02-02-2003 10:36									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Here's a draft of a message I could send to Panzer. I wanted to post it here because of the sensititivity of the issue, and to give everyone the opportunity to pass along comments and suggestions. I honestly don't love the wording of the message itself -- it doesn't give much of a reason for changing what we accepted earlier (Writing once we have it) besides internal team pressures. It's mainly my fault -- I was counting on their warrior being well out before we got writing, so I didn't emphisize the "your warrior must be out first" clause enough. Anyway, I'm trying to play it off as forced by internal team pressures and not a major change, but if anyone has any better ideas about how to describe it (or even how I should word the message), let me know.

quote: Panzer, We'd like to change the timeline on the deal a bit to make it closer to what we originally planned, before we spent several days haggling. It'd still be the same basic deal, but we'd be more comfortable with the timeline rearranged a bit . (I'm sorry this wasn't included earlier -- it was a requirement that I didn't forsee). We'd propose the following changes: -GoW Gives: Horseback riding now. GoW begins warrior removal. -Roleplay Gives: Writing for 60g after the removal of the GoW warriors -Removal of warriors: Moving them north of our northernmost city, Saragossa. This'd still be the same basic deal -- it'd just move the timeline around a little. Again, I'm sorry I didn't ask about it before -- it wasn't something I'd anticipated, but it seems one or two members of my team won't be satisfied without it :-\. Thanks. -- adaMada quote: adaMada, It seems that in the chaos, that your PM got forgot about (perhaps because a new page was started after its posting). We have also recieved messages from Togas asking whether you have been active. I now see that you have been waiting for us... Therefore (wording changed to reflect Roleplay having discovered writing): The Glory of War accepts this deal. The points are: -GoW Gives: Horseback riding, warrior removal, and 60 gold, all now. -Roleplay Gives: Writing, now. -Neither team will trade the tech it acquires for fifteen turns after acquisition. This deal is accepted by the GoW. When Roleplay accepts it, it will be final. About the 15 turn non-trading: I assume this starts at 1950bc, since that is the curent turn. I calculate that 15 turns from that is 1500bc, since the switch from 40 year turns to 25 year turns happens at 1750bc. If I am wrong, please contact me. Thank you. Also, question: what tech is Roleplay researching now? This is so the Glory of War can chose a different tech and then we can trade. Panzer32, Foreign Affairs Consul the Glory of War

	02-02-2003 13:24									#32
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ada,

I think Togas suggestion is safer : do not excuse, do not tell this is a change, your are just asking the agreement to be precisely stated. It is true that Writing was intended to be given after the removal, and you give a reasonnable definition of what the removal is.

	02-02-2003 13:29									#33
	Got spare money?

DO NOT make excuses. Simply spell out the deal in simple language and believe that this was the deal all along ... wasn't it? You are not changing the timeline or adding details, you are merely giving a logical definition to "removal" so that both sides can follow it.

Don't play it off as forced. Did you think that the deal was that they didn't have to remove their warriors and suddenly we're changing it?? I don't understand why you would feel that we're changing anything. We are merely defining it so that there is no misunderstanding and so that they do not abuse our lack of definitions after the deal is done.

--Togas

	03-02-2003 09:29									#34
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sorry -- I've been out of the house and busy all day.

Would this message be better? It has less window dressing and no explanation -- it basically just asks for the change in the deal. Very straightfoward -- it's basically the new deal with nothing on top. Again, I don't love the message -- too short, if nothing else -- so if anyone has anything (perferably meaningless but friendly) that I could add, please pass it along.

quote: Panzer, We are generally happy with the proposal you sent us, however, we'd ask for one or two minor clarifications. Specifically, we'd like: -GoW Gives: Horseback riding now. GoW begins warrior removal. -Roleplay Gives: Writing for 60g after the removal of the GoW warriors -Removal of warriors: Moving them north of our northernmost city, Saragossa. Thanks. -- adaMada

Togas and DAVOUT,
I've gotta run again right now (busy day :-\), but I'll answer your questions tomorrow.

-- adaMada

	03-02-2003 21:27									#35
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This is taking far too long

We have received the save again this morning. The deal should have been wrapped up Saturday. They now have a legitimate reason to accuse us of stalling. We already had to decline their offer once and I have yet to open the save to see if we're going to have to decline it again.

