevent ND from settling south of the Jungle.
If we get the agreement with ND to have them keep to the north of the Jungle, and us south, then they will stay out for now. By the time that they realize what we have down here, then we can have the two cities relatively secure. We can then start to back fill.
It's not really good, from a military standpoint, but as we are still deep into REX'ing (especially the others), we can take full advantage of the time to get them set for a proper Defense.
E_T
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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Part of the Roading will be dependant on the actual Terrain that is in the Interior of the Valley.
As for how we should go about REX'ing (short term), Pamplona & Madrid should be the Settler Centers for the next few Cities. Madrid should be the Spearman build Center for now.
For Sites 2 & 3, at least until it has had some Irrigation to the Plains, it will be limited to size 2. It should have the following for it's first set of builds (* are for things that can change):
1) Warrior
2*) Warrior (should be size 2 at this time, growth limited)
3) Worker (to start the roading & Irrigation)
4) Temple (to start locking in the boarder)
5) Worker
6) Warrior
As for Site 1, even thought it has the Fishes to help with it's growth, it will still require some Irrigation Brought to it for it to thrive. Until we do that, it will be limited to Size 3 (Coast 1 + Fish 2 - 1 Despot = 2 Food). To do that, We will need to Cut the one forrest that is at Madrid #14, then Irrigate & road to the new Site. This site builds should be similar to Site #2, but without the with another Warrior or 2, in place of the Temple (or a Granery), for now. Sometime in there, we plan to have this site build a Wonder, so we will need the growth to bring up the production capability.
Sites 4 to 6 will also be limited in growth, until it had gotten some Irrigation. It's Site 4's builds should be similar to Site 1, whereas #4 & 5 should be similar to #2 & 3.
Is that mid Term enough for now?
[EDIT] Site #3 had Grassland, not plains, so it can get to a higher Pop and can be used for Rexing, too.
Letus Eta Tamali
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:24
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For consideration, I would like to hear the thought of the people, the notion of moving sites 2 & 3 towards each other.
For protection purposes, I am leaning towards placing Site 2 one space to the east, and placing Site 3 one space to the SW. This would put them both behind rivers, allow us to build roads behind the rivers that would get troops from one city to the next in exactly 1 turn, and give both cities VERY strong surrounding land with which to grow from.
Site 2 would have the following in its 9 tile radius: 8 river tiles, 1 game/forest, 1 grassland, 1 plains, 2 dyes.
Site 3 would have the following in its 9 tile radius: 6 river tiles, 1 game tile (shared), 2 sheilded grasslands, and 2 grasslands (one with horses).
As my computer's graphic program (MS paint) blows, I humbly ask for any volunteers who could better render this proposal and post it.
--Togas
p.s. Is anyone else who's loaded a "during the turn" save of the game noticed the following error? When I load a save that I made whilst in the middle of playing the turn, it applies the production of the cities a 2nd time. When I loaded this past turn's save (which had warrior 1 turn away) the warrior popped up in Pamplona, and Madrid's settlers were one turn closer to being made.
This is an exploitable glitch that, perhaps, should be brought to someone's attention.
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dejon
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Your proposal for sites 2 and 3 makes alot of sense, Lord Togas. I am sure Señor Tamali can make a beautiful painting that captures your vision.
OOC:
Yes, I have noticed that bug. Each time I have to work with the save again, to do screenshots or such, I replay the turn from the original save, to avoid the bug. Works fine now, since we only have 5 units, but will get very annoying later. I wonder what will happen if Firaxis issues another patch - will everyone upgrade, or stick to 1.14?
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Togas
For consideration, I would like to hear the thought of the people, the notion of moving sites 2 & 3 towards each other.
For protection purposes, I am leaning towards placing Site 2 one space to the east, and placing Site 3 one space to the SW. This would put them both behind rivers, allow us to build roads behind the rivers that would get troops from one city to the next in exactly 1 turn, and give both cities VERY strong surrounding land with which to grow from.
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Site #3 is South of a River. I'll try to give you a close up of that in a day. But Yes, Site #2 is on the other side of a River. But It has the added benifit of having the city settled right on one of the Silks. THe City would also have the added benifit of also being on the coast, so that we can get full use of the 4 coastal tiles and have it for the building of a Western Fleet, if we so desire.
And, yes both sites are relatively close to Neu Theben, but of the 2 sites, Site 2 has a larger buffer of Jungle, Than Site 3 does. Site 2 has 4 Jungle tiles between it and Neu THeben's Boarder, where Site #3 has only 3.
With A proper Military Road Road Network AND not having a neighbor to our South & West, we are in a better defensive position than any of our Northern Neighbors.
quote:
Site 2 would have the following in its 9 tile radius: 8 river tiles, 1 game/forest, 1 grassland, 1 plains, 2 dyes.
Site 3 would have the following in its 9 tile radius: 6 river tiles, 1 game tile (shared), 2 sheilded grasslands, and 2 grasslands (one with horses).
As my computer's graphic program (MS paint) blows, I humbly ask for any volunteers who could better render this proposal and post it.
--Togas
p.s. Is anyone else who's loaded a "during the turn" save of the game noticed the following error? When I load a save that I made whilst in the middle of playing the turn, it applies the production of the cities a 2nd time. When I loaded this past turn's save (which had warrior 1 turn away) the warrior popped up in Pamplona, and Madrid's settlers were one turn closer to being made.
