23-01-2003 18:23									#1
	A liberal and a conservative were sitting in a bar. Then Bill Gates walked in. Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

and some opinion...

quote: On Saturday, in his weekly radio address, President Bush declared that "the tax relief I propose will give 23 million small-business owners an average tax cut of $2,042 this year." That remark is intended to give the impression that the typical small-business owner will get $2,000. But, as the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities points out, most small businesses will get a tax break of less than $500. About 5 million of those 23 million small businesses will get no break at all. The average is more than $2,000 only because a small number of very wealthy businessmen will get huge tax cuts. So the latest round of Bush tax cuts, like the previous round, mainly provides benefits to the very, very well-off -- and once again the administration is shamelessly misrepresenting the content of its own policies. But, aside from the honor and integrity thing, should we care? There's been a concerted effort to convince us that we shouldn't -- that anyone who even pays attention to who gets what must be motivated by envy.

full thing
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansa...ess/5007902.htm

	23-01-2003 18:30									#2
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if someone in kansas can see through the bullshit why cant the rest of the nation?

	23-01-2003 18:31									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

AVERAGE: Very nice and govern-mentally loved word.

	23-01-2003 18:33									#4
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quote: if someone in kansas can see through the bullshit

quote: Paul Krugman writes for The New York Times. His column appears on Thursdays.

i guess you can apply what you said to the editor of kansascity.com

	23-01-2003 18:39									#5
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This column was reprinted in Joong Ang as well.

the ollllld 'average' trick.....why don't politicians at least talk about medians if they're trying to say 'most people'.

	23-01-2003 18:40									#6
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indeed

	23-01-2003 19:13									#7
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You talk about this like you think Bush understands the difference between a median and a mean.

	23-01-2003 19:20									#8
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And yet another banal MarkG "Tom Tomorrow" thread gets filled with sycophants looking to suck the zits of the ass of their Great Leader.

Er, um, I mean: Great cartoon, Mark! Wonderful, brilliantly original message, one that is NEVER heard amongst this crowd.

	23-01-2003 19:22									#9
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JohnT -
Increase your medication...

	23-01-2003 19:23									#10
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I did. How do you think I turned out this way???

	23-01-2003 19:28									#11
	Remove this text

But of course. It can be seen in your eyes...

	23-01-2003 19:29									#12
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And my refusal to put the Christmas decorations away...

	23-01-2003 20:42									#13
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I can't read all that text in that comic strip. Could you boil it down? You can throw in a cute smilie for atmosphere.

	23-01-2003 20:50									#14
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GP, in short: wealty people suck

	23-01-2003 21:07									#15
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 if someone in kansas can see through the bullshit why cant the rest of the nation?

I don't know about where you live, but the B.S. here is several miles thick. They don't make X-ray machines strong enough...

	23-01-2003 21:18									#16
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i live in san francisco, i have to put up with pinko commie liberal hippy socialists all the time...they are better than conservatives because at least they dont run the country...

	23-01-2003 21:30									#17
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IIRC the stats, the top 50% pay 96% of the taxes. The top 20% pay 76% of all taxes. Again, correct me if I am wrong.

How can one cut taxes and not have the benefits go to those who are paying them now - the higher income brackets?

	23-01-2003 21:33									#18
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DONT ****ING CUT TAXES THEN! EASY SOLUTION!

JUST FOR ANGERING ME NED EVERY BOX GOING TO APTOS TODAYS IS GOING TO BE SMASHED! GAHHHHHHHHHH

	23-01-2003 21:35									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ned How can one cut taxes and not have the benefits go to those who are paying them now - the higher income brackets?

By cutting taxes at the bottom end of the scale instead of the top end.

In other words, bump up the personal exemption.

	23-01-2003 21:54									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger By cutting taxes at the bottom end of the scale instead of the top end. In other words, bump up the personal exemption.

Bumping up the personal exemption does nothing for the 50% who don't pay taxes, whom, incidentally enough, are the "bottom 50%" of the income scale. In other words, regardless of what one does re: income taxes in this country, foolish and misleading cartoons like the one above will always be true... except, of course, in the manner in which the author intended.

But what does a little deceit matter anyway?

	23-01-2003 22:04									#21
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i do pay taxes actually...and im the bottom 50%...so youre either stupid or lying...

	23-01-2003 22:18									#22
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Bumping up the personal exemption does nothing for the 50% who don't pay taxes, whom, incidentally enough, are the "bottom 50%" of the income scale.

Really now. 50% of wage-earners don't pay taxes?

Thank you, come again.

	23-01-2003 22:19									#23
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i do pay taxes actually...and im the bottom 50%...so youre either stupid or lying...

You know, I do NOT understand peoples need to disagree with insults. It is silly, immature, and does nothing for your reputation on this board, MRT.

A little research goes a long way. Why, my very second link on Google pointed me to the following IRS site:

http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/pub/irs-soi/00in01rt.xls

Check out 149:G

If you are too bored or too disinterested to look, it states that the top 50% of wage earners paid over 96.09% of all Federal Income Taxes in the year 2000.

But then, somebody has to pay the 3.91% the rest of us aren't paying. Looks like you're it, MRT.

	23-01-2003 22:20									#24
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Up here in socialist Canada the personal exemption is ~8000$CAN and a minimum-wage job pays about 15000$CAN assuming a 40 hour work week. And the median income is ~25000$CAN...

	23-01-2003 22:21									#25
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"If you are too bored or too disinterested to look, it states that the top 50% of wage earners paid over 96.09% of all Federal Income Taxes in the year 2000."

Let me reiterate before somebody starts whining about FICA, state taxes, etc.: Federal Income Taxes is what the cartoon, and my comment, is about.

	23-01-2003 22:24									#26
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John, you need to go back to school. You said that the bottom 50% don't pay taxes. Which they do. So upping the personal exemption would positively affect their tax burden more heavily per unit tax dollar collected than would an across the board tax cut.

In other words, assuming your numbers are correct the upper half would get 90% of benefit or something instead of 96%.

	23-01-2003 22:26									#27
	Got spare money?

sorry for the insults, it just angers me when people think im getting by like a freeloader. and my reputation here is already tainted...

And i do pay federal income taxes, albiet a couple hundred dollars.

of course i would be more likely to spend the money i dont pay in taxes rather than save it like a rich person would likely do.

	23-01-2003 22:26									#28
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And this also says nothing about the dividend tax cut, which impacts the rich more heavily than proportional (since stock ownership increases faster than linearly with income).

	23-01-2003 22:30									#29
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Dividends... income... People, what is it about this that you do not understand? Are you congentially unable to follow simple financial concepts that do not come from economic textbooks? Or are you just wanting to redefine the terms in ways that nobody, including the IRS, agrees with?

Even the IRS admits that, for 1/2 of all income earners in this country, the Federal Income Tax is moot. Take it up with them if you disagree - I'm just reporting what they say. Don't like it? That is not my problem.

	23-01-2003 22:34									#30
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so yes, im that 3.91% who makes up the rest of the taxpayers. does that mean i dont pay taxes? the two facts arent mutually exclusive...