03-02-2003 14:41									#61
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so what can be our future politics?
following mapfis argumentation, we would need another good city spot as soon as we reach the coalsite, so we can point out the benefits of settling there instead of building up an army. and to be honest, thats a wise decision even if it wouldn't seem to be the only way to stop the warmongers.

conclusion: we have to explore the south!

	03-02-2003 14:45									#62
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next question:
what to research. myself i'm for slavery it has two good points: we can reach additional workpower by showing those poor barbaric barbarians how to live in a civilization, theay can help us working, we will teach them. and of course it enables us to build mines, what will become crucial, as soon as we want to start a race for wonders.
the backdraw of course is, that those warmongers might even more push to war, as soon as we get benefits from otherwise useless battles in the fields.
your thoughts comrades?

	03-02-2003 23:12									#63
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Hi camarades,

I fear a war with the Austrians is unfortunately impossible to avoid in the short term though I firmly believe we need peace for the moment as we need to grow more before we have the means to wage a full war.

The coal site seems to be the most interesting in the future turns (we need a unit and wonder factory) as long as we plan to produce a settler as fast as possible with this new city in order to create another one near the Potatoe tile discovered by Dave yesterday.

The south should also be explored as it could allow us to expand our empire in a peaceful way and that is what we need now.

	04-02-2003 02:14									#64
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I make this appeal to you good folks here in the hope that you will reconsider your peaceful ways.
We the people of Lemuria are stuck between a rock(the germans)and a hardplace(the austrians). This situation will not last long as either we or they will do something either by accident or design to wreck the current state of 'peace'. We have also met a third party(thailand) and we have yet to see how they deal with us(hopefuly nicely).

Really i'm just here to try to make you consider at least the possibilty of wageing war on one of our close neighbours - they will always have something against us because of our proximity to them.

Even if we are currently weak compared to either of them we could, if it was decided to do it, improve our situation by the quick conquest of specifically targeted soft targets(like the new german cities that are springing up all over the place for example).

The aim of any such action would be to deal the chosen target a blow they would have difficulty in recovering from. It wouldn't be just a rush for one or two cities, it would be to take them effectivly out of the game.

To that end we would need to keep good relations with the other nation(s) around us.

If we do nothing pro-active then it will just work in our neighbours favour. They have a big lead on us and by the time we might catch up(which always happens eventually) to be of equal standing it will most likely be too late. One of them or both will have decided that the weak little nation to the south is ripe for taking.

We should do something so our children and our childrens children will know the name of Lemuria and think of it with pride and fondness, not with pain and loss under the foot of our future enemies.

War isn't good nor is it without risk. Still if we are resolute and firm in our convictions then our people will win our chosen encounter and it will lead us to a better, safer and more prosperous future.

Our potential enemies are just too close for comfort - if we don't strike they will. By taking the inititive we will command the coming war on our terms. By ignoring it it will be the sleeping serpant that will bite when it decides it is ready. In our weaker state we can only win a war on our terms.
Peace is great, we all want peace. My children want peace, I want peace. Our situation does not promote peace, it will only lead to one thing - war. Lets be ready for it, lets use it to ensure the peace of the future.

I hope you understand that i'm actually one of you, it's just that i really can't see any length of peace time that would be of benefit to us right now. Peace just isn't tenable right now, we need to gear our empire up now or it will be too late.

Hush! - what's that sound........could it be the sound of german jack boots controlled by that evil genius just beyond our border?

Lets really give peace a chance please

	04-02-2003 04:34									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox next question: what to research. myself i'm for slavery

slavery creates its own problems later on, and it seems to be inverse, idealogicaly to "hemp and donkies"

i voted for Immortal Wombat.
We should field more candidates, consolidate power.

	04-02-2003 06:00									#66
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Lets really give peace a chance please

This is what we want to achieve Child of Thor though we don't agree on the way to reach this goal.

I can't speak on behalf of my brothers and sisters of the APP but unfortunately I know we will have to wage a costly war sooner or later and I firmly believe we should first settle the lands around us before engaging in a battle. I understand your point, engaging in a war to secure the peace that would allow our nation to grow and survive in this hostile world, but we think we should not start a war before we have the power to wage it and lead our glorious troops to victory. War should be the last resort and we still have the possibility to settle some lands around us. I know my camarade Immortal Wombat shares the same opinion as me as he has expressed it at the Forum in front of all the citizens.

