07-02-2003 02:45									#31
	Tired of ads?

Good luck GF.
Try to get writing

	16-02-2003 19:43									#32
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I suspose this is the best place for this post:

ND has proven to be a wonderful ally. Perhaps we should consider making them a permanate ally. We give them maps when ever they ask for them. They give us maps when ever we ask for them. We ALWAYs gift new techs with each other whenever the techs are finished. Permanent Wine trade to them. Permanent Mutual Aid. We consult each other before tech trades are made with the other teams. Worker requests. Hell! Lets trade all our workers so neither of our work forces cost us anything to maintain! Yes we are Industrious so a 2 for 1 deal might need to be worked out (maybe a 3 for 2 deal because, although our workers are faster, they would need to spend 20 shields and two pop points for every 10 shields and 1 pop we spend).
Suggestions?

	18-02-2003 04:55									#33
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From Borc today:

quote: Hello Ghengis! I asked my people if they would like to have a new warroom chat with you and the GoW leaders. At least darekill and i have time tuesday at 8 pm (gmt+1), that means for you: tuesday 1 pm (gmt-6) would you like to come? would be great! by the way: Role founded a new city near the silk cluster in our south :-( And Congratz for Nanking! :-) good luck Borc

	18-02-2003 05:55									#34
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I think thats 6.00am for me.
I MIGHT drag myself out of bed to attend.

Regs

	18-02-2003 07:07									#35
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I won't be there until 3:30PM GMT-5 (1.5 hours after start)

	18-02-2003 19:42									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 I won't be there until 3:30PM GMT-5 (1.5 hours after start)

What? I thought you wanted it 2-2.5 hours EARLIER.

quote: Hi GhengisFarb! we can start it two hour earlier: at least darekill and me will come 6pm (GMT+1) that should be 11am of your time (GMT-6) good luck!

	18-02-2003 19:46									#37
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

GF- if you can get it to its original time, I can be there... well, I can be there any time today actually... turns out the thing that was taking me away isn't happening.

	19-02-2003 01:18									#39
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This is where I am going to post the treaty that is to be sent to Darekill and Borc. Panzer, when I write it, edit this post to include the map at the top of the post. then edit/ whatever you think is needed. The others can look at it and I will send it to ND by the end of tonight.

Contract between Neu Demogyptia and the Glory of War.

As per the map titled Glory of War - Neu Demogyptica Territorial Agreement (territorymarked.jpg) which is attached to this document.

1. ND is to found the city here fore refered to as "Irongard". Once this city, the Iron in its city radius and the two empires of Neu Demogyptia and the Glory of War are all connected, then a trade of Iron from Neu Demogyptia to the Glory of War is to be made. In game, it will say that this trade will expire in 20 turns. Once this time expires, the deal will be continued. The trade will continue until one of two things happens.
a) When the Emipre of Spain (the Roleplay team) is eliminated, then Neu Demogyptia will gift the city referred to as Irongrad to the Glory of War.
b) There is less than two sourses of Iron connected between either empire. This contract will then be needed to be renegotiated.

2. The area of Lux Invicta shall be settled on the north coast by the Glory of War and on the East coast by Neu Demogyptia in order to prevent Vox Controli from settling on the Continent of Middle Bob. Again, upon the elimination on Spain, the cities in this area are all to be gifted to Glory of War.

3. Neu Demogyptica and the Glory of War will declare war on the Roleplay team on the same turn. This turn is not yet decided, but it must be agreed to by both teams.
a) At least 10 swordsmen from Neu Demogyptica and 10 horsemen from the Glory of War are to be used in attacking Roleplay. This is an absolute minimum, and it is expected that teams will produce more than this.

4. Limited trading will be allowed between both teams and Roleplay team. This will stay in effect until the simultaneous declaration of war on Roleplay. Every trade that either team makes with Roleplay must be agreed upon by both teams.

5. A Right of Passage will be agreed to by both teams. This will not be an in game agreement, but one that allows the transport of troops through one another's territory.
a) Neu Demogyptia will leave Glory of War worker stacks unmolested inside the cultural border of Neu Demogyptia to facilitate the clearing of the vast southern jungle.

6. After the Roleplay team is defeated, the enitire continent will be scruitinized, and divided up by exactly 50%. This includes 50% of the tiles and 50% of the resources. Approximatly, the eastern part of the continent will be given to the Glory of War, and the western part will be given to Neu Demogyptica.

Edited by Panzer32 - post anything that you see missing.

