24-01-2003 04:51									#211
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Probably trying to make a comparison to Charles Whitman.

	24-01-2003 04:53									#212
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I think we can all agree that it is a stupid picture. I'd expect nothing less from the Comrade...

	24-01-2003 04:59									#213
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quote: You don't believe in ANY absolutes? So you believe that murder might not always be wrong, depending on the person? Wait, this attitude also justifies the Holocaust, right?

I tend to agree with Krammerman, that arguing something based on morals is not a "good idea" on the international level, since morals do change from one place to another.

So to answer your second question; Yes, murder is not always "wrong". It all depends on your morals that dictate what right and wrong is. For instance I feel it within our right to kill someone who is a know killer. Backwards huh? For I am punishing that person in the fashion for which he is being punished. Yet, some places (and I won't point fingers) actually feel that this is morally correct (including the place were I live), while others will feel that it is not.

That is why you can debate with morals as your footing.

To address the third question; nothing justifies genocide. Of course, there is a fine line between that and war. It all comes down to who wins who defines that line. Morally it is wrong, but if it can be justified then it is not... in a way the ends justify and classify the means.

	24-01-2003 05:08									#214
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quote: To address the third question; nothing justifies genocide.

Thanks, you just gave me an absolute. That's exactly what I wanted. I don't care what your absolute is, just that you accept the concept of absolutes.

	24-01-2003 05:17									#215
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Yes, and SCOTUS is always right, aren't they

In matters of Constitutional law? Point me to a higher authority.

	24-01-2003 05:26									#216
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Absolutely, 100% correct. Morals shift with the location.
Which is exactly why Hussein ought to just be assassinated, and let's move on.
That will cut David's and C.T.'s rate of whine.

	24-01-2003 05:27									#217
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Enough of the personal attacks people.

panag is right. Where are the shields for Israel?

Ming is right. Enough of this petty personal bullshit.

Wow. I'd try to count how many times my posts have been cut and pasted and quoted, and I'd try to count how many times I've been personally insulted, how many times the US and her allies have been insulted, etc. But it's not worth it. Why bother.

Some of you people are shameless, self-righteous and cold-hearted. Such cynicism, such anger. It's sickening.
Such ignorance. Oh well, we're all dead sooner or later anyways, so nothing matters anyways.

I'm going to Iraq, because that's my orders. I'm going to do what I'm taught and trained to do. If you disagree, fine. If you don't, fine. It doesn't bother me none.

Call me any name you like. It's not going to change anything. Resort to personal attacks, lies, conflict. You will probably not find yourself any happier, or any better off.

	24-01-2003 05:32									#218
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Mesh,

quote: Enough of the personal attacks people.

.
.
.

quote: Some of you people are shameless, self-righteous and cold-hearted.

Speaking of hypocrisy...

quote: I'm going to Iraq, because that's my orders. I'm going to do what I'm taught and trained to do.

And what if you were ordered to kill some civilian walking along the road, would you do it?

	24-01-2003 05:33									#219
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One thing. Before you get too hostile at me, David; you need to know that I was concerned you might be going to Iraq to partake in this, but Chris said that you talked a good game only.
So. Take it from there.

	24-01-2003 05:36									#220
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Nah, I'm saving my money to take a nice trip to Germany. Maybe Cancun too, because that place was fun as hell.

	24-01-2003 05:36									#221
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David Floyd

You're only proving my points.

Here's some answers to your questions:

I'm not trained to kill civilians. I'm not trained to murder people. I'm not trained to fire on unnarmed people. That's not what it's about. Don't assume that I'm a murderer, or an evil person because I'm in the military. Is that what this is about? Because I'm in the service?

If I'm ordered to fire on UNNARMED civilians, I would disobey orders and face a court-martial. And I would do that knowing it was the right thing to do, not firing on civilians.

If I'm ordered to fire on soldiers, I will do it. In a state of war, it's not murder. I've dealt with that issue of personal morality: can I excuse myself for killing another? It's tough. It's difficult. It's not something I look forward to.

More insults please. C'mon. More rhetoric. More sarcasm, cynicism, and the like. C'mon. You know you want to. I can't imagine anything in this post as being taken wrong, or being offensive to anyone.

	24-01-2003 05:38									#222
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You do not have to obey an unlawful order, just for the record.