I am sending the following message to Panzer NOW:

quote: I am sorry that we have not gotten back to you sooner, but there was far too much discussion on the language of this deal, and adaMada has been too busy with school so I have decided to prepare this letter to you because we need to close this deal. We agree to the following: -GoW Gives: Horseback riding, warrior removal, and 60 gold in exchange for writing. -Roleplay Gives: Writing, after removal of warriors. -Neither team will trade the tech it acquires for fifteen turns after acquisition of tech from the other team. - Both Basher & Basher Jr. must be removed. - Removal consists of moving to a point north of Saragossa. Saragossa is located on the southern edge of the jungle. quote: Also, question: what tech is Roleplay researching now? This is so the Glory of War can chose a different tech and then we can trade. We will be happy to discuss future tech research and trade after all GoW warriors have been removed.

--Togas

	04-02-2003 03:36									#36
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Godking sent me an email with a copy of the following text he received from DeepO. GK indicates that he is having trouble connecting to Poly. Hopefully his trouble will be shortly resolved.

quote: GodKing, I'm sorry to be late in answering you, it both was a busy weekend, and we needed to discuss this. First of all, we would be happy to have some kind of limited non-disclosure agreement on writing. But there are a few problems with it, in that we fear that there won't be enough reason for you to do it. You will discover writing before us, it seems, as we will have some 2-3 turns left to research when you complete it. The (in)stability with Vox has left us to work on our defensive capabilities first before we could search for nobler goals like the concept of writing. Further, if there is one thing the tense peace between Vox and GS has learned us, is that their research capabilities are rather limited, most likely we won't be able to trade writing away the moment we discover it for the simple reason there won't be anything to trade for.... So if you would be willing to delay trading writing away, it is easy for us to agree to do the same as we can't speed up the release of writing into the world; it would be completely at your pace. As to the contact of Vox: yes they have one contact with a team outside us. I'm not sure if you were assuming this already, but the team of Lux Invicta are in close proximity to them. We can't reach Lux for the moment, so we effectively have to deal with a middleman when it comes to trading our knowledge around. We're hoping this situation gets resolved quickly. It would please us to know whether you have direct, in-game contact with Lux. One of the ways to do get out of our isolation is to build boats soon, or be reached by boats soon. As a result, Map making is high on our research list, but there are other choices too (and we're discussing what's next). Do you intend to research MM soon, building a few boats to explore the nearby coasts? Maybe we can trade this technology in the near future, if either of us will go for it first. Kind regards, DeepO of Gathering Storm

	04-02-2003 03:43									#37
	Put an end to popups!

Godking -- Inform Storm that we are trading with a team other than Lux Invicta for now and that we have signed a "no-trade" clause that should prohibit them from passing on Writing to Lux for at least 15 turns. Hopefully this will help them should they seek a trade with Vox in the near future.

We are not researching Mapmaking presently, as it seems that many other teams (Storm included) are working on this tech and we would prefer to have something to exchange with Storm when their boats reach our shore.

Upon contact with us we would be happy to sign a non-agression pact and perhaps sell them contact with many of the other nations we have contact with.

--Togas

	04-02-2003 03:46									#38
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Everyone: what we are researching should be kept secret. We will later determine when and if we want to reveal it. I would prefer that we remain vague and delay answering such questions for as long as possible.

I do not want to tip off anyone that we're working towards the Great Library until after we have writing and they get the message "Spain is Building The Great Library" when they open their save.

--Togas

	04-02-2003 04:40									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Everyone: what we are researching should be kept secret. We will later determine when and if we want to reveal it. I would prefer that we remain vague and delay answering such questions for as long as possible. I do not want to tip off anyone that we're working towards the Great Library until after we have writing and they get the message "Spain is Building The Great Library" when they open their save. --Togas

Assuming we're using Madrid to built the Great Library, we should work on a different wonder, like the Pyramids, to throw people off. Of course people will realize that we are banking the shields for something else, but then they have a guessing game as to what we're after.

	04-02-2003 07:01									#40
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Here is a PM I sent BFM - with regards to several matters ordered here and in the Analysis thread by Togas. Also, asking for an update of the ND situation.

quote: Hello Mi Amigo, I just wanted to let you know that, we are still trying to finalize the deal with GoW that Togas told you about several days ago. Hopefully, I'll have news for you either way soon. Will you still be interested in Writing even if we make the trade with GoW? Perhaps you can think of what you might trade for it. Do you have any idea what you would want in exchange for contact with the People of One Voice, Vox Controli - another matter perhaps you can think about? We have not seen any ND settler groups - have you? are they settling North and East towards you and GoW? Any indication from your scouts? I hope things settle down between you & ND, but please keep me posted. I doubt a war at this stage could help either of you. I wish you peace, jdjdjd, Friend and Ambassador to Lux Invicta

	04-02-2003 07:47									#41
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Ah, I have an update to make, honor thane lords.