Last edited by Panzer32 on 19-02-2003 at 02:23

	19-02-2003 02:24									#40
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Editing Donegeal's post resulted in cannot find server, so new post:

This is where I am going to post the treaty that is to be sent to Darekill and Borc. Panzer, when I write it, edit this post to include the map at the top of the post. then edit/ whatever you think is needed. The others can look at it and I will send it to ND by the end of tonight.

Contract between Neu Demogyptia and the Glory of War.

As per the map titled Glory of War - Neu Demogyptica Territorial Agreement (territorymarked.jpg) which is attached to this document.

1. ND is to found the city here fore refered to as "Irongard". Once this city, the Iron in its city radius and the two empires of Neu Demogyptia and the Glory of War are all connected, then a trade of Iron from Neu Demogyptia to the Glory of War is to be made. In game, it will say that this trade will expire in 20 turns. Once this time expires, the deal will be continued. The trade will continue until one of two things happens.
a) When the Emipre of Spain (the Roleplay team) is eliminated, then Neu Demogyptia will gift the city referred to as Irongrad to the Glory of War.
b) There is less than two sourses of Iron connected between either empire. This contract will then be needed to be renegotiated.

2. The area of Lux Invicta shall be settled on the north coast by the Glory of War and on the East coast by Neu Demogyptia in order to prevent Vox Controli from settling on the Continent of Middle Bob. Again, upon the elimination on Spain, the cities in this area are all to be gifted to Glory of War.

3. Neu Demogyptica and the Glory of War will declare war on the Roleplay team on the same turn. This turn is not yet decided, but it must be agreed to by both teams.
a) At least 10 swordsmen from Neu Demogyptica and 10 horsemen from the Glory of War are to be used in attacking Roleplay. This is an absolute minimum, and it is expected that teams will produce more than this.

4. Limited trading will be allowed between both teams and Roleplay team. This will stay in effect until the simultaneous declaration of war on Roleplay. Every trade that either team makes with Roleplay must be agreed upon by both teams.

5. A Right of Passage will be agreed to by both teams. This will not be an in game agreement, but one that allows the transport of troops through one another's territory.
a) Neu Demogyptia will leave Glory of War worker stacks unmolested inside the cultural border of Neu Demogyptia to facilitate the clearing of the vast southern jungle.

6. After the Roleplay team is defeated, the enitire continent will be scruitinized, and divided up by exactly 50%. This includes 50% of the tiles and 50% of the resources. Approximatly, the eastern part of the continent will be given to the Glory of War, and the western part will be given to Neu Demogyptica.

I think the part that I put in Bold was not agreed to. Plus, if you look at the map of Middle Bob, that leaves us with no desert or tundra. That means no oil. No oil means we loose.

Personally, I think that the continent will be divided north and south, not W/E. Let me know what you think.

Last edited by Donegeal on 19-02-2003 at 02:34

	19-02-2003 02:27									#41
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oops - I guess it did work...

	19-02-2003 03:03									#42
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Copy of Contract I am going to send to Borc to hammer out before they send it on to there team. Please let me know what the rest of you think before I send this. Also, should I send it to Borc, Borc and Darekill or just Darekill? I prefer Borc only as he is more gulliable er I mean listen better...

Contract between Neu Demogyptia and the Glory of War.

As per the map titled Glory of War - Neu Demogyptica Territorial Agreement (territorymarked.jpg) which is attached to this document.

1. ND is to found the city here fore refered to as "Irongard". Once this city, the Iron in its city radius and the two empires of Neu Demogyptia and the Glory of War are all connected, then a trade of Iron from Neu Demogyptia to the Glory of War is to be made. In game, it will say that this trade will expire in 20 turns. Once this time expires, the deal will be continued. The trade will continue until one of two things happens.
a) When the Emipre of Spain (the Roleplay team) is eliminated, then Neu Demogyptia will gift the city referred to as Irongrad to the Glory of War.
b) There is less than two sourses of Iron connected between either empire. This contract will then be needed to be renegotiated.

2. The area of Lux Invicta shall be settled on the north coast by the Glory of War and on the East coast by Neu Demogyptia in order to prevent Vox Controli from settling on the Continent of Middle Bob. Again, upon the elimination on Spain, the cities in this area are all to be gifted to Glory of War.

3. Neu Demogyptica and the Glory of War will declare war on the Roleplay team on the same turn. This turn is not yet decided, but it must be agreed to by both teams.
a) At least 10 swordsmen from Neu Demogyptica and 10 horsemen from the Glory of War are to be used in attacking Roleplay. This is an absolute minimum, and it is expected that teams will produce more than this.