	24-01-2003 05:40									#223
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By the way, in my line of work, I don't shoot anyone unless I'm fired upon. Self-preservation, self-defense is an entire other can of worms. My job is to rescue downed soldiers. Lots of blood, lots of screaming, lots of sons and daughters wishing right then that they could be home, away from all of it. My job is not easy at all.

You would make me out to be a murderer though, wouldn't you?

	24-01-2003 05:41									#224
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Nah, I'm saving my money to take a nice trip to Germany. Maybe Cancun too, because that place was fun as hell.

David. That sure reads funny.

	24-01-2003 05:43									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic panag is right. Where are the shields for Israel?

Yeah, of course. Helping Israel should be everybody´s first priority. Those poor, innocent people. So important to help Goliath defeat David, really.

Why I am not surprised you are bringing this up?

	24-01-2003 05:46									#226
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quote: If I'm ordered to fire on UNNARMED civilians, I would disobey orders and face a court-martial. And I would do that knowing it was the right thing to do, not firing on civilians.

What does it matter if they're armed or not? Further, let's say you were ordered to drop an atomic bomb on a city? Would you refuse that order? Because if you drop the bomb, you're a murderer (yes, Paul Tibbets was a murderer).

quote: If I'm ordered to fire on soldiers, I will do it. In a state of war, it's not murder.

First of all, it isn't a state of war until Congress declares it. Secondly, if the soldiers did nothing to you (or nothing to the US) then killing them IS murder. Just because a state sanctions murder does not mean that murder is OK.

quote: I've dealt with that issue of personal morality: can I excuse myself for killing another? It's tough. It's difficult. It's not something I look forward to.

If you don't look forward to it then why would you support a war, in any circumstance?

	24-01-2003 05:48									#227
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Tribune, alone on his island. Typing terroristic posts.
When suddenly, without warning,

	24-01-2003 05:52									#228
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This thread isn't going to last much longer if all this personal crap keeps up... talk politics... talk issues... but stop the personal stuff.

	24-01-2003 05:52									#229
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David, you really aren't going anywhere with this.

It DOES matter if a civilians is armed or not. It DOES matter if someone happens to SHOOT AT YOU. You are seriously saying that if you were in that position, you wouldn't shoot back? You'd just stand there and let yourself be killed? Foolishness.

No we aren't at war yet. But just read the news, the signs are everywhere. It's GOING to happen. If you think it won't then you are ignorant of what's going on. It WILL happen. There isn't much that can be done to stop it. Poland, the UK, and the USA have stated clearly that they are going in, regardless of whether the United Nations Security Council approves it or not. It's going to happen. Get it in your head.

I don't look forward to death, or seeing people die. I imagine that if I'm ever in a gunfight I will feel sad for anyone I may kill in the line of duty. It will not be something I am proud of.

I do what I do because it's a job, because I'd rather do something exciting and adventerous than sit on my ass at home and watch television. I'd rather not work a minimum wage job that gets me nowhere. I'd rather not just sit around and watch my life go by and say to myself : " I didn't do anything with my life." It would be a waste.

Comrade - actually I find that cartoon more humurous than the last one. Out of curiosity, where are you getting them from?

	24-01-2003 05:53									#230
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Typing terroristic posts.

Note how Free Speech has become 'terroristic'.

	24-01-2003 05:54									#231
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Like you say yourself David, procrastination is just like masturbation, it's just you ****ing yourself.

	24-01-2003 05:56									#232
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You miss David's point.
If they're coming up the sidewalk to his front door, he's out the back.
This isn't to be considered a personal attack, just analysis of a position.

	24-01-2003 05:57									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Out of curiosity, where are you getting them from?

I have collected them from diverse sources. They are sitting in a folder on my desktop to be used when a good opportunity comes up.

	24-01-2003 05:59									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune I have collected them from diverse sources. They are sitting in a folder on my desktop to be used when a good opportunity comes up.

I guess in light of this topic they came in handy then, eh?

I still think you're off, and I disagree, but you are clever. And probably a nice guy in real life. There's nothing wrong with people disagreeing with eachother.

-Mesh

	24-01-2003 06:02									#235
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Next time... discuss the issues. And if I see any of this kind of crap in other threads, someone won't be posting for a while.