I have an unbreakable engagement on Wednesday evening, and thus I cannot be present at the settlement talks with Sultan Borc, which displeases me greatly. However, rather than fish for another evening to do this, I suggest Milord Togas, as he is planning, attend, and finish this business in his own way, as is the right way, as I am sure my own work would be petty, as all of ours are, in comparison to his.

I apologize again. I will inform Senor Picahulu.

Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger

	05-02-2003 01:30									#42
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Message from Panzer:
Just recieved. Will comment more shortly.

-- adaMada

quote: Also sent to Togas. adaMada, I am sorry, but the Glory of War cannot accept this revised agreement. The original agreement called for writing to be exchanged "upon aquisition". Since Roleplay has now aquired writing, "upon aquisition" means immediatly. The Glory of War is upset at the arbitrary changing of the deal by Roleplay. If we go back to the original agreement, where the warriors do not have to be removed BEFORE the tech deal goes through, the Glory of War would be happy to trade with Roleplay. To recap the aforementioned agreement: -GoW Gives: Horseback riding, warrior removal, and 60 gold in exchange for writing, all immediatly. -Roleplay Gives: Writing, immediatly. -Neither team will trade the tech it acquires for fifteen turns after acquisition of tech from the other team. -Both Basher & Basher Jr. will be removed. I think that Roleplay might have not quite understood the term "removal" of warriors. To clarify, this means the warriors will go back home to the Glory of War lands, north of where Neo Demogyptica is located. I hope this has not been the reason this agreement has been held up. Again, if Roleplay agees to this, there will be no hard feelings. However, if Roleplay does not agree, the Glory of War will be extremely upset. We have no guarantee that you will not change the contract again as you just did. Roleplay, seemingly out of blue, reworded an agreed upon treaty to include a city of Sargossa that was never mentioned before. We will be extremely wary of trading with Roleplay in the future, since they are liable to reword the agreement and thus reneg on the agreement. If Roleplay does not accept this deal, and thus betrays us, the Glory of War would have no alternative but to warn the other teams of their behaviour to us. On a somewhat unrelated note: There are two groups of jungle. How is the Glory of War supposed to know exactly where Saragossa is. There are two jungles, and therefore two southern edges of the jungle. We have discovered a couple Roleplay cities, but have not discovered the names. Even if the Glory of War would agree to go along with your revised agreement, we would not know where exactly Roleplay wanted us to go. Even so, there is no way the Glory of War would accept the revised agreement, this last paragraph was just for future reference. Thank you, Panzer32, Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War

	05-02-2003 02:00									#43
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quote: I think that Roleplay might have not quite understood the term "removal" of warriors. To clarify, this means the warriors will go back home to the Glory of War lands, north of where Neo Demogyptica is located. I hope this has not been the reason this agreement has been held up.

This is THE reason why the agreement was held up.
Ignore all of their other bullsh*t, this is their typical blow-hard response. No apologies. I will reply with a more specific definition for "removal" that includes their language and our own.

I will post it here shortly.

--Togas

	05-02-2003 02:09									#44
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

... and here I thought our relations were on the mend somewhat

I would be happy to let the deal go through while they are in the process of returning home.

	05-02-2003 02:24									#45
	Got spare money?

I have sent the following reply to Panzer:

quote: Panzer, There is no prior "agreement" which is why we are attempting to negotiate this one with you. Our concern is primarily for the removal of your warriors. That has been and will remain a vital part of the agreement. A definition must be created to define removal. Therefore, I propose the following: -GoW Gives: Horseback riding, and returns all military units near Spanish territory home. For the purpose of this agreement, this process will be called "removal". GoW will give 60 gold in trade for writing after removal. -Roleplay Gives: Writing after removal of all GoW warriors in exchange for 60 gold. -Neither team will trade the tech it acquires for fifteen turns after acquisition of tech from the other team. -Basher & Basher Jr., and any other GoW warriors in RolePlay territory will be removed and return home. A warrior considered "removed" once he moves north of Saragossa. Basher will be "removed" if he moves North four times. Upon that turn he will be just north of a river, and have a game tile to his SE. That tile, and any tiles further north of it, is north of Saragossa and will sufficiently demonstrate that the warrior is "removed" from Spanish territory. Should any GoW miltary unit move to any tile south (SE & SW included) of that tile, it will demonstrate that GoW does not intend to remove and return home, and will violate this agreement. Should Basher (while still south of Saragossa) move in any direction other than north, that will demonstrate that GoW does not intend to comply with this agreement, and this agreement will be violated. Do you agree to these terms and definitions? --Togas

