17-01-2003 18:01									#1
	Foreign Affairs Consulate: Neu Demogyptica Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

1st post is non biased and there is no topic...

	17-01-2003 18:04									#2
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Note from NDG:

Hello GF
It seems the quad pact is dead??? any news...???
anyway we have finished iron working and maybe you have something to trade
for it?
good luck
Borc

We already have said we would trade for Iron working from Lux.

Also, about the quad pact: has anything more been decided? Its mainly GF who is in charge of that...

	17-01-2003 19:27									#3
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I haven't heard when Lux is going to finish Ironworking. Roleplay has appears to have refused to have ANY relations are trades with any of the other civs.

We need to know how long it will take Lux to get Ironworking.

	18-01-2003 01:22									#4
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Lux has ironworking.

	18-01-2003 01:29									#5
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PS: forwarded email: what does this mean (from Borc):

sorry...:-/
BORC

	18-01-2003 17:37									#6
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If Lux can settle a city above ND, then I believe possibly Lux is the closest civ to us.

In my eyes, this would make Lux our first target for war.
I suggest we encourage a more friendlier relationship with ND if this turns out to be our war plans. We will need them as allies.

We already have an iron working / horsie trade with Lux. Can we do anything with ND. What about writing etc etc. or perhaps a future tech trade. It seems they were the most eager for the quad pact to continue, and would be more open 2 way tech aliance.

Also, we should encourage their distrust with RP. They have jungle south, so I can see why they would rather expand North. We must encourage them otherwise.

Lets keep our all our options open.

	18-01-2003 18:58									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 PS: forwarded email: what does this mean (from Borc): sorry...:-/ BORC

He sent us the wrong save.... that is what it is gor..

	18-01-2003 20:06									#8
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How about the writing for horseback riding trade that we were going to do with Roleplay? We can't do the Iron working deal, since we are locked in with Lux. I assume there is no other deal we could do with NDG. If we can get them to research writing while we research mapmaking, we could trade them Horse riding for writing. That way, we would have one tech up on them. Alternativly, we could get them to pay for horse riding, like they did with us.

	18-01-2003 20:58									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 How about the writing for horseback riding trade that we were going to do with Roleplay? We can't do the Iron working deal, since we are locked in with Lux. I assume there is no other deal we could do with NDG. If we can get them to research writing while we research mapmaking, we could trade them Horse riding for writing. That way, we would have one tech up on them. Alternativly, we could get them to pay for horse riding, like they did with us.

I will ask Borc, but we have to have Writing BEFORE we can begin researching Mapmaking, its a prerequisite.

	18-01-2003 23:24									#10
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oh, right

Then maybe we research writing, and they research whatever they want.

	19-01-2003 22:16									#11
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With Lux latest incursion into a cultural border (into ND) I was wondering if you guys would aprove of me sending a PM/e-mail to Borc apoligising for our entry into their cultural border. Tell them that it was my choice and my choice alone and that you guys banned me from playing the turn for 5 turns. This could really help our relationship with ND....

	20-01-2003 02:54									#12
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I'm fine with that... doesn't hurt our position any.... (or does it? )

	20-01-2003 03:01									#13
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It cant hurt...

Stick to the truth though...we never banned you....You were simply flamed by our glorious leader and put in your place.

Offer them 100 virgins from your own harem as a way of apoligy

Regs

	20-01-2003 03:58									#14
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quote: Lord Borc, In light of the recent "invasion" of your cultural area by Lux Invicta forces, it has been decided that I am to come forth to explain and apologize for the Glory of War incursion. Let me fist explain the situation at the time: Our Glorious leader, GhengisFarb, was away from the throne on a mission of some importance (called Real Life) and told me to play the turn. His orders were for that unit to move south. What he meant was southwest. I took it upon myself to move the unit directly south into your cultural borders. We did not discuss it. I just did it. Once I posted my actions on our private forum, I received a sever backlash from all team members and a reprimand from our Emperor when he returned. The end result of my actions was that I was no longer the only alternative player for the team. The reasons for my actions are not quiet so obvious (until now). My main reasoning was because Lux Invicta had just done two moves in our cultural border (yes, instead of leaving, they stayed in our borders and did not immediately leave). I am also a very aggressive player (after all, I am the founder of the War based team), but these reasons do not justify my actions. I hear by officially apologize for my personal actions against your team. Vice Emperor and Commerce Consul of the Glory of War Donegeal

This is what I am planning to send. Any suggestions on it before I send it?
I would guess it would build animosity towards Lux and clear the team of any wrong doing (by blaming myself soley) and thus inprove our relationship with ND (as mush as I'd truly like to wipe them off the face of Apolyton!)

	20-01-2003 04:03									#15
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That's fine by me, but I don't think you have to do it.

