24-01-2003 00:11									#151
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You're a hell of a guy, Trib. A hell of a guy...

	24-01-2003 00:15									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Comrade Tribune, I didn't think it would be possible to sink any lower, but you have. That cartoon is antisemitic and offensive.

No, it isn´t. It doesn´t say all Whites are Nazis like the guy on the left, and it doesn´t say all Jews are crazy idiots like the guy on the right. Though some, very obviously, are. And that includes those who say there 'are no Palestinians'.

	24-01-2003 00:16									#153
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Mesh,

quote: David Floyd - how about during WWII? When air raids all over the place bombed the heck out of "general" locations in cities? Civilians and military personel alike were killed, it was horrific. Is the UK, France, Germany, Russia, Italy, USA, China, Japan all murderers? By your standard, yes. But by the standard THEN, it was commonplace.

And by the standards of the 1820s, slavery was OK. But just because some people had funny ideas about freedom doesn't make slavery OK, now does it?

quote: Now the US and it's allies have stealth bombers/fighters that operate using PRECISE weapons, to take out military targets only. I won't insult your intelligence by implying you didn't know that too.

Um, killing soldiers who have done nothing wrong is murder too.

quote: Okay, and also, bear in mind the Saudi's BEGGED for US assistance in 1990, fearing that Iraq would invade them as well! Sure enough, Iraq took Kuwait, and Kuwait called for Allied help! So if you want to point blame, sure, you can blame the US for helping friends when they ask for help.

Yes, and they did so with my money. I refuse to support a military action outside the borders of the US, EVER, and only then in the case of invasion, so therefore I don't think my money should be used to pay for such actions.

Further, why were Saudi and Kuwait friends of the US? If we really love freedom, as a nation, we would not associate ourselves with such oppressive dictatorships.

quote: Regarding the Holocaust? Lemme guess, you would say it never happened? Or that it was RIGHT? C'mon, whoever says it never happened is full of it. Nazi officials even admitted to it. Ever heard of Albert Speer? Yeah he opposed it, but he knew it was happening.

Where did I deny the Holocaust happened? I was just proving a point - neither of us were there, yet we can still say it was wrong.

quote: By the way, read the UN reports on Iraqi chemical weapons/biological weapons. You'll find that there is more than enough weapons in Iraq to kill all life on earth, and I'm talking just biological here.

The US and Russia have far more weapons than that, so should we take on them next?
It's not as if Saddam is going to destroy the world, come on now.

Kramerman,

quote: Only if it is intentional

Or grossly negligent. Bombing a civilian center is murder, whether or not you "intend" to kill civilians.

quote: How is that relevant? Im sorry, but what happened at Auschwitz is a completely different circumstance than the Gulf War.

Of course, but Mesh made a comment that I wasn't qualified to comment on the Gulf War because I wasn't there. I responded that neither of us were at Auschwitz, yet we could still morally condemn the Holocaust.

quote: Then what are you complaining about?

Because Saddam not being a nice guy isn't an excuse to kill hundreds of thousands of people - or, quite frankly, an excuse to kill him.

quote: There can be a police action, where the President may deploy troops into hostilities for up to 60 days (IIRC), but for more time he must ask Congress for permission to continue, or ask them to declare war.

That isn't Constitutional.

	24-01-2003 00:19									#154
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quote: So basically, he's on the other side (I won't say "wrong", although I believe it to be so, but who here really listens to my opinions?) , and such comments are VERY dangerous. You have no idea Comrade.

"Very dangerous"?

A member of the military calling the free expression of ideas "dangerous" is just another sign that the population needs to arm themselves heavily, in case it ever becomes necessarily to fight the military.

And by "arm heavily" I don't mean a bunch of handguns - I mean assault rifles, landmines, anti-tank weapons, man-portable SAMs, etc.

	24-01-2003 00:19									#155
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Since when did the average Israeli say 'there is no Palestine, no Palestinian culture and no Palestinian people!'???

Mesh did; so he fits the caricature, I say.