	06-02-2003 06:16									#46
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Here is response from BFM - they wanr Writing from us.
Obviously, if GoW deal falls through, we may only get HBR for Writing from Lux. Perhaps the GOW trade could be - they move North, and when done, we could trade HBR + 60 for Writing then - they may hesitate to give HBR and get nothing back. But, I don't care if this deal falls through - they are being a-holes about it. BFM on the otherhand, has been nothing but pleasant.

BFM's PM

quote: Hello jdjdjd! We have not seen any ND settlers lately, but we do see an awful lot of ND cities! As for the Military: fortunately, we are well defended (also with some offensive units, hehe) if they attack (we will not attack ourselves, since we agree with you: a war wouldn't benefit us). To be honest with you - I don't know where we should get Writing from if we cannot get it from you. The situation with ND is very tense, and I'm not very happy trading it from GoW. Do you have a proposal? As far as Contacts are concerned - we are still trying to make contact with other civs! We are still scouting out some lands. Keep me posted, BFM of Lux

	06-02-2003 07:31									#47
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

We agreed to a 20 turn Non-Agression Pact with Neu Dem today during our settlement talks. So 20 turns from 1830BC the agreement will end.

Neu Dem wants to build a city by the silk, and they also want the gems site. They were extremely cordial but there are small questions about a few of their requests and comments that lead me to believe that they are just as slippery as our many other neighbors.

jdjdjd -- Propose to sell Writing to Lux Invicta for 100g. Let them know that we will be happy to agree to a partial gpt turn if that would help them. Also ask them if they would trade Writing to us for their contact with Vox. Let them know that we know they have contact with Vox.

Ask them how many cities Neu Dem can build in the north, and how many cities they have room for. Let them know that we're trying to figure out how crowded it is up there because Neu Dem claims that they have no room up there.

Also ask if they have settled a "twin city" next to one of Neu Dem's cities. If so, ask them for their side of the story.

History Guy -- Thank Neu Dem for coming to our negotiation, etc, etc. Let them know that we have carefully considered their proposal but we are ultimately unhappy with it. Explain to them that Spain cannot see El Valle De Los Torros, the heartland of Spain, split in half, it would be a horrible blow to our pride and our heritage to surrender it.

We also think it is wise that we use the jungle as a natural barrier between us so that both teams are not tempted to betray the other. Their proposal seems to place Arabian cities in the midst of our cities. This could cause too much tension or temptation for us both.

Their proposal would give them only 2 reasonable city sites in the process. We propose, instead, that they settle the lush, wide valley to their east that will give them far more city sites and will send them an image highlighting the many excellent city sites that we are prepared to give up so that they will have a place to grow. Please send them the most recent image I had posted in the ND border thread.

--Togas

Last edited by Togas on 06-02-2003 at 23:36

	06-02-2003 09:23									#48
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Message from Panzer:
-- adaMada

