03-04-2003 21:42									#61
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I have been trying to get in a chat with Borc, Darekill and Mav_Son. I have as of yet been able to catch one while on line. Well, I catch them but by the time the return my PM I am gone...

I believe they know something is up.

	04-04-2003 01:05									#62
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There. I got a chance to talk to Darekill. I told him of the immenant Vox/GS war and that we would be assiting. They will be unable to commit any troops to the fight but may be willing to contribute some money. I gave him some rough numbers on the size of the offensive but did not mention our temporary weak offensive abilities on Bob.

On another note...Trip caught me in the chat room as well. He said that ND has told him what is going on with them and that he has been allowed in Vox, RP and Lego's forums. He is in disscussions with GS now, leaving us as the sole survivor. He did do a fabalous job of NOT revealing any information. He wouldn't even tell me info that he knew I already knew. I was quiet impressed. Per chance we should let him in or at the least, tell him some of our plans.

	18-04-2003 22:12									#63
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just a reminder: ND-GoW chat in 40 minutes (8:00PM GMT)

	18-04-2003 23:36									#64
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is nobody coming?? Not even ND is there...

	19-04-2003 01:23									#65
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Did you not get the email I forwarded?

Mavson stated he felt we should reschedule due to Good Friday and all.

	20-04-2003 13:44									#66
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Zayxus did show up and we chatted a long time with him. Chat was so fun even Shiber and Aeson joined up , and in fact started spamming our channel.

BTW, that's where the whole "mammoth stacks of shibering workers" phrase came out of

I'll e-mail mav_son to see when we can reschedule the chat

	21-04-2003 09:43									#67
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I have just noticed ND's city "Thordoba" has had cultural border expansion.

I remind everyone, that we have an agreement with ND, that they were going to gift/swap this city to us, once RP is destroyed.

I ask then...why are they building cultural improvements which do not get transferred with the city ?

And my second point is...even if they do transfer the city to us, we still do not automatically get the Iron source. Iron will still fall under Dar-El-Killam, and we would be forced to build a temple, and hope our cultural strength is greater than ND's to push them off the iron.

I do not think ND has any intention of gifting us that city. In fact, I think they are going to try and make us dependent on their iron so as to keep us in line.

We need to either -

1.
Get a second source from another civ. I suggest that Vox now becomes our partner in this. I still think they will be pissed with us for "extorting" a cheap price for engineering from them. But we need to ensure these guys remain good trading partners..and perhaps our final partners until the final shoot off. (I would rather go against Vox than any other team as the final two)

2.
Get our own resource from ex-RP lands. But again, this will take time building either a harbour or a road. And this city will be open to attack from ND if they ever turn on us.

3. Negotiate with ND to settle a city I have marked as X. This will ensure we get the iron, and we will only have to worry about cultural flipping...which we would expect ND to decline if it ever happens.

	21-04-2003 12:16									#68
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Vox, Roleplay, GS, and Lego have all offered to supply us with Iron.

Thordoba would gain the Iron from DarKilligan once its culture expanded because its extended city radius does not overlap with DarK's.

	21-04-2003 12:41									#69
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Also, depending on how the ultimate Bob partition agreement end, we might get Dar-El-Killam too.

	21-04-2003 14:50									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Also, depending on how the ultimate Bob partition agreement end, we might get Dar-El-Killam too.

That's what I was thinking.

Probably those two ND cities, Madrid and the coastal edge up to our territory and ND getting the southwestern chunk.

	21-04-2003 18:22									#71
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Thordoba will get that Iron supply when it expands. It is in its city radius, and not in Dar-El-Killam's

	21-04-2003 19:11									#72
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When looking at our agreement, I prefer to view it from ND's perspective.

If I was ND, would I give up Iron and another city that I have invested cultural improvements in.

And the answer to me..would be no.

However..we have other concerns at the moment..and there is nothing we can do about it...so it's not a big deal...yet

	07-05-2003 13:25									#73
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Finally got a response from mav_son about a future chat:

quote: Hello Master Zen, Sorry for not responding. But as You wrote, the game stands still and so I didn't check my gmx-account (that I only opened for this game). Darekill posted the E-Mail, that You sent him, in our Forum, and now I am also up to date. Sorry again! We take a look at the timeschedule of our team-mates and let You know. Have a nice day mav_son > Hello mav_son, > > I have tried contacting you by e-mail to see when we could schedule a > chat between the Glory of War and Neu Demogyptica but have recieved no > response. As you know, there is a problem with the save game and the > game is at a standstill and I feel this is the perfect moment to plan > our future actions, and there is yet much to discuss. > > Our Apolyton IRC server is down, so we use DALnet in the meantime, > please tell me if we could have a chat sometime during this week or > weekend. > > Thank you, and best wishes to you and your teammates! > > -Master Zen > Consul of Foreign Affairs of The Glory Of War

please tell me if you are interested in participating and when you could be available. I'd love it if all the Consuls could be present and anyone else who wants to be involved in the planning.

-MZ

	07-05-2003 18:17									#74
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I'd like to help out; mainly in the area of how to split the continent. I have put some work into this already, but ND doesn't know it.

	07-05-2003 23:13									#75
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ok, it's not definite so far, but we're thinking of Monday the 12th at 2000 GMT which would be 3:00pm EST. Again, this is not definite. Tuesday is the other option though we haven't agreed on an hour yet.

I would really appreciate if the Consuls could be present but of course EVERYONE is invited

	08-05-2003 00:32									#76
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I could be there at 3:30 PM EST. I might be home before that, but that would be lucky.

Go ahead and start the chat at 3:00. Just lets talk about the continent division a bit later

	08-05-2003 01:28									#77
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Great, we'll probably start talking about timing and military strategy first anyway

	13-05-2003 00:30									#78
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Is this going on? If so, what server/channel?