	24-01-2003 00:26									#156
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quote: That isn't Constitutional.

Show me a case where the SCOTUS struck the War Powers Act down. They have had opportunities to do just that.

	24-01-2003 00:29									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka As for giving him to the hands of the US, I see no problem. Iraq is not our ally. We wouldn't do that by default, but if they ask us, I don't know.. why not?

Because you accepted him as a citizen. And your state has duties only to his citizens; not toward a foreign power.

	24-01-2003 00:30									#158
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Yes, and SCOTUS is always right, aren't they

	24-01-2003 00:33									#159
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Yes, yes, Austria, the land of extremes, the land of Hitler and Mozart.

Hitler was quite unsuccessful in Austria. But, as your avatar describes you nicely, this would have escaped your attention.

	24-01-2003 00:36									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 You realize you just sanctioned the United states to kill you, do you not? I'm not joking, you just proclaimed your an enemy, under international law, your now a leagal target.

The United States have no jurisdiction over Austria. Analphabetic Troglodyte.

	24-01-2003 00:40									#161
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 He just proclaimed he would do anything, and help anyone to hurt the United States.

No, I wouldn´t break Austrian law. I´m not an Anarchist. And the laws of your shitty country don´t apply to me. Get a grip.

	24-01-2003 00:43									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic So basically, he's on the other side (I won't say "wrong", although I believe it to be so, but who here really listens to my opinions?) , and such comments are VERY dangerous. You have no idea Comrade.

Are you trying to threaten me? I suppose that is against the law, even in a rogue state like US.

	24-01-2003 00:53									#163
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic The Indians were a tragic episode in American life, that is true, but that was how many hundreds of years ago?

.01 hundreds of years ago. You're such a patriot, in the worst sense of the wor, that you are completely blind to the continued abuses that the US government heaps upon the Indian nations.

BTW, you weren't calling for people to have their right to free speech taken away, you were calling for people to be executed at worst, and imprisoned at best, by declaring them traitors. That's a very serious charge which carries very serious consquences. They, on the other hand, are putting their lives on the line to defend other people from people like you and our government. If you people weren't such monsters, decent Americans wouldn't have to risk their lives helping innocent civilians.

	24-01-2003 00:58									#164
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such comments are dangerous meshelic?

learn another language than english or hebrew and visit the 90% of the net forums on this planet.

These comments are the norm.

	24-01-2003 01:04									#165
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Since when did the average Israeli say 'there is no Palestine, no Palestinian culture and no Palestinian people!'???

The Israeli Prime Minister, Golda Meier, (don't know if she was PM when she said it though) said it. Meshelic said it. Many of the extreme right-wing supporters of Israel continue to say it. I think it's extremely apt to show the similarity of Holocaust deniers and those who deny they existence of the Palestinian people. Both types of people are thoroughly despicable.

Just speaking as an American with some Jewish blood in him.

	24-01-2003 01:13									#166
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Some points, though, Che :

- noone doubts that there is a population that lived in this area before the end of the 19th century, that was defined as arab.
- I, personally doubt that any palestinian identity separate from the general falah arabic one can be found before the late 20s.
however, I'd be glad if someone could point it out. A strong separate palestinian identity only forms after the existance of Israel.
-Nowadays, that such identity exists, It should be treated as one.

	24-01-2003 01:16									#167
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there is a peoples under occupation.
you must end the occupation.
simple.

	24-01-2003 01:21									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Some points, though, Che : - noone doubts that there is a population that lived in this area before the end of the 19th century, that was defined as arab. - I, personally doubt that any palestinian identity separate from the general falah arabic one can be found before the late 20s. however, I'd be glad if someone could point it out. A strong separate palestinian identity only forms after the existance of Israel. -Nowadays, that such identity exists, It should be treated as one.

Your points are all valid, comrade, especially the last one. Those who wish to say that there is no such thing as a Palestinian ought to do well to remember that before 1948, there was no such thing as an Israeli either.

