15-01-2003 10:01									#121
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Frightening powers Frogger? In Canada you can be thrown in jail for SAYING something 'improper' and non-politically correct.

	15-01-2003 10:04									#122
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a) I disagree with hate speech legislation
b) It's not for saying something "improper". When you put quotes around something in this context, it implies that you've read the law and are quoting from it
c) My country's not the one that held thousands of people without charging them for months

	15-01-2003 10:04									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Canada never went running to the US to protect it during the Cold War. In fact, the US was the one who was asking Canada and other Nato nations to help. I can't recall anytime when the other Nato nations asked the US to contribute more.

So many places I could with that one.

	15-01-2003 10:05									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Hah. Your police have frightening powers, but you haven't sold your freedom? I'll bear that in mind.

The government looked so doe-eyed when they asked for such powers. How could we refuse such cuteness?!?

	15-01-2003 10:06									#125
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Floridation

	15-01-2003 10:06									#126
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Oh, and d) my country's also not the one that seems to be of the opinion that a person's birthplace is enough to merit special treatment if they ever come to the attention of the authorities

	15-01-2003 10:07									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker So many places I could with that one.

I agree. That one is too easy.

	15-01-2003 10:07									#128
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The government looked so doe-eyed when they asked for such powers. How could we refuse such cuteness?!?

I know the administration attempts to hide its nefarious intentions behind the antics of the Simian in Chief, but you got to look beyond that.

	15-01-2003 10:11									#129
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Frogger, when someone is declared an unlawful combatent that is a charge.

	15-01-2003 10:12									#130
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a) that's not what I was referring to
b) no it isn't

	15-01-2003 10:16									#131
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I believe he's referring to the immigrants that we detained shortly after 9/11.

	15-01-2003 10:17									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger a) that's not what I was referring to b) no it isn't

Are you talking about the illegal immagrents who were arrested? If so, they did break laws, but their treatment is pretty crappy.

	15-01-2003 10:19									#133
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Frogger, my question is what does Canada do when someone is illegally living in the country? And what is the legal definition of hate speech?

	15-01-2003 10:19									#134
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They weren't arrested, they were detained. For several months. That's unconstitutional.

	15-01-2003 10:26									#135
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Ramo, are you talking the illegal immigrants or the Afghan fighters?

	15-01-2003 10:28									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Kingof the Apes Are you talking about the illegal immagrents who were arrested? If so, they did break laws, but their treatment is pretty crappy.

They were held, without charge, for periods approaching 6 months or a year. That was against your own laws, and if not then your country sucks ass.

	15-01-2003 10:29									#137
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quote: Originally posted by cia Frogger, my question is what does Canada do when someone is illegally living in the country? And what is the legal definition of hate speech?

If they are illegally here then they are arrested, charged, given a speedy trial and deported or not. Yours were held for months without seeing a lawyer. Police state tactics. Thuggery. Despicable.

	15-01-2003 10:32									#138
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The question of what you did and are still doing with the prisoners of war in Guantanamo is a different story. You are breaking international law, not domestic law. Just as bad, but nothing to do with your police's powers (unless and until such time as said treatment is applied to those arrested/detained/captured inside your country).

	15-01-2003 10:36									#139
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quote: Ramo, are you talking the illegal immigrants or the Afghan fighters?

Illegal immigrants. Of course the indefinite detention due to the "illegal combatant" label for the Taleban fighers was certainly wrong, but not necessarily unconstitutional.

	15-01-2003 10:37									#140
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quote: You are breaking international law

No we're not.

quote: Police state tactics. Thuggery. Despicable.

	15-01-2003 10:38									#141
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Since when are ILLEGAL immigrants covered under the Constitution of the United States?!
Is the whole world and all it's people under our legal system?

	15-01-2003 10:41									#142
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Court decision in 2000. Hold on, I'll look up the case.

	15-01-2003 10:45									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Alexander's Horse, this reads like a liberal/leftist wish list. The question really should be is why the rest of the West shifted so strongly to the left after WWII while the US did not.

I think that has a lot to do with the McCarthy hearings and other aspects of the 'Red Scare'. Americans tend to see things as black and white rather than shades of grey; the Scare had the effect of giving socialism a significant negative image with us, regardless of whether it was justified or not.
.

	15-01-2003 10:45									#144
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So it's okay to just grab people off the streets of your country, not let them see a lawyer and disappear them into a black hole for 6 months? Your own Constitution says that it's unacceptable. If they broke the law in entering your country then you try them under the law. Your police had no legal authority to detain them without charging them.

quote: No we're not.

Yes you are. You do not have the authority to declare unilaterally who is and who is not a POW. Those captured on the battlefield have a prima facia (sp?) case for being POWs, and need to be given some sort of formal hearing to determine their status. If it is determined that they are POWs, (irrespective of whether or not they engaged in illegal acts against the US) then you have the obligation to give them a fair trial and treatment similar to one which would be given to a US citizen or member of the US military. If you cannot convict them then you have the obligation to return them to freedom within a reasonable timeframe after the war they were captured during is over. There are also limits on the length and conditions of questioning you can subject them to.

	15-01-2003 10:46									#145
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Actually it was in 2001 (hmmm time flies). Zadvydas v. Davis.

	15-01-2003 10:49									#146
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quote: Originally posted by cia Since when are ILLEGAL immigrants covered under the Constitution of the United States?! Is the whole world and all it's people under our legal system?

I was under the impression that your police have restrictions placed on them for all those which are in their custody. That's the way it works here, honey.

Amendment 5, US Constitution:

"No person...shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

	15-01-2003 10:52									#147
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quote: Originally posted by cia Since when are ILLEGAL immigrants covered under the Constitution of the United States?! Is the whole world and all it's people under our legal system?

Just those held by your police. Your laws apply to all those within the geographic boundaries of the US. Noncitizens are entitled to the same rights and freedoms as you are unless specifically stated. You can't murder an illegal immigrant, neither can the authorities detain him indefinitely without charging him.

	15-01-2003 10:53									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Everyone else lost more, relative to their pop. We lost 60 000 with a pop. a tenth of yours, and we were all the way across the ocean from the fighting. Never mind how light you got off in WWI...

I don't think we got off light at all, considering how we didn't start the damn thing in the first place.

	15-01-2003 10:54									#149
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and we did?

	15-01-2003 10:56									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Court decision in 2000. Hold on, I'll look up the case.

Is Ex parte Quirin still valid law?