24-01-2003 08:56									#61
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Yeah. 'I'm gonna support a republican tax cut policy, but I won't ever seen much of it. But thats ok, because the rich people will take care of me. They will create jobs, and oppertunities for me. They know what to do best with their money and it will definitly help me.'

	24-01-2003 09:00									#62
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How's the wonderful worker's paradise in Argentina? Let me know when you descend to warlordism...

	24-01-2003 09:03									#63
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quote: Poor whites have historically voted conservatively in this country because they have been racist, Christian, and xenophobic.

Thanks for making my point for me. Here's a perfect example of what liberals really think about the people in the flyover. That's why I thought the cartoon was being hypocritical; liberals don't respect ordinary folk in the least, so how can they attack conservatives for doing the same thing?

quote: Yeah. 'I'm gonna support a republican tax cut policy, but I won't ever seen much of it. But thats ok, because the rich people will take care of me. They will create jobs, and oppertunities for me. They know what to do best with their money and it will definitly help me.'

I think you'll find that Midwesterners aren't afflicted with the envy and hatred of the successful that you find in most other places. Most people here respect those who have made a success of themselves.

	24-01-2003 09:04									#64
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I hope you'res not talking to me, GP, cuz I aint in Argentina.

	24-01-2003 09:06									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Yeah. 'I'm gonna support a republican tax cut policy, but I won't ever seen much of it. But thats ok, because the rich people will take care of me. They will create jobs, and oppertunities for me. They know what to do best with their money and it will definitly help me.'

I'll let you know the next time I get a job from a street person

	24-01-2003 09:09									#66
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Thats not the point

The point is that they support a tax cut which doesnt help them. Therefore, they are not voting for Bush based on his economic policies. Both parties (unfortunatley) give subsidies to farmers, so you cant point one way or the other.

Who says I hate wealthy people? I hate wealthy people who are so full of themselves because 'i had nothing and now I'm rich so the gummimmint shouldnt take nothing from me.' They profited the most from the system, they should pay the most.

	24-01-2003 09:10									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Thanks for making my point for me. Here's a perfect example of what liberals really think about the people in the flyover. That's why I thought the cartoon was being hypocritical; liberals don't respect ordinary folk in the least, so how can they attack conservatives for doing the same thing?

What does respect have to do with it? I was just stating a fact. You haven't givin me any reason why ordinary folk should support the tax cut when they aren't getting anything for it. It's obviously because they support the hierarchial system.

	24-01-2003 09:12									#68
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people are greedy. They wont support things which dont beneift them. Therefore, they wont support the republican party for a tax cut that doesnt benefit them.
So, what are the other reasons for supporting that party?

	24-01-2003 09:13									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia I hope you'res not talking to me, GP, cuz I aint in Argentina.

crap. You have a doppelganger.

	24-01-2003 09:13									#70
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Lawrence, the point is someone like my wife and myself both dealt with 5 years of college apiece, $75000 in student loans with two jobs while in college, and have finally after 7 years graduated moved into the top tax bracket. With two kids and two grandparents to support, a mortgage and student loans, I am still working two jobs, as is my wife.
I damn well want to keep more of my money.

	24-01-2003 09:15									#71
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quote: You haven't givin me any reason why ordinary folk should support the tax cut when they aren't getting anything for it.

Maybe they support it because it's fair. Maybe they support it because they know the people who pay the most taxes should get the most relief. You act like these people are idiots just because they aren't greedy and riddled with envy.

	24-01-2003 09:16									#72
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quote: Originally posted by cia I'll let you know the next time I get a job from a street person

You are assuming I take it that rich people take care or everyone? By giving us jobs I suppose.

Jobs are created due to economic growth, not just because business owners and investors give them out. They never do so unless they can profit from it. The best way to make job creation profitable is not by cutting taxes for the rich.

	24-01-2003 09:16									#73
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Maybe they support a tax break because they want to be wealthy at some point and haven't given up like most liberals.

	24-01-2003 09:18									#74
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quote: Originally posted by cia Maybe they support a tax break because they want to be wealthy at some point and haven't given up like most liberals.

That would be even stupider since the vast majority will not ever be wealthy.

	24-01-2003 09:20									#75
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Duncan, no one takes care of me. I offer a business a service which they must pay for to get. A price is agreed upon and the deal proceeds from there. Most businesses are small ( I believe under 10 employees) and so decreasing their taxes allows someone who needs to hire an additional worker but could not economically stretch that far the opportunity to do so.

	24-01-2003 09:21									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: You haven't givin me any reason why ordinary folk should support the tax cut when they aren't getting anything for it. Maybe they support it because it's fair. Maybe they support it because they know the people who pay the most taxes should get the most relief. You act like these people are idiots just because they aren't greedy and riddled with envy.