4. Limited trading will be allowed between both teams and Roleplay team. This will stay in effect until the simultaneous declaration of war on Roleplay. Every trade that either team makes with Roleplay must be agreed upon by both teams.

5. A Right of Passage will be agreed to by both teams. This will not be an in game agreement, but one that allows the transport of troops through one another's territory.
a) Neu Demogyptia will leave Glory of War worker stacks unmolested inside the cultural border of Neu Demogyptia to facilitate the clearing of the vast southern jungle.

6. After the Roleplay team is defeated, the enitire continent will be scruitinized, and divided up by exactly 50%. This includes 50% of the tiles and 50% of the resources.

	19-02-2003 03:34									#43
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb What? I thought you wanted it 2-2.5 hours EARLIER.

I am glad I didnt wake up at 6.00am
The chat would of been finished by then.


Panzer, where did the map come from ?
A lot of territory is showing that we should not really know about...(ie the ocean tiles)

If we generated it, then we should NOT send it to ND , as they will know we have "cheated"
If it has come from ND, then they are doing something they shouldnt be doing.

	19-02-2003 05:26									#44
	Got spare money?

No, we did not cheat HE. I made the map, tile by tile in the editor. I e-mailed everyone a BIX file so they can look at it. The ocean is because that is the default tile.

What do you think of the document?

	19-02-2003 06:05									#45
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Ahhhh

You made it from scratch ....
Let me congratulate you on your effort.

If ND are unaware of what you have done, then perhaps also explain it to them. We risk that they make the same mistake as I did.

As to the document.......
I can only ask...

Point 2...
Perhaps define what area needs to be settled.
What is the North Coast ?
What is East Coast ? Does it include Southern Lux ?

And as a general question, as I did not attend the chat.

Why does ND get to settle Irongrad ?
Could we do it ourselves ?

The plan also requires the gifting of many cities in the future.
IIRC, cultural improvements are lost when cities are gifted....and in fact who would do any improvements to a city which is likely to be given away ?
Has there been some agreement on this.

eg...ND settles IronGrad
They build a temple, and the borders expand.
They get the Iron.

When they gift Irongrad to us, the temples are destroyed, and culture is reset to 0.
We lose the Iron, and will have to do a cultural war with ND to regain it back.
(I am just raising this as an issue because if they turn on us, they can easily cut our iron supply off.)

The document is well written, I guess I am more concerned that we just could not agree on a border, and stay out of each others territory.

It seems ND will gift us a lot more cities that we will ever gift them ?

The plan to attack RP next is excellent.

Regs

	19-02-2003 06:20									#46
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel When they gift Irongrad to us, the temples are destroyed, and culture is reset to 0. We lose the Iron, and will have to do a cultural war with ND to regain it back. (I am just raising this as an issue because if they turn on us, they can easily cut our iron supply off.)

I am thinking we should build a boat once we have attained Mapmaking and establish a colony on one of the southern Iron resources near Roleplay.

	19-02-2003 07:14									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, the issue over Irongard was well covered. That issue alone took over half the chat to work out. The issue was that we can't get to the site before they do and they already decided that they were going to settle there. the issue now will be them giving us the city. If they don't.. we crush them. In the long term, this entire document works out to their favor because it gives them more land. But, it is usless land. By the time we have stomped RP out, we should have a larger Military because our land is more productive. This means that if they decide to renig on our deal when RP is done, we will still be able to crush them. Or, like GF stated, we can have an iron conlony or city somewhere on Southern Middle Bob or maybe even on Un-Bob somewhere.

As it is, it has been several hours since I posted this. I am going to send it to Darekill and Borc (along with a message about where we got the map)

	19-02-2003 07:28									#48
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What are the supplies like on the Vox / GS continent ?

If those two are going to war, we can align with one against the other, for the payment of iron.


Establishing a colony would make RP real happy, given they have "claimed" it all.

I cant believe RP are still settling city sites so far away from their capital trying to grab territory.
Have they learnt nothing from Lux ?

	19-02-2003 07:47									#49
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quote: I cant believe RP are still settling city sites so far away from their capital trying to grab territory. Have they learnt nothing from Lux ?

They are confident in the nonagression pacts they have signed with us and ND.

quote: What are the supplies like on the Vox / GS continent ?

I don't know as of yet, but I hope that we can trade each team mapmaking for their world map ASAP.

