23-01-2003 00:44									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Well I am still waiting for that return on investment. University guarantees you nothing, in hindsight, I'd have probably been better off if I hadn't gone, I'd have been in a better financial position now. And I went to a very prestigious university, so figure that out

Maybe if you had to pay for it instead of the government, you would have taken it more seriously. Or would have not gone and wasted the resources.

	23-01-2003 01:00									#32
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Hey, I have wasted no resources, I have been looking hard for a job but to no avail, as you have been briefed about on poly on many occasions...

	23-01-2003 02:08									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Hey, I have wasted no resources,

You got an education that was not useful. This cost money.

quote: I have been looking hard for a job but to no avail, as you have been briefed about on poly on many occasions...

Not relevant to this discussion.

	23-01-2003 02:20									#34
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I thought the general idea was that a society benefits from a highly educated populace?

	23-01-2003 02:22									#35
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Hey, my education is 'supposedly' in high demand (biochemistry), as biotechnology is a thriving area. I have not been able to utilise my background or qualifications to any use in getting a job within this field. Am I supposed to be the one to feel guilty when no one will employ me despite having made 'the right decisions' from both a personal and economic point of view? No.

	23-01-2003 02:25									#36
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I'm also very perplexed that proponents of meritocracy would want a discriminatory education system. All our experiences with such things (ie. the times before public education) have resulted in a very decidedly non-meritocratic society.

	23-01-2003 02:43									#37
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You need to move south to get into biotech. Companies down here screaming for people.

	23-01-2003 02:53									#38
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Ah, the injustice. In my day there were no tuition fees and I got a Student Grant.

	23-01-2003 02:53									#39
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I still don't get it why Richard hasn't found a job. Biotechs are like shrooms, and unlike dot-coms they have an actual financial plan.

	23-01-2003 02:55									#40
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There are few Biotech jobs in the north.

There are jobs in the south, but that's little comfort if you can't afford to live there.

	23-01-2003 02:59									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Hey, my education is 'supposedly' in high demand (biochemistry), as biotechnology is a thriving area. I have not been able to utilise my background or qualifications to any use in getting a job within this field. Am I supposed to be the one to feel guilty when no one will employ me despite having made 'the right decisions' from both a personal and economic point of view? No.

1. God, you sound so pathetic. As if somebody owes you a living because you got a masters in biology. Make something happen. Quit expectiong the world to take care of you.

2. My point was that maybe you wouldn't have gone into an ill-suited program if you had to pay for it yourself (get loans, have parents mortgage house, etc.). Maybe you would have been more likely to see it through when you got into it. Maybe you would have inspected it more closely before getting into it. No gaurantee of course. But people tend to take things mroe seriously when their own money is on the line. It's human nature.

	23-01-2003 03:01									#42
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And Rich. I totally wish you the best in getting a job. Move if you need to. You live in a country the size of my state. Don't be a homebody. You're young. You can move. Probably move in right next to your first girlfriend. Life has a way of doing funny things like that. Happened to a buddy of mine. Now he's married with a passle of kids.

	23-01-2003 03:03									#43
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Christ, give him a break, GP. Were you savaged by a student as a child, or something?

	23-01-2003 03:17									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Christ, give him a break, GP. Were you savaged by a student as a child, or something?

I went to the Naval Academy! You learn to be a little brusque. But no British boys schools buggery.

Anyway, I wish Rich the best and hope this doesn't turn into a "let's analyze Rich thread". Maybe it's my fault, since I took it in that direction.

	23-01-2003 03:25									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp There are few Biotech jobs in the north. There are jobs in the south, but that's little comfort if you can't afford to live there.

what is the distance like, can he commute?

Jon Miller

	23-01-2003 03:36									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller what is the distance like, can he commute?

Own goal?

No way is a commute possible.

Of course, exactly where the 'north' ends and the 'south' begins is a little hazy.

Hull to London is 215.5 miles (346.9 km), for example: http://www.multimap.com/map/aproute...%2C180516&rn=GB

	23-01-2003 03:40									#47
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quote: Originally posted by GP 1. God, you sound so pathetic. As if somebody owes you a living because you got a masters in biology. Make something happen. Quit expectiong the world to take care of you.

Actually, the government owes every adult in this country a living.