Be assure I will inform our camarade Zaphod Beeblebrox of your plea as any voice is worth to be listened when it comes from the heart.

	04-02-2003 06:02									#67
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quote: Originally posted by medio slavery creates its own problems later on, and it seems to be inverse, idealogicaly to "hemp and donkies"

Unfortunately researching slavery is the only way to learn how to build the mines we need to level up our production ratio.

quote: I voted for Immortal Wombat. We should field more candidates, consolidate power.

Patience Medio, patience...

	04-02-2003 06:44									#68
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By the way camarades we need to define the APP's position on the "Best place for our third city" issue currently debated in the thread open by Martin.

As far as I am concerned I agree with Martin and this curious little Mr Baggins:

- The tile north to the coal resource.

	04-02-2003 19:01									#69
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Thanx for the consideration Tamerlin, you hit it right on the head - it was from the heart

	05-02-2003 05:54									#70
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of course the coal site, i just would like to see the stats for settling directly on the coal as well, and i would like to see a bit more of the lands south, so we won't make city # 4 much worse for a small benefit to city #3. so i think the most important issue will be to get at least one warrior explore the south!

	05-02-2003 06:34									#71
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Thanks for the reply Zaphod Beeblebrox, I will vote for the tile north of the coal tile.

	05-02-2003 07:18									#72
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Congratulations for your campaign Immortal Wombat, you have almost won the Minister of Defence position when the warmongers were far ahead from us.

Next election, if it is not too late, will be yours.

What should be the official policy of the APP towards the next advance to research?

Though I think Slavery is an abomination it would allow us to build mines and thus improve our production rate which would in turn allow our nation to produce more settlers and units to defend our cities.

On the other hand Writing is the shortest way to Monarchy which is the government our people need.

What do you think about it?

	05-02-2003 15:17									#73
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well, is still believe we can and should even use slaves. erm, of course i wanted to say give those poor barbarians a place in our society where they can enjoy participating in the benefits of a civilized society
monarchy should be a midtimegoal, we need that, but not necessarily afap.

	05-02-2003 16:31									#74
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Yep!

BTW Zaphod, are we the only ones interested in the election of a Prime Secretary?

	05-02-2003 16:36									#75
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so it seems, good i abstained, else we would have a tie

	05-02-2003 16:49									#76
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"One citizen, one vote" as would say Ankh-Morpork's Patrician.

	05-02-2003 18:53									#77
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We only lost by one vote. How many APP are there out there?

Organization is the key to our success. We should vote as a block, more or less.

Right now there is a Diplo policy poll that is pretty even between war and peace.

Even though we dont have a Minister in the Cabinet we can still influence policy.

we need writing

	05-02-2003 19:14									#78
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Both candidates for Secretary seem to have similar positions, but since tamerlain is our founders' only competition, and at the same time supports him I vote Zaphod.

quote: . All hail the great Zaphod Beeblebrox!

May our decendants enjoy ass & grass long after we have reached the clearing @ the end of the path.

	05-02-2003 19:27									#79
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thank you medio, that comes to
zaphod 2
tamerlin 0
abstain 1

still a close call

	05-02-2003 21:14									#80
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May I recall all my camarades I am Zaphod's self proclaimed second candidate for this office...

	05-02-2003 21:30									#81
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quote: Originally posted by medio We only lost by one vote. How many APP are there out there?

I think we are only four (or five) but that we will convince more Apolymurians as time goes.

quote: Organization is the key to our success. We should vote as a block, more or less.

This is why as soon as I notice a thread I post here to ask for the official policy of the APP. We should all act this way and debate here before voting, if we can all vote the same we will have more power as we will be able to take over the decision, perhaps should we debate through private messages as we are spied. I think of a little trick that would allow us to make a "coup" on important issues.

I will tell you more about this later through private messages.

quote: Right now there is a Diplo policy poll that is pretty even between war and peace.

As simplistic as it may be the official position is "befriend all" and share the hemp of peace with all...

quote: Even though we dont have a Minister in the Cabinet we can still influence policy.