	28-02-2003 12:27									#50
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From Darekill:

quote: Hello, the Treaty is almost through now. So we can continue as planed. Open Questions: My people want some wine could it be part of the negotiations concerning the cityvalue of the cities we have to build that will later be donatet to you. My People want to know when and how many workers you'll be able to send to clear the jungle. Finally i want to know if there could be a chat?

What I plan to send back:

quote: Yes, we had planned on providing you with Wine once we got our capitals connected. My teammates are wanting to know if it is time for our civs to make peace with Lux, once we make peace we can establish an embassy which should show us the location of their new capital. It will be a while on workers as are city populations aren't very large due to the recent settler builds. We are building a worker/settler set soon that will establish a city near two Game resources for the sole purpose of producing a Worker every other turn but it will have to reach size 4-5 to do that. Then we will probably send 4-6 workers to help with the jungle.

Part of the Grand Plan is to build the camp site to the northeast of Imperial city, and use the two Game tiles to set up a city with a granary to produce a worker every other turn.

These workers will then go to our cities on the rivers improve a tile and add themselves to the city thus speeding up their growth rates.

---

Couldn't find this anywhere so I figure I will upload it again. This is the map ND sent us a couple of turns ago.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 28-02-2003 at 15:23

	28-02-2003 14:50									#51
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Good Response - Lets send it and lock in our agreement ASAP.

Only 1 small thing, I see that ND will have 3 lots of spices. It would not hurt to ask if we get a share.

Regs

	28-02-2003 15:22									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Good Response - Lets send it and lock in our agreement ASAP. Only 1 small thing, I see that ND will have 3 lots of spices. It would not hurt to ask if we get a share. Regs

That should be worked out when we divide the continent up evenly, we currently will have one Spice, one Gem and the ENTIRE world supply of Wine so I don't see it as necessarily important right now.

	28-02-2003 17:36									#53
	Got spare money?

1. How stupid is RP ? Lux puts border pressure on ND, and gets destroyed. Yet RP makes the same mistake. Plus these cities would be very corrupt.

	15-03-2003 14:21									#54
	Got spare money?

From Darekill;

quote: Hello Ghengis. Just some Info and questions. First of all thank you for Polytheism. We appreciate it. Now back to actual Buissiness. Spain demands the redrawel of our southern Scout Arne. Thy fear he could block something. We will redraw him just to make sure they don't get to suspicious. Legoland offers us 50g for our map. I have started an six hour poll about that so you will have to wait a while for the save. What is your opinion about that? They are not willing anyhow to send their map to us. I think we could use that as an excuse for unawreness of settling on Legos. So we will not insist. We want to give you spices but the situation is like that: Our new Town Anablanca will be connected to our roadsystem no sooner then in abaout 15 turns a long time. The spicesource near Dar-El-Killam will be in our cultural territory in 19 turns. That is the situation. My idea is, you have a slave from Lux that does surly not work so fast. So if you are interestet in having spice soon, just send us that slave and we'll make him a colony then so you get your spice earlier. Just consider it. What happened to the Barbhut close to DEK and Liechtenstein? Did you take it? Greetings Darekill

	15-03-2003 19:21									#55
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I don't think that we urgently need spices, mainly because in my spreadsheet analysis, I don't see any city going to size 5 any time soon (this is assuming we keep REXing, and don't switch to full production of Horses).

	29-03-2003 01:58									#56
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I think it would be a good idea to post the final version of the agreement between us and ND.
________________________________

Contract between Neu Demogyptia and the Glory of War.

Both parties agree that this treaty has to be handled confidentionally and is for our eyes only. Neither party is allowed to talk about this or to post any details about this in the public forum of Apolyton.

As per the map titled Glory of War - Neu Demogyptica Territorial Agreement (territorymarked.jpg) which is attached to this document.

1. ND is to found the city here fore refered to as "Irongard". Once this city, the iron in its city radius and the two empires of Neu Demogyptia and the Glory of War are all connected, then a trade of Iron from Neu Demogyptia to the Glory of War is to be made. In game, it will say that this trade will expire in 20 turns. Once this time expires, the deal will be continued. The trade will continue either until the Emipre of Spain (the Roleplay team) is eliminated, or if a mutual agreement is made to end the war early. Then Neu Demogyptia will gift the city referred to as Irongard to the Glory of War.

2. The area of Lux Invicta shall be settled on the north coast by the Glory of War and on the East coast by Neu Demogyptia in order to prevent Vox Controli from settling on the Continent of Bob. Again, upon the elimination of Spain, the cities in this area are all to be gifted to Glory of War. An adequate compensation for cities that will be giftet is subject to further negotiations. Valuations of cities are to be finalised before war is declared on Roleplay. Non-agreement on a valuation method will allow either team to void this contract.