Nationalism isn't a natural identity but one that arises due to shared historical experiences. Today there are both Israelis and Palestinians. All sides need to remember that. Neither group has a superior or inferior claim to their shared homeland, and neither group has someplace else to go.


edit: fixed three typos in last sentence,

	24-01-2003 01:22									#169
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oh it is? and if the attacks continue?

	24-01-2003 01:28									#170
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then the attacks continue. Although they will be hugely reduced.

A free palestine will rally the world around Israel while the last shades of terrorist attacks continue and they will be deatl with.

Israel was and is not the only country which has had terrorist attacks and is not the first country that can make them go away with the right (and very brave) strategy.

	24-01-2003 01:28									#171
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Chris, I responded but the site's eating half the stuff I submit right now (getting a whole bunch of 404s)

It should diet.

quote: Suffice it to say: on what basis is a person who provides non-military aid to another country a valid military target? On what basis is an Austrian who gives aid and comfort to the enemies of the US a traitor?

Didn't say military or that he was a traitor, I said he made himself a target.

That what proclaiming you are an enemy is.

A silly target, but he did just sign his own death warrant, just for internet tomfoolery, becase if he were now killed, he proclaimed himself an enemy, and thus, fair game.

	24-01-2003 01:34									#172
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Che: hear hear.

Paiktis: whoa, fantasyland.

	24-01-2003 01:36									#173
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Didn't say military or that he was a traitor, I said he made himself a target. That what proclaiming you are an enemy is. A silly target, but he did just sign his own death warrant, just for internet tomfoolery, becase if he were now killed, he proclaimed himself an enemy, and thus, fair game.

If you weren´t such a ridiculous louse, I´d consider sueing you for making a death threat.

	24-01-2003 01:37									#174
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quote: The United States have no jurisdiction over Austria. Analphabetic Troglodyte.

You really are quite young, aern't you?
I'll remember to laugh when you vanish one noight, you can tell your captors all about international law!
That's an intersting signature, Analphabetic Troglodyte.
When did they start calling you that?

quote: No, I wouldn´t break Austrian law. I´m not an Anarchist. And the laws of your shitty country don´t apply to me. Get a grip.

That's international law child, you could be sanctioned anywhere on the planet, you foolish child.
Remember the guys driving down the road in Yeman?

Ha ha, proclaimed yourself an enemy, and you think your safe!
I'm sure those guys in Afghanistan thought that way!

	24-01-2003 01:37									#175
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Azazel, the sustainable (because of US backing) alternative is to live like you do now.

Terrorist attack, IDF operation, terrorist attack, IDF operation ad infinitum.

	24-01-2003 01:40									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune If you weren´t such a ridiculous louse, I´d consider sueing you for making a death threat.

Your quite deluded child, I never threatened you in the least.

You did this to yourself!

	24-01-2003 01:40									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 A silly target, but he did just sign his own death warrant, just for internet tomfoolery, becase if he were now killed, he proclaimed himself an enemy, and thus, fair game.

Btw, you have just fully justified Bin Laden. The US had proclaimed themselves his enemies, even before 9/11, so they were fair game. Whatever you say.

	24-01-2003 01:41									#178
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I think we have a potential roomy for...well, a fellow Texan who will go unidentified.







But his initials are David Floyd.

	24-01-2003 01:43									#179
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 I'll remember to laugh when you vanish one noight, you can tell your captors all about international law! That's international law child, you could be sanctioned anywhere on the planet, you foolish child. Remember the guys driving down the road in Yeman? Ha ha, proclaimed yourself an enemy, and you think your safe! I'm sure those guys in Afghanistan thought that way!

Thanks for exposing the criminal nature of the United States even better than I can.

	24-01-2003 01:44									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune Btw, you have just fully justified Bin Laden. The US had proclaimed themselves his enemies, even before 9/11, so they were fair game. Whatever you say.

I'm not the government, and if you notice, the US rarely justifies anything, so if you just up and missing, who would be the wiser?

You know, there are people monitoring the internet these days, and they now take threats seriously, you seem to have made quite a few.....