Right!

quote: we need writing

It's a pity we have not exchanged posts earlier, the position of the APP is currently Slavery as we need mines to rise our production level and send more settlers in the wilds around us. Mines will allow us to produce more units, more buildings that will in turn allow us to increase the science rate and thus accelerate the rythm of our discoveries.

Zaphod (I can be wrong) and I (that I am quite sure) have already voted for Slavery.

About the best site where to create our third city, we have chosen the tile north to the coal site.

	05-02-2003 22:04									#82
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i knew Zaphod was leaning that way, but i didnt know if it was official APP policy. It appears i mistakenly voted against us
in the future we should come to a consensus before anyone votes so we all know what direction to move in.
other than the city site, and research (which are already decided) i dont know if there are any major policy issues we can weigh in on.

BTW do we have any Ministers in the cabinet, and on a related note, who shall we run for Pres when that comes up? Zaphod would seem the obvious choice since he is our leader. However if we can come up with a candidate that is more palatable to the masses we should consider it.

	05-02-2003 23:11									#83
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quote: Originally posted by medio i knew Zaphod was leaning that way, but i didnt know if it was official APP policy. It appears i mistakenly voted against us in the future we should come to a consensus before anyone votes so we all know what direction to move in. other than the city site, and research (which are already decided) i dont know if there are any major policy issues we can weigh in on.

I can not agree more.

quote: BTW do we have any Ministers in the cabinet, and on a related note, who shall we run for Pres when that comes up? Zaphod would seem the obvious choice since he is our leader. However if we can come up with a candidate that is more palatable to the masses we should consider it.

I don't think so, Zaphod is actually an obvious choice though Immortal Wombat could earn some benefits from the previous campaign. Note: he is also a well known modder and is thus far more popular than most of us.

	06-02-2003 00:10									#84
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Yeah, but it also means I'm horribly lazy and have the attention span of a herring, which means I'm not likely to do anything...

	06-02-2003 04:10									#85
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Just tell us you don't want to be president!

	06-02-2003 05:12									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Zaphod (I can be wrong) and I (that I am quite sure) have already voted for Slavery. About the best site where to create our third city, we have chosen the tile north to the coal site.

well, i haven't voted yet, reading the debates, but i'm still in favor of slavery, though the more important argument is, that we could really use a few "immigrants" from the barbs. of course those can later help digging the mines.

i think the coal site is unquestioned, what we have to think about is a good place for city #4 and maybe even #5, so we convince the unaligned (and perhaps even some wp-members, there are more than us, but tend to disagree quite often with each other) settling will be the better policy than invoking war.

	06-02-2003 05:27									#87
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quote: Originally posted by medio BTW do we have any Ministers in the cabinet, and on a related note, who shall we run for Pres when that comes up? Zaphod would seem the obvious choice since he is our leader. However if we can come up with a candidate that is more palatable to the masses we should consider it.

well, i won't have time to be president anyway neither this nor the next month and as the rl-party im a member of i am against being president and partychairman because that mixes different interests. and in addition, i'm not sure whether we should run for presidency right now. pedrunn is a good president (though from the wrong party) and most people see him so, we won't get popular by leaning in against him, and one even more important point: the president is the most unimportant job in the cabinet! he only enacts what ministers and resolutions want him to do. iirc his only important decisions are whether to veto rushbuilding and changing sliders, which can only be used effective to hamper our nation, not to benefit it. and locutus is doing a good job as chief of the foreign office as well, as long as the people demand the proper ways of diplomacy from him. we should rather try to get our foot in the ministry of defence, where we can prove against the barbs (and perhaps we will be forced to prove against other nations that we aren't just dope-smoking hippies, as the wp sees us. we should try as well to get the ministry of domestic affairs so we can control the way our cities will develop, in addition this isn't a very popular ministry at this early stage of the game, so there won't be that fierce a competition to it. once we hold offices we can prove the people that our party means a big benefit to our beloved nation.

	06-02-2003 06:53									#88
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I agree with you dear Prime Secretary.

	06-02-2003 07:34									#89
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well... if you came up with better policies...

instead of "more ass and grass"

use "more ass whuppin"

you might get some more votes...

	06-02-2003 07:40									#90
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quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins well... if you came up with better policies... instead of "more ass and grass" use "more ass whuppin" you might get some more votes...