	23-01-2003 04:05									#48
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And with a Masters in Biochem, he *should* walk into a decent job. I might be wrong, but since Rich is an Oxford graduate, I believe you can still use the Oxford Graduate careers service even after you graduate. I had a look at it, and I already have a post-degree job, if I want it. It works well

	23-01-2003 04:12									#49
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Some times it seems like everyone has a degree, in more and more obscure subjects. Were crying out for plummers, plasterers etc and instead people are being encouraged to go to uni to do things like biochem. Plummers earn more than lawyers alot of the time. In career terms (not general terms) you're probably better off leaving school at 16 and doing skilled labour for 4 and a half years. Then doing some work experience in an office for 6 months and you'll be more likely to get a job than alot of students and you'll have 12 grand in the bank rather than in debt.

Retrain and become a plummer Harrison all you need is a lazy attitude and some non existant bloke to order parts from.

	23-01-2003 04:23									#50
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I don't know if I have the regulation arse cleavage that it is necessary to display as a plummer

Well I am not going into the analysis thing, I don't feel the compulsion to do that. But what I am saying it that having an education feels like it is becoming more and more of a gamble in terms of long term goals with the stakes getting higher and higher. I may not have the self-loathing or depression or anxiety from this predicament, but I still do feel a bit bitter about the situation that I, quite frankly, shouldn't be in.

	23-01-2003 05:23									#51
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The thing is, having a degree used to virtually guarantee a good job. Now, with so many ppl having degrees, employers look for other things. Things they don't teach you in college.

	23-01-2003 05:26									#52
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Tell me about it zulu, tell me about it...

	23-01-2003 05:57									#53
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I don't think it is ever possible to be fair between rich and poor ... without creating a non-corrupt-communist-socialism .

The thing I don't like are the stupid regulations like for instance the fact that the government will give me NO assistance until my 18th birthday. They more or less want to keep me at school for another year .

The other thing to keep in mind to ... :
I have rich friends whose paren'ts WONT help them. The government however won't help them either because their parents earn too much. They can't get the money either way.

	23-01-2003 05:58									#54
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In Croatia university education is completely free. You have to love it


The downside is many people dont take studying very seriousely so I would guess we study the longest (7 years on average) in europe, also almost everyone enrolls into a college and there are many, many dropouts along the way. Like 300 people enroll in first year and 25 from that generation passes the tests for year II in one year period.

	23-01-2003 06:35									#55
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Grr: I know those people too, they're not better off than I am, that's for sure. But you don't have to earn a lot and still your children don't apply for grants. My father's a teacher and my mum was keeping the house, yet I couldn't get any social grant, only by "merit" - and it's really hard to get the required amount of courses when working besides...

PH: I've heard that employers more and more favor humanist graduates - not for what they know but for their flexibility - "knowledge management" is the word of the day, not the knowledge in a specific area. My hope!

	23-01-2003 06:50									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Wernazuma III Grr: I know those people too, they're not better off than I am, that's for sure. But you don't have to earn a lot and still your children don't apply for grants. My father's a teacher and my mum was keeping the house, yet I couldn't get any social grant, only by "merit" - and it's really hard to get the required amount of courses when working besides... PH: I've heard that employers more and more favor humanist graduates - not for what they know but for their flexibility - "knowledge management" is the word of the day, not the knowledge in a specific area. My hope!

It's just a trendy line of bullshit. Trust me.

	23-01-2003 09:58									#57
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One thing to keep in mind is that students at elite institutions in the US do not pay for the full cost of their education. MIT's annual tuition of nearly $30k only covers roughly 1/2 of it. The rest is covered by endowments, government and private research grants, etc.

Not that the US is a model. But you do have to compete with these institutions for top teaching and research talent. Even a 30k GBP top up fee isn't going to put funding nearly on par, assuming that UK institutions do not have these multi billion dollar endowments.

	23-01-2003 10:05									#58
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"It's just a trendy line of bullshit. Trust me."

Yeh, my parents fed me that line of bullshit. While in the long-run true, right out of school it bears absolutely no resemblance to reality.

	23-01-2003 10:15									#59
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Student debts have bad economic effects for the whole economy.

	23-01-2003 10:22									#60
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Care to finish your thought?