3. Neu Demogyptica and the Glory of War will declare war on the Roleplay team on the same turn. This turn is not yet decided, but it must be agreed to by both teams at least 20 turns beforehand or later if mutually agreed upon. At least 10 swordsmen from Neu Demogyptica and 10 horsemen from the Glory of War are to be used in attacking Roleplay. This is an absolute minimum, and it is expected that teams will produce more than this.

4. a) Both teams agree to work together in technology research. Details will be worked out in a separate treaty.
b) Limited trading will be allowed between both teams and Roleplay team. This will stay in effect until the simultaneous declaration of war on Roleplay. Every trade that either team makes with Roleplay must be agreed upon by both teams.

5. A Right of Passage will be agreed to by both teams. This will not be an in game agreement, but one that allows the transport of troops through one another's territory. Neu Demogyptia will leave Glory of War worker stacks unmolested inside the cultural border of Neu Demogyptia to facilitate the clearing of the vast southern jungle.

6. After the Roleplay team is defeated, the enitire continent will be scruitinized, and divided up by exactly 50%. This includes 50% of the tiles and 50% of the resources.

7. This contract cannot be denounced by either team before the Roleplay-Team is defeated and the changing of towns has been done. After fullfilling the changes of towns, the contract can be denounced observing a 30 turns-period of notice.

8. There will be a nonagression treaty in place between th Glory of War and Neu Demogyptia for the duration of this agreement.

	30-03-2003 02:42									#57
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I think its time to start talking with ND to see how we're going to divide up Bob after the Roleplay campaign. In the agreement, we agreed that Bob would be divided up with equal tiles and resources. Here is a map with all of the resources of Bob, colour coded by type of resource.

	30-03-2003 03:30									#58
	Put an end to popups!

I counted the tiles in Bob, in seperate areas. 685 tiles. What I did was start with a basic boarder proposal (red), and add areas that the boarder may vary. I would prefer to have alot of ND's land, and split the continent N-S, I don't think ND would agree...

	03-04-2003 21:02									#59
	Increase the size of your Attachments

From Darekill:

quote: quote: Darekill wrote on 03-04-2003 07:25: quote: Greetings amigo! Sorry it's been a bit longer than usual between communiques, but Real Life is starting to intrude a little. Hope things are going smoothly. Lord Togas has got me to ask you about your Iron trade with GoW. Why are you doing that? We're a little confused, especially since we thought that we were fairly united in our concern for GoW's dealings with Vox netting them that city Vox founded on our lands. Moreover, we thought that it would be in both our best interests if we kept Iron away from them, thus meaning we neither of us had anything to fear from GoW in the Medieval Era. They have certainly shown to be agents of chaos, and as we know they are "Mercenaries for hire". Can you let me know something about your intentions and the details of the trade so I can ease my King's troubled brow? To a happier side now - tech trades. We have recently acquired the following techs and are more than happy to talk about offers for trading for them with you guys: Monarchy Construction Currency Monotheism. I know you guys don't want Monarchy and are working on Currency, but are you interested in any of these? Any reasonable offer would be good and beneift us both. That's it for now I guess. Keep in touch, MrWIA. We are still concerned about GoW and there are certain tensions in our realtions that is true but the trade with the iron has been fixed while Vox was landing troops and though we feel that this could have been a trick we stand to our word. That is why they got iron we did get something too and that is the reason why we have realy little intrest in you gacious offer. We have researched currency and got construction and the republic elsewher. The only tech that you can offer is monarchy and it is as i already mentioned of little interest for us. We will keep the contact and i will inform you about our nest researchgoal so we can go sure not to run for the same. your friend Darekill Just to make sure we don't tell diffrent storys where we should tell teh same ones

And also:

quote: Hello from ND. than kyou for the republic and the currency, it is always a pleasure to do buissnes with you. My time as Governor will end in three turns. Turn 750BC will be the first of our new Governor Mav_Son. The elections are still running but it looks as if he will make the race. It is not so hard to see that since there was only one candidate His e-mail adress is: mav_son@gmx.ch please contact him for any negotiations now as well as me and Borc. The vicegovernor will be either me or Borc. This is a close call and we still don't know who will win. If there are any news concerning GS or anything else maybe it is a good idea to comunicat per e-mail since i seem to miss you often in the chat....

	03-04-2003 21:27									#60
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Just checking, do they know what we're doing over there with GS?