quote: adaMada, I can see now how Roleplay is conducting their diplomacy. Roleplay is conducting as Hitler did with Britain before World War II. Roleplay is assured we won't attack them, because of both our nonagression pact and the distance from the Glory of War homeland. Roleplay is playing on this fact, and is trying to squeeze more out of the Glory of War in diplomacy. We have no desire to be your Chamberlain by feeding into your leadership's egomania and their continually altering demands. Roleplay told the Glory of War they would trade writing to us for a certain deal, and we accepted. Then you informed us that you decided to change the deal and we began working to meet that one. Then you changed it again. We have no idea if this philosophy is that of your team or simply your leadership but it is difficult to maintain any form of mutually beneficial relationship with a team that regards the treaties it agrees to as little more than frivilous scratchpads of no value. We have honored every agreement with your team since the beginning even when other civs gave us bonus techs and the deals were no longer equal trades. We find it very sad that your team still will not honor this agreement. The Glory of War does not accept your revised agreement. We will accept the agreement sent in my last PM, but now with less money. The Glory of War is not paying Roleplay to sit idle and start revising a contract. Therefore, the amount the Glory of War will pay Roleplay is reduced to 20 gold. If they still have not agreed to do the deal within 2 more turns (when the GoW gets the 1790bc save), this price will be reduced to zero. If we define 'removal' as the warriors starting to move north, then the deal will be acceptable. Of course, the Glory of War will continue to move the warrior north. If you recall, the deal the Glory of War proposes is very beneficial to the Roleplay team. You get 20 gold, horseback riding, and the removal (see aforementioned definition) of the basher and basher jr. For this, you only have to give up writing. If you do not want to trade with the Glory of War, simply say so rather than propose proposterous deals that the Glory of War already rejected. This is the prior agreement: quote: Sent by adaMada, official diplomat to GoW If you will accept what is above, Roleplay will accept offer #3. To refresh everyone's memory, it was: GoW Gives: Horseback riding and warrior removal now and 60 gold upon reception of writing. Roleplay Gives: Writing upon acquisition * Neither team will trade the tech it acquires for fifteen turns after acquisition. And from my reply to this: quote: This deal is accepted by the GoW I quote from your last PM: quote: Sent by Togas, leader of Roleplay There is no prior "agreement" which is why we are attempting to negotiate this one with you I believe that if you said, "If you will accept what is above, Roleplay will accept offer #3", and the Glory of War accepted it, then it is a "prior agreement". It is the Glory of War's belief that we had a deal. Your claim that we did not have a prior agreement is a disgrace. The offer we have outlined in this message is final. The Roleplay team has been playing this game in a dishonorable fashion and the Glory of War plans on advertising this fact to all other teams unless the deal is accepted immediately. Thank you, Panzer32, Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War; Along with the rest of the Glory of War team.

EDIT:
The major communication that Panzer doesn't mention in his above message was one AFTER the one he quotes from me, where he asks that we finalize the dea and sign off on it. (It's posted someplace here if needed). If he hadn't sent that and had rather just acknowledged my message, the deal would have simply gone through. Having said that, I'd rather not use that specific communication to challange him, since it is (in my opinion) common curtesy to check the deal one last time with both teams, and we'd be wondering onto slightly unstable grounds to try to use that against them. I'm mainly just pointing it out so people on our team can recall how the issue resurfaced. Will post more tomorrow and answer any questions then/send a reply if we've decided what it is -- it's midnight over here, and I've gotta be back up at six, or else I'd hang around and try to work out more of this now :-\. Sorry. -- adaMada

EDIT EDIT: One last note. The original deal they offered stated that we'd give them writing "In four turns" with a footnote of "Four turns is when writing is aquired." (I can dig up the exact wording, or find it in the other thread.) To try to simplify things, I just said "when writing is aquired" in the final deal -- time had passed anyway, and it was basically the same deal. Looking back, that was probably a mistake :-\, though I doubt it'dve made any difference anyway -- they'dve just held us to the footnote if I'd left it worded that way. Sorry anyway -- it seems that every time I say anything it manages to come back and bite us in the a*s. :-\

	06-02-2003 09:42									#49
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: The Roleplay team has been playing this game in a dishonorable fashion and the Glory of War plans on advertising this fact to all other teams unless the deal is accepted immediately.

If the deal falls through, let them.

and the comparison to Hitler?

God, I hope they negotiate with all the teams the same way they're negotiating with us. If so, it will be PAINFULLY simple to line everyone up against them.

Gloria Belli Delenda Est.

	06-02-2003 09:54									#50
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I don't blame them for being p*ssed

	06-02-2003 11:32									#51
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser I don't blame them for being p*ssed

Yeah, I'm somewhat suprised they haven't declared war on us yet.

	06-02-2003 22:18									#52
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I blame them for being p*ssed. They are trying to control the way we define "removed" by saying that removal = when they START moving their units forward. Removal = when they are actually removed.

I sent them a definition of when we would consider them removed. They refuse to accept our definition.

Tough luck. They're out HBR and they won't get Writing. Their gripes and accusations and intimidation aren't going to sway me.

--Togas

	06-02-2003 22:49									#53
	Put an end to popups!

