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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:25
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12PM, must sleep. Ignore the grammar errors.
As I said, you need to define "Jewish state" first. I'm not talking about Halacha law, but some focus on Jewish laws, even less than today, but most importantly a state that doesnt consider itself as only a state for it's citizens, but for all the world Jewry. That if hypothetically tommorow the Argentianian crisis becomes even worse and the situation is on the verge of hunger, the country should use all resources available to help those 200,000 Jews there, just like it would've done if they were citizens.
That if tommorow some crazy nazi Ahmed takes control of some country and starts killing all Jews, Israel should do anything in it's power to stop him, and not ignore it like often happens to African massacres and genocides.
That if there is a terrorist attack in planning against a Jewish target in some country and that country doesnt do enough or doesnt act swiftly enough, Israel should be the one who prevents the terract.
If Jews are discriminated somewhere, attacked somewhere, threatened somewhere, Israel should treat the situation like it's our own citizens who are in danger.
That's my definition of a Jewish state. And IMO this is more important than selecting between the bad choice and the even worst choice every 4(1.5) years. Not that I oppose Democracy, but if my definition of Jewish State is used then Liberman's statement is something I can agree with.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
Shinui have nothing against religion. they're against many religious laws that plague this country. btw Ned, do you really believe in creation and that kids should study it at school?  
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Azazel, You obviously are laboring under Democrat propaganda about the Republican Party. Of course, there are religious fanatics that want to impose religion on the Party and on the US. However, the Party never has adopted their platform, and rightly so. If it did adopt religious fanaticism as a platform, the Party would loose many relatively educated people.
As to creation vs. evolution: of course, I believe in evolution. IIRC from my Catholic grade school and high school days, the Church does not teach that evolution is incompatible with creation. What it teaches is the Bible is not always literally true; that the story of creation is an allegory and that it is compatible with evolution. The Church really learned a lesson from its conflict with Copernicus and Galileo. To the extent that science conflicts with the Bible, the Bible must be reinterpreted.
The problem you find is with fundamentalist Protestant religions that treat the Bible as speaking the unalloyed truth. Here you will find those who deny any science that conflicts with their own private interpretation of the Bible. I have had some interesting and frustrating conversations with these folks. But, just let me say, they do not represent the Republican Party.
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Edan
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Hah! I don't believe that for a minute. Think about it. There are very few rich. The working class is highly Democrat. So are the minorities. And yet, Republicans are half the country. The middle class in the US is Republican. |
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html
From 30k-75k, it averages out to about 49.5 for Bush, 47.5 for Gore. Take in to account that, IIRC, 80% of Nader voters would have voted for Gore as their second choice, with another 20% for Bush and you have about a 1% or less difference.
Look at those claiming to be middle class and it's even closer. (48-49-2)
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:25
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hi ,
some elections news ;
Ha'aretz - http://www.haaretzdaily.com
Ma'ariv - http://www.maariv.co.il
Yediot Aharonot - http://www.ynet.co.il
Globes - http://www.globes.co.il
Jerusalem Post - http://www.jpost.com
Hatzofeh comments that three terror attacks took place in the 24 hours after Yasser Arafat called for a ceasefire until after the elections. The editors praise the security sources for their efficiency and rapid mobilization against these attacks and believe that this undoubtedly prevented many more deaths. The paper believes that "As long as Arafat is in charge the terror activities will not cease, even if he continues to make his declarations, day and night" and calls on the government to get off the fence and take action against him.
Yediot Aharonot, in its second editorial, argues that whether or not the Israeli public wakes up to a new or old regime on January 29th, "One fact will be clear to them: This political system has spent itself." The editors argue that the two large parties have nothing to offer and call for a committee of experts, "not necessarily politicians, to consider what should be done to save democracy, mainly from itself. If a sensible and correct solution is not found, it will not be worthwhile for the parties to mothball their election campaigns, because next year... we will have to return to the ballot box."
The Jerusalem Post writes: "Much of the public, judging from the polls, is ready to believe that Sharon is no different from any other politician, all of whom are corrupt. Public opinion may be turning around, thanks to Central Elections Committee chairman Mishael Cheshin's heavy hand on the broadcast switch. But even so, fairness would seem to dictate that some attention be paid to Sharon's defense, rather than simply assuming his guilt. Sharon took a loan that appears to be entirely legal and transparent in order to voluntarily repay questionable campaign donations. The implication that the loan was some kind of bribe does not seem to make sense. If anything, the questions that arise from this episode concern the roles of the media and the Attorney-General's Office, from which a document requesting information from the South African authorities leaked."
Yediot Aharonot declares: "You do not need to be a music graduate to notice the new sounds emanating from afar. The voices of war in the Washington philharmonic orchestra are wavering and fading, weakening and becoming more distant." The editors comment that President Bush has lost the momentum for war and suggest that support for war is waning, "and therefore he will postpone the date of going out to fight again and again and again - until war breaks out."
Ha'aretz writes: "Prime Minister Ariel Sharon recently decided that agricultural lands should be rezoned to enable the city of Lod to expand so as to rescue the city from its economic distress, and he ordered government representatives in the state's planning institutions to support this decision. This order is a continuation of the Sharon government's ongoing efforts to deprive the planning institutions of any measure of professional independence and turn them instead into a disciplined tool for the implementation of government policy. The problem with this plan is that it does not actually strengthen the city; instead, it creates a neighborhood of single-family homes for the well-off that is essentially disconnected from the rest of the city. These homes will deprive the city of open spaces that were supposed to be landscaped gardens - but they will earn a lot of money for a few real-estate developers."
have a nice election day 
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Edan
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html
From 30k-75k, it averages out to about 49.5 for Bush, 47.5 for Gore. Take in to account that, IIRC, 80% of Nader voters would have voted for Gore as their second choice, with another 20% for Bush and you have about a 1% or less difference.