This is an exploitable glitch that, perhaps, should be brought to someone's attention. |
If you get it Verified, you might be able to get the bug named after you.
Anyways, let me get some more information for you and we can see waht we'll have.
Letus Eta Lamali.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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[OOC]
THis is a blowup of the 2 sites, with the city boarders. I've drawn the Rivers in to the map, as the Boarders overlay hides some of that detail.
This is the same area, but without the City Boarders. I circled the spots where #2 & #3 would be at.
And again, the same area. This shows the suggested moves by our Lord Togas in Orange, where they currently proposed sites are in blue. Thake note of the number of tiles that will be overlaped, between just those 2 cities, not to mention, the other cities that are to the south of them. This was the really Quick & Dirty part of it...
As you can see, it would have detrimental effect. It's something that we need to fully concider, but I highly recommend my original configuration.
E_T
[edit] something isn't right, they should be pictures and not links
[ReEdit] Fixed it. Lesson, do not use an '&' in an Image Link
Last edited by E_T on 06-01-2003 at 11:07
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by DAVOUT
The access to ocean is one of the reason why #2 is important, so I favor the initial site on the silk.
#3 could be one tile (or even 2) SW : this would give the 4 tiles jungle buffer, and the overlap with #2, is partly offset by a tile becoming usable and which was not in the initial setting.
As Togas said, cities of military importance should be at 3 tiles of road; this make possible a continuous flow of reinforcements. |
Having the distance between Cities at 3 doesn't make the movement of Mil Units easier, but the proper placements of Military roads does, so that you take full advantage of your movement, between the rivers.
If a 1 move unit starts out at City A, and it has to travel to City B, which would be 2 Turns to get to it (you want to have 1 bit of movement left, so that you can Attack from the city OR Fortify in the City). Now say that there is a River in between the two Cities (like Pamplona & Site #3). You want to try to structure your first Military Road Network, so that the end of you movement on the first turn is just when you cross the River. And After you have built up a large number of Roads, you sometimes have to force the movements of the units, so that they will cross at the point that you want them to, and don't lose any movement.
Sometimes you can't help the placement of either Cities and or the Mil Road Network, but you can try to have it the best that you can.
E_T
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DAVOUT
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AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:24
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quote:
Originally posted by E_T
Having the distance between Cities at 3 doesn't make the movement of Mil Units easier, but the proper placements of Military roads does, so that you take full advantage of your movement, between the rivers.
If a 1 move unit starts out at City A, and it has to travel to City B, which would be 2 Turns to get to it (you want to have 1 bit of movement left, so that you can Attack from the city OR Fortify in the City). Now say that there is a River in between the two Cities (like Pamplona & Site #3). You want to try to structure your first Military Road Network, so that the end of you movement on the first turn is just when you cross the River. And After you have built up a large number of Roads, you sometimes have to force the movements of the units, so that they will cross at the point that you want them to, and don't lose any movement.
Sometimes you can't help the placement of either Cities and or the Mil Road Network, but you can try to have it the best that you can.
E_T |
The rivers have only a temporary influence.
And I was not referring to the last move of units to the front, but to the whole travel of reinforcments from the producing city to the front. Ideally, a unit produced in turn X in a city five cities away from the front can arrive the same turn on the front when the process is engaged.
But nobody can contest that :*Sometimes you can't help the placement of either Cities and or the Mil Road Network, but you can try to have it the best that you can.
*
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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One thing that I've done, at least with defensive unit movements, is to do a stagered/shuttle type move. If I want that unit at city 4 and I produse it at city 1, and there are 2 cities between #1 & #4 (call them #'s 2 & 3), I have the first unti move frome 1 to 2, then I have the unit at 2 move to 3, 3 to 4. As for the Offensive Units, we would want to built the slower ones, closer and the faster ones, further away.
As for the River movement Penalty only being temporary, I just have to say that the Anchent Era can take a long time, without the AI to "boost" the tech rate. So our Current long term goals & Plans should take all of this into account.
E_T
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dejon
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quote:
Originally posted by E_T
I can't tell the difference between a Jungle tile & Forrest tile, with the old Terrain Graphics that come with the game. Could we use a few of the Terrain Mods that snOOpy had done. I can look at what I have and recommend the ones that I have found to look better.
I mostly use the forrest & Jungle Mods, as those are the hardest to distiguish frome each other.
E_T |
I have never used a mod before, so you'll have to tell me what to do as well as where to get them.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:24
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I'll have to dig up the Mods from the Creation Forum. As for installing them, you just replace the original file with the new file. You might want to move the original to a separate folder, before you do this, in case you don't like them.
Personally, I do NOT like the Irrigation Mod, but the New Forrest & Jungles look awsome. THe Rivers have a good mod, easier to see & the Flood Plains, too.
I'll have to make a quick screen shot, of all the terrains, from the editor, when I get the chance.
I can also Zip & attach them to some E-mail and send them to you.
E_T
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OliverFA
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Leeds, UK
Sep 2002
time: 06:24
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This idea about the mods would be a good one if it makes the rivers, jungle and forest easier to be seen
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03-01-2003 09:03
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