You actually believe this?! You sound like the guys in the cartoon. Have you ever had to worry about not paying for things you need? They think its fair?!

	24-01-2003 09:22									#77
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quote: That would be even stupider since the vast majority will not ever be wealthy.

So all the folks in the Midwest are stupid for having confidence in themselves and hope for the future?

	24-01-2003 09:24									#78
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quote: Originally posted by cia Duncan, no one takes care of me. I offer a business a service which they must pay for to get. A price is agreed upon and the deal proceeds from there. Most businesses are small ( I believe under 10 employees) and so decreasing their taxes allows someone who needs to hire an additional worker but could not economically stretch that far the opportunity to do so.

The fact that only a small number of small businesses get any tax break at all, and most of them don't has already been discussed.

	24-01-2003 09:26									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: That would be even stupider since the vast majority will not ever be wealthy. So all the folks in the Midwest are stupid for having confidence in themselves and hope for the future?

I would say they are stupid to vote Republican just because they think they will be rich in the future.

	24-01-2003 09:27									#80
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GP: whats a doppelganger?

CIA: Well, if the US had full retirement pensions for every american, you wouldnt need to worry about your grandparents. Of course, that means more taxes before to pay for later. Yes, your situation is dire. You obviously need to cut your spending (first and formost by getting rid of your internet line so then you cant challenge me so much ) by moving to a lower cost house, going out to eat less, buying less expensive food, consuming less gas and electricity and water. In hindsight you should have layed off getting that house with the big mortgage (but of course hindsight is 20/20. Did you know before you bought it that you had to support your grandparents too? How old are they?)

	24-01-2003 09:29									#81
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quote: I would say they are stupid to vote Republican just because they think they will be rich in the future.

That's only part of the reason. They also value fairness and the rewarding of merit, values that seem to have fallen out of favor in the rest of the country.

	24-01-2003 09:31									#82
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Drake - Maybe they arnt greedy, but the republicans are then just playing them for political gain for their own.

CIA: you can be wealthy and not have tax breaks at the same time. Who says I've given up?

	24-01-2003 09:35									#83
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quote: Drake - Maybe they arnt greedy, but the republicans are then just playing them for political gain for their own.

Why? It's quite possible that they ordinary folk in the Midwest actually agree with the Republicans. Why is it so outrageous to think that people might actually support a tax cut that rewards taxpayers based on how much they put into the system? Since when does supporting fairness make you a rube?

	24-01-2003 09:44									#84
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'fairness' is a very loaded term. 'fair' from your perspective is different from mine.

Why should we 'reward' the richest taxpayers? Because they vote overwhelmnigly republican? Will this 'reward' push the economy forward? of course not! The tax cut will return vast sums of money into the poketbooks of rich americans who will say thank you very much, sit down on their cushy couch and invest into the stockmarket.

Meanwhile, the rest of the US is going down the toilet literally. But thats fine, as long as the rich get a 'reward'

Thats fair

Isnt it?

	24-01-2003 09:49									#85
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quote: 'fairness' is a very loaded term. 'fair' from your perspective is different from mine.

I'm just trying to give the general Midwestern view of "fairness", as I see it.

quote: Will this 'reward' push the economy forward? of course not!

Why not? The money's going to be put back into the economy; it's not going to sit under some rich guy's bed.

quote: The tax cut will return vast sums of money into the poketbooks of rich americans who will say thank you very much, sit down on their cushy couch and invest into the stockmarket.

And investing in the stockmarket doesn't boost the economy?

quote: Meanwhile, the rest of the US is going down the toilet literally.

In absolute terms, most of the US is doing very well. I don't see where you get the "going down the toilet" idea from.

	24-01-2003 09:50									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: I would say they are stupid to vote Republican just because they think they will be rich in the future. That's only part of the reason. They also value fairness and the rewarding of merit, values that seem to have fallen out of favor in the rest of the country.

If this country valued fairness there would be no rich.

	24-01-2003 09:53									#87
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Investing in the stockmarket will NOT boost the economy.
And yes, the money will go under the mattress (*so he doesnt have to declare it to the IRS) or into an offshore tax haven (so he doesnt ahve to declare it to the IRS)

Ill tell you where I get the toilet idea from

Nearly 6% unemployment, inflation rate which is steadily growing at a slower and slower rate, low GDP growth

	24-01-2003 09:53									#88
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quote: If this country valued fairness there would be no rich.

Equality of results is not the same as fairness...

	24-01-2003 09:54									#89
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK If this country valued fairness there would be no rich.

Well said, comrade.

	24-01-2003 09:55									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten And investing in the stockmarket doesn't boost the economy?

Money going into the stock market will help the economy precious little. However, if the end results are budget deficits and there is a tax increase for low and middle income tax payers then you will see big problems for the economy.