	13-05-2003 05:02									#79
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Sorry for not having posted, mav_son and I agreed to hold the chat at the same hour tomorrow since I was unable to assist today (a good friend of mine had her professional exam at that hour).

It will be tomorrow, 2000 GMT at channel #GoW in Undernet.

Again, my sincere apology for not having warned, it's just that today was a very busy day for me... sorry

	13-05-2003 06:02									#80
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That's ok. I'll be there tommorrow

	14-05-2003 05:38									#81
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ND didn't show up

I'm e-mailing them to see if they had connection problems or whatever...

...or maybe they just forgot because of the Champions League semifinal

	20-05-2003 10:23									#82
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Theyre asking us if they will be getting feudalism soon.

	20-05-2003 15:12									#83
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Just got this email from Borc:

quote: Hello GhengisFarb, Now - after a long time i will try to continue my work as the GoW ambassador. Pease forgive me and help me if i dont know all the newest diplomatic details between GoW and ND. RP is just sending a settler in the north-east of madrid (and this means: in the north of the jungle). Our alliance of GoW&ND can not tolerate RP settlers in the north of the jungle! If they settle there we probably have to declare war on them and then we need your assistance a bit earlier than we thought. Anyway - we dont know if we can start a big attack there but at least we have to show them that we are at war. So please some questions: - We need Feudalismus as soon as possible! (for 70 gc, right?) When can you give it to us? This is very urgent! - We need you to start with us the war as soon as possible. We don't have a NAP with RP anymore? and your NAP? - When will you be able to send workers to help us in the jungle? At least we need a road to bring your troups to the south! - Will you be able to send us some troups to at least bind RP forces at their borders? - We know you dont have your UU already but do you have any further ideas how to help us very soon? Thank you very much, your ally Borc

	20-05-2003 17:00									#84
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Shite ....

We are not ready.
Plus..we have to be wary about our MPP with RP.
I forget what the loopholes are ???

	20-05-2003 17:55									#85
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quote: - We need Feudalismus as soon as possible! (for 70 gc, right?) When can you give it to us? This is very urgent!

ok... scanning the GS diplomacy thread... It looks like we got feudalism on turn 93. Turn 103 is 510bc, which is next turn. Therefore we can probably sell it to them next turn.

quote: - We need you to start with us the war as soon as possible. We don't have a NAP with RP anymore? and your NAP?

GoW has to declare war on RP before ND does.

quote: - When will you be able to send workers to help us in the jungle? At least we need a road to bring your troups to the south!

reply: "We barely have enough workers in our empire as it is. If we were to make more, it would hurt our war effort immensely." Thats the CoIA's take on the situation. Unless everyone thinks I should make the road with all of our workers, and forgoe any improvements in our homeland whatsoever.

quote: - Will you be able to send us some troups to at least bind RP forces at their borders?[quote] nope. We need to wait at least until Chivalry to actually have the horsemen needed, much less upgraded. [quote]- We know you dont have your UU already but do you have any further ideas how to help us very soon?

Just let us declare war first so we don't have to attack you!

	20-05-2003 21:54									#86
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Remainder:

The RP-GoW treately left out the issue of settling PRECISELY because I felt such a thing was bound to happend and didn't want to get involved in settler problems.

We have 2 options here:

Option 1)

- We sell Feudalism to ND next turn. WE DON'T SELL it to RP. That will give ND a major boost and keeping Spain with measly Spearmen. Problem is they might get it from GS anyway...

Option 2)

- we tell ND to swallow their pride for 14-15 turns until we get Chivalry, we sell it to them and we launch our crusade as originally planned.

We must make ND perfectly clear that we are not propared for war at this moment. That if they want to launch such a conflict they well get all our technological support but that's it. We can't send our horsies to the slaughterhouse and be left with nothing once we get chivalry.

This is all a RP ploy to get them to declare war on them, we must tell them to swallow their pride and not take the bait.

	20-05-2003 21:55									#87
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BTW, in case Option 1 is used, we blackmail GS into NOT giving them Chivarly if they sell RP Feudalism. Same for Lego.

	21-05-2003 00:52									#88
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Ask ND if they would still split the continent with us as is in the treaty if they took option #1. If they agree to this, all the better! Take option #1.

If they don't agree to this, take option 2.


The inherent problem behind option #1 and thus why ND might not agree with it:

quote: 3. Neu Demogyptica and the Glory of War will declare war on the Roleplay team on the same turn. This turn is not yet decided, but it must be agreed to by both teams at least 20 turns beforehand or later if mutually agreed upon. At least 10 swordsmen from Neu Demogyptica and 10 horsemen from the Glory of War are to be used in attacking Roleplay. This is an absolute minimum, and it is expected that teams will produce more than this.

This is wording straight from the ND-GoW treaty. We have agreed to attack with at least 10 horsemen (riders). Also, we need to confer with ND 20 turns before the attack, which makes option 2 more within the bounds of the treaty.

But, that said, option 1 would be optimal for us. All it would take for that option is removing part 3 out of the treaty.

I guess we need a chat with ND... MasterZen?

	21-05-2003 01:44									#89
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I guess we do... I'll e-mail Borc as mav_son did not reply to my last e-mail. I'll post the reply as soon as I get it. Before I do however, should we reveal our treaty with RP (with the loophole of course) so they know why preciesely we don't want them to rush into a war like that?

	21-05-2003 02:46									#90
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I think we should... actually, I think that we should have done that when we signed it. Did no one tell ND about it? Or did GF tell them in some email that we don't know about because he didn't post it in the forum?

MZ - if you could post outgoing diplomacy as well as incoming stuff, it would be appreciated