It might make relations with ND easier though, but who knows?

	20-01-2003 04:08									#16
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No objections from me....you naughty naughty boy

	20-01-2003 05:33									#17
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Message sent (via PM) just as it is written above.

	20-01-2003 17:43									#18
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quote: Hello GF, thx for your message... i will send you a long message later this night! only as an information: Lux gave Role iron working for alphabet 2 turns ago and lux entered our culture zone with a warrior again without any comments... we really want friendhip wit YOU but my people dont trust Lux :-/ more later good luck. Borc

If this is not a plea for the preliminary negoitaions of an alliance...I do not know what is.

ND & Lux are going to war. We may have to pick a side very soon.

I would prefer to attack the closest civ...which I believe is Lux at this stage....we need to scout the area to ensure this is true.
To believe that GOW and any nation can live so closely together in peace is impossible. We need local territory for ourselves.

IIRC GF said they have Iron, and perhaps we do not. Lux has also shown its hand by placing an absurd city right next to ND just to steal the horse resource. If we remove this, they will have limited options for offensive.

How long before our non-aggresion pact runs out ?

	20-01-2003 18:18									#19
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This is the response I got from Borc concerning my letter. It seems that we do indeed have an ally.

quote: Originally posted by Borc via PM Dear Donegeal, Thank you very much for your letter. It is a long time ago since you moved the warrior into our territory. And we were happy that GhengisFarb explained the situation as soon as he could and even just before we recieved the next save and finally you moved your warrior away the next turn. So Gow did the 100% best to solve the situation and we trust you. Thank you again.

	20-01-2003 19:24									#20
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From Borc this morning:

quote: Dear GhengisFarb, Finally i have the time to write you a real letter and not only a short message. First I have to say that we dont forward our letters to somebody else... not in the past and not in the future. This would be against our laws and we will never do it. The only thing was that we told Spain, that we had info that Spain proposed to forge an trio alliance against us... We only wanted to be fair and so we had to give Spain the chance to defend themselves... My point of view at the moment (many turns later) is that there is still no war on our island and this is a good thing anyway. We think that the proposal of GoW to form a Tech pact with all 4 nations was very honorable and indeed the best way for us all. We also like the idea to trade with you as soon as possible. So let us both begin as the two traders on the island. Spain can decide the if they want to participate... Anyway we have problems with Lux again. we dont fear them but at the moment it seems that they want to cross our land for another 2 turns :-( and many of my people are angry about it... if there will be a crisis we will inform you. Roleplay broke a tech treaty with you? The only thing we know is, that they got iron working from the ottomans for alphabet. we know this for sure because i make screenshots every turn from the diplomacy screens. All the things you say about Spain are very interesting. We have a scout there (they dont like it very much, but he is away from their cities). The only thing i can say at the moment is that their land is much bigger than we thought and we even dont know if we all are living on an island or not. The fact is that we even did not see Madrid yet Yes Spain tries its best to keep the whole big south for themselves. But they have to try it, thats normal. We only found silk and gems in their country already... maybe there is ivory, we dont know. the next thing we want to verify with our scout is if we are on an island or not. If we are NOT on the island we think everybody should know this and if my people will allow this i will inform you as soon as possible! We also think that Lux and ND have to go a bit to the south to give everybody of the 4 teams a good chance. We would be very proud if you could trade IRON/RIDING with us instead with Lux, we dont want them to have horses as long as they get into our cultural borders :-( By the way: our next science will be mathematics (in about ~12 turns) We also can try to get writing from the spains to trade it with you later... because we really think that at least GoW, Role and ND should be well balanced for a long time. We are in the middle of the island and so we are very interested in peace and wealth. Good luck for the future & my best wishes to donegeal who wrote me a nice message today. Borc

I wonder if we should make some sort of offer for an safety alliance versus Roleplay. Not a complete military alliance but one that activates if we discover Roleplay has staked our an unfair amount of territory and resources in relation to the other teams.

Thus guaranteing that Roleplay does not become a superpower and utilizes one of us against the other.

	21-01-2003 07:39									#21
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It seems that we are getting close to having to make a decision as who to align with...Lux or ND.

The HBR trade with Lux has already been approved correct ?

Borc should be told so that he can prepare.
My personal opinion at this stage, is that I prefer to align with ND. Soley based on that they are further from our capital than Lux. (I think)

	25-01-2003 10:06									#22
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Borc attached this note with the save game today:

quote: Hello GhengisFarb, i had a chat with 5 of our best players right now. - darekill, our vice-gouverneur and major of Neu Theben - picahulu, our chief ambassador - zayxus, general of army #1 - mav-son, leader of our workers - helios, major of anagramascus we all are very impressed that you give us riding for mathematics which will be ready in 14-15 turns. we will treat you as friends from now on! you also have my word as the gouverneur of ND that a) we will give you mathematics as soon as possible b) we will NOT give riding to Roleplay without your permission c) we will explore new techs like construction/currency with you together d) we also will try to balance the south/north relation together with you I enjoyed the chat session today and i will visit you soon again. we wish you and your people all the best and if you need help or info please feel free to write me a message! Borc

	27-01-2003 01:37									#23
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Think about it though. We gave them Horseback Riding for a tech they won't have available for 15 turns.