Look at those claiming to be middle class and it's even closer. (48-49-2) |
Edan, $30k per year is barely above the poverty line. I believe US per capita income is around $30k per year. For a family of 4, that is $120k per year. I would suggest, therefore, that middle class incomes for married people range from $80k at the low end to $500k at the high end. People who make more than $500k per year move into the lower upper income "rich" folks bracket.
Incomes between $30 and $75 are not middle class incomes except for young single people, and even there I would suggest the person should be making 50k+ to qualify as middle income.
What you are describing are working class incomes. I am not surprised they split 50-50.
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CyberGnu
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of the Virtual Serengeti
Apr 1999
time: 05:25
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Ned, from http://cber.cba.ua.edu/rbriefs/middle2.html
When asking Americans how they would describe their families' wealth and social status, most will answer with the non-descriptive label of "middle class." But what exactly does this mean? While there is no clear definition of who belongs in this group, there are a few guidelines for a rough sketch of an American middle class household.
First, on the basis of annual household after-tax income, most studies agree that the "middle class" is grouped around the national average, in the range of $21,300 to $63,300 (in 1996 dollars). The lower and upper ends of this range represent the 20th and 90th percentile of the population, accounting for 70 percent of U.S. households. This definition includes all sources of income, from wages to Social Security to food stamps.
Some authors propose that 75 percent and 125 percent of the national median should be used as the extremes. In 1994, the median income in the United States was $32,264, therefore the "middle class" range would be from $24,198 to $40,330. Using the 75/125 method means almost 25 percent of the U.S. population is middle class.
Other methods for categorizing the middle class include social criteria (based on factors such as educational level and occupation) and certain income indices. One of these indices rates households on an income-to-needs basis, where a score of one signifies household income that borders on the poverty level. Using this ratio, middle class can be defined as scores ranging from 2 to 5, which was approximately 50 percent of American households in 1989.
Of course, everything is relative. I made about $20k in Indiana, and had a pretty decent living standard. $30k in LA gave me almost the same lifestyle... And I was in no way impoverished. Since last month I also got a raise, and with my current salary of $40k I feel quite well off.
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Oh, btw, someone said earlier that Sharon was a socialist. Is this true? I thought that the Likud was a free enterprise party. |
Yes, the Likud. But Sharon is a Mapainik, 30 years ago he was a member of Mapai and he still supports their economic policies.
(mapai - The Party of the workers in Eretz Israel)
It's very interesting actually. While the Labor is the offspring of Mapai, security wise the more radical Right Wingers of the Likud(the offspring of Herut, Mapai's great foe) are the ones who share Mapai's views.
So that radical Sharon 30 years ago, in addition to the economy issue, with all his anti-arabism was fitting to Mapai's policy quite well. Well, he was a bit too active, but at least ideology wise it's true.
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:25
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Heaviest Element Discovered
>
> A major research institution has recently announced the discovery of the
> heaviest chemical element yet known to science. The new element has been
> tentatively named "Governmentium."
>
> Governmentium has 1 neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons,
> and 11 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These
> 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are
> surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons.
>
> Since governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be
> detected as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact.
>
> A minute amount of governmentium causes one reaction to take over 4 days
> to complete when it would normally take less than a second.
>
> Governmentium has a normal half-life of 3 years; it does not decay, but
> instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant
> neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places. In fact, Governmentium's
> mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will
> cause some morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.
>
> This characteristic of moron-promotion leads some scientists to speculate
> that governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in
> concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as "Critical
> Morass."
hi ,
this comes from a knesset member , .......
have a nice day
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sabrewolf
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turicum, helvetistan
Jun 2002
time: 06:25
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i (for peace, negotiations, secularism, pro economy, pro wellfare, no opinion on pollution and immigrants) got following
1. hadash, 2. meretz, 3. balad, 4. ra'am, 5. shinui
... 9. likud, ....
13. shas, 14. herut, 15. national union
so what are these parties? i don't know 1, 3, 4 and 14. and no information available with the links... azazel?
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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:25
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Hadash,Balad&Raam - Arabs. I really dont know the difference though there is one.
Herut is pretty much the most radical (Jewish) party there is. They're on the verge of nazism.
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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:25
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More news from the front  :
I was at a house-circle (meeting with a political VIP in a house of someone well known in the elites  ) with Knesset Memeber Roman Bromfan.
There are some things that meretz leadership has finally realized, but I can't talk, hush-hush. 
Very interesting meeting, though when the (self-admittedly lacking any serious history knowledge) hostess started spewing uncorrect things about the history of the conflict, I had to interfere. But then the MK came in, and the QnA/tactics session started. Later, I've returned to confront her, a close friend of my father btw, and after failing to reply to a couple of questions she resorted to ad hominems ( "you have an unpleasant tendency..." ).
Hadash: when the CPI r.i.p. merged with some arab block. supposed communists, but they're not. ( read previous pages, lack of agenda, homophobic arab members, etc. )
Balad: an arab nationalist party.
Raam: a party with strong religious roots, close affiliate to the Islamic Movement of Israel (IMI  ) .
Ned: you're a perfect Israeli centrist. congrats.
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15-01-2003 01:46
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