Letter sent to Panzer32:

quote: Panzer32, adaMada has posted your response to our forum. I'm not going to waste my time commending on your continuing insults and threats and make this very clear, because your team doesn't seem to care to understand what MY position is, and your team continue to believe that by misquoting my ambassador and playing word games you can force me to change MY position on this deal. I, as leader of Spain, am not giving you ANYTHING until your warriors are OUT OF SPAIN, period. That was always our position, when we talk about "removal" we clearly mean "removed from Spain." We do not mean, "moving north 1 tile" as you incorrectly seem to believe. I am not going to take "your word" that you will remove them after the deal is done. I have zero trust that you will follow through. I want to see them OUT before I give you anything. If you want writing, you will leave Spain by moving north to the tile I clearly specified. It's simple and it's clear. You "claim" that you are removing your warrior so there should be no issue with this arrangement. Yet you are making an issue because you want writing NOW. I'm sorry, but I'm not that trusting, especially not with the way you continue to insult myself, my ambassador, and my team. You're not going to get it now. If you remove your warrior and pay us the amount you promised, you will get Writing. If not, you won't. It's that simple. I can't make it anymore simple than that. If you choose to "go public" with this whole stupid affair know that I will also "go public" and devulge all of your bitter quotes and threats and lies and broken promises. Should you doctor our PMs to you, we will, in return, doctor your PMs to us. Should you outright lie about our role in this affair, we will lie in return. There is nothing that you can threaten us with that we cannot do in return to you. Mutually assured destruction. If you want it, we'll play that game. I'm more than willing. You know that I have people on my team who are VERY willing to do so. But if you want writing, quit sending threatening and insulting letters to my ambassador, move your warrior north a few more tiles, then trade us 60g for writing like you agreed. That is, if you really want writing. I'm starting to doubt that you do. --Togas, Ruler of Spain.

	07-02-2003 06:07									#54
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today - on MSN - Lux offered Vox contact for Writing. Writing would gave to be given first, so they could trade contact.

I assume this is acceptable? i think its fair.

	07-02-2003 06:20									#55
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As I said on the other thread, perfectly acceptable. I would suggest we jump on this ASAP.

	07-02-2003 09:41									#56
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jdjdjd -- Excellent offer. We will accept soon, but I need you to delay things a bit with them so we can wrap up the GoW writing deal. I don't want Lux getting writing very soon and handing it over to GoW. I want GoW to be forced to have to buy it from us.

So contact Lux tomorrow. Tell them that we're interested in the offer but would like it if they would give us gold + contact for writing. See if they'll agree. If so, start negotiating an amount ... whatever you think you can get, then go down. Our bottom line is writing for contact, so anything you can get in addition is a bonus.

Then begin working out the terms and the details and the fine print, etc. All of this negotiation should buy us enough time to settle with GoW and then immediately trade Writing for contact with Lux.

--Togas

	07-02-2003 13:12									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree with Togas last post, except that Writing for only contact with Vox would be a complete waste for us. We won't gain anything really interesting from a contact with Vox (I doubt they are more advanced than us), and on the other hand Writing is the most valuable tech around currently.

	07-02-2003 14:15									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

removed

Last edited by DAVOUT on 08-02-2003 at 02:26

	07-02-2003 23:29									#59
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Please move all discussion to the Diplomacy: Analysis & Discussion thread.

	08-02-2003 07:06									#60
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The following PM was sent to Panzer32

quote: I am submitting this brief message to you. I will give adaMada further instructions as well, and I anticipate he will contact you shortly. We have received your offer of Contact with Vox. We have responded with a bid of 25 gold and accepted. If this is unacceptable, please contact adaMada to negotiate. We have also received an offer from Lux Invicta for sale of contact with Vox. We are presently negotiating with them as well. Please contact adaMada with any further questions. --Togas

adaMada -- immediately contact GoW and begin negotiations with them. You are also to work with jdjdjd and send him a copy of everything you receive. Our MAX PRICE for contact with Vox is Writing, however, you are to try to get it for less. Mysticism is an option as mysticism is less valuable than Writing. I would prefer to pay with cash, though. You may disclose to them the lowest bid of Lux to see if they will go lower, UNLESS Lux specifically states in their PMs that the amount is secret. In that case, you should hint that Lux is offering to sell it to us for less.

My initial offer to GoW for Contact with Vox was 25g.

jdjdjd -- You are to work with adaMada, cc him all Lux offers. They are bidding AGAINST GoW with us for Contact with Vox. Let them know that we have also received an offer from GoW and see if that will convince them to sell it to us for less. You have permission to disclose to them the lowest bid by GoW to see if they will go lower.

--Togas