In their minds that the same as a nonagression pact for 15 turns. If we go to war they wouldn't be able to trade it back to us if they wanted to.

If Lux and ND are having bad relations we just unintentionally sent them a signal that we ARE NOT against them.

I'm not sure what Roleplay/ND relations are but that may have put us at the top of the list for teams they trust.

	01-02-2003 06:38									#24
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Latest email from ND:

quote: Dear GhengisFarb, Here some news and answers for our alliance -->VOX news We wrote a letter to vox and asked them to share mini maps. we still wait for an answer. We hope your warrior can explore the east of lux and find vox. a scout of us had been there some turns ago but he did not climb on every coastal hill... and at the moment we need the scout to check our border to lux. -->Role news You are right! You and me, we both only told us some map info during our chat session. So Role dont has the right to blame us for cheating. Maybe they are upset because i told you about the two iron sources in the south west...? By the way: Togas wants to have a chat session with me next week (i think about a possible south border...) I will say him that i do not believe that somebody cheats if i starts to talk about this! --> YOUR IDEA GF: "It might not be a bad idea to foster the idea with Roleplay that our two teams don't get along so that convince Lux there is no immediate military threat from both of us." Borc: I will try to do so! Very good idea! --> Lux (everything concerning LUX should be top secret and not for others!) WE will watch the roads of Lux to Regio Equorum and also to the north where they probably will found their 3rd city. My personal idea at the moment is... It would be the best if WE/ND attack Regio Equorum and if YOU/GoW attack their new city. it would be a great idea if we both would start the attacks in the same turn. it would be necessary that we both send a war declaration at the same time together. its not official yet but what do you think about it? good luck Borc

	02-02-2003 09:10									#25
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If we could foster the idea of making RP and Lux think that we don't get along with ND, then pull this deal at the same time....

Trip is gunna Flip!

	02-02-2003 09:33									#26
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I know "Respawn AI Players" is on, but will Lux respawn if we wipe them out?

	02-02-2003 09:51									#27
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Dont know the answer to this, but you could guarantee that they will just "join" up with another civ. Imagine if they gifted all of their tech to the builders ?

Regs

	02-02-2003 19:15									#28
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New memo from Borc:

quote: Hello GF, We just see that Spain has founded Saragossa :-( The south is very very big and i am very frustrated about spain now...! First i have to show the new screenshots to my people but propably we have to talk very soon about our alliance again in a chat meeting... Good luck!

And with the new save:

quote: Hello GhengisFarb, at the moment we can do nothing against saragossa but we still will try to get some land in the south! we saw the settler of Lux two squares south of the two cows...! together with one speerman and one worker. So Lux will have a street completed to Regio and one street to their 3rd city. Will you be able to send an army to their 3rd city after your nap is over? we would take the regio job then mfg Florian Borchert

We then saw the settler group once our settler/spearman moved onto the next hill.

	06-02-2003 20:27									#29
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From Borc:

quote: Hello GF, FRIDAY 7.00 PM GMT+0, not yesterday! I hope you have time. I will come to the apolyton chat together with darekill (our new gouverneur for 1750 BC to 750 BC) and maybe with some more members of our team. So please ask your people if they would like to join this party Its a pitty that you could not attack the ottoman settler but we like it to hear that you don't brake your treaties. As i told you we had yesterday the chat session at apolyton with Roleplay (Togas, Dejon and others). Roleplay wanted to talk with us about the south border. the border discussion is not finished and it seems very difficult to find a solution about this (as you warned me). Anyway we will not give up to go for the silk city! - Role and ND have an official NAP for 20 turns now (so we can concentrate on lux and Role can not attack our (silk-)settler) - Role and ND will trade Mathematics for Writing soon (we will find a way to give you writing - the border discussion is still running ... - (as your idea was) we told them that we fear strong GoW, that we dont trust Lux but that we dont plan to attack Lux. - We tried everything to NOT show them that ND+GoW plan an alliance against Lux. - So i hope we gave them no reason at all to warn Lux. please tell me if Friday 7.00 PM is not a good time for you lets plan our alliance... Good luck Borc

Darekill is the new leader of ND, with Borc the new ambassador.

	07-02-2003 02:01									#30
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I will not be able to make the chat

But I will be out of town with friends at Niagra Falls