03-02-2003 01:31									#31
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You guys should be ashamed...

	03-02-2003 01:33									#32
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I thought you were all for tasteless jokes, Siro.

Where is your sporting spirit?

	03-02-2003 01:34									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Odin You know, I have a crazy idea. Lets have private companies do the earth orbit suff and let NASA concentrate on space stations, space telescopes and space exploration. Plus we should triple NASA funding. I WANT TO GO TO MARS AND LOOK FOR LIFE!!!

I dont think a private company would have a chance in hell to stay in business (as it would be difficult to make money) without massive government subsidies.

I would like to go to mars as well. And colonize the moon... numerous theoretically self-sufficient colony designs have been invented. A moon colony could even maybe be profitable. A profitable mars colony is a ways off however. The two moons of mars are thought to be very mineral rich tho, mining among other things might make it profitable in the distant future.

	03-02-2003 01:37									#34
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That story on the fragility of the tiles makes the NASA statement that they felt that the insulation impact on the shuttle's left had caused only minor damage simple INCREDIBLE.

	03-02-2003 01:45									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Ned That story on the fragility of the tiles makes the NASA statement that they felt that the insulation impact on the shuttle's left had caused only minor damage simple INCREDIBLE.

It's normal for some tiles to fall off during every flight.

	03-02-2003 01:51									#36
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quote: I thought you were all for tasteless jokes, Siro. Where is your sporting spirit?

I don't have so much a problem with these jokes being tasteless as I do their being completely f*cking retarded. What kind of standards do you have to laugh at this talentless garbage? It's about as funny as a comic with Bush pissing on the Earth with sidestrips commenting on iconographically unreleated topics

OH WAIT, HOLY F*CK THAT IS PRETTY FUNNY - KEEP EM COMING GUYS!!!

	03-02-2003 02:07									#37
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I dont think a private company would have a chance in hell to stay in business (as it would be difficult to make money) without massive government subsidies.

No, it's not that. The government intends to continue to be the #1 customer for space launch, and especially human space flight.

I was involved in the early stages of VentureStar, promoting private financing of the next generation shuttle (X-33). The US Government decided to squash plans to partially privately finance the program, because (I'm convinced) they would lose control over space launch and human space flight. It gets into a lot of far out, national security, Buck Rogers stuff.

In their view, it is better to have an incredibly expensive, bloated program that they control.

	03-02-2003 02:08									#38
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From another story on CNN,

"On the most recent, fatal flight, NASA technicians reviewing video noticed that a number of heat insulation tiles seemed to have fallen off from one of the wings during the shuttle's eight-minute race to orbit. "

I found one other story that said a single tile had fallen off on one other mission and that underlying aluminum superstructure had melted. But it was not in a critical location.

But the first thing to go were the hydrolic sensors. I understand that the hydrolic system on the shuttle uses hydrazine, which is explosive. It seems likely that something blew up an ripped a hole in the wing, causing further tiles to fall off until the wing disintegrated.

So, they knew tiles had fallen off and were gambling on re-entry.

The Columbia apparently was the only shuttle that did not have an ISS docking mechanism. Still, I am sure the astronauts could have gotten on board somehow while NASA figured out how to fix the shuttle - or better, bring it down unmanned. They just gambled and lost.

	03-02-2003 02:12									#39
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quote: "On the most recent, fatal flight, NASA technicians reviewing video noticed that a number of heat insulation tiles seemed to have fallen off from one of the wings during the shuttle's eight-minute race to orbit. "

oh gawd. I guess there is your problem.

I don't think they should gamble with people's lives like that.

	03-02-2003 02:13									#40
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Wait a sec, is standard rocket launch cheaper than via Shuttle? wtf would one use a shuttle?

Shuttle costs about $500 million per flight. Standard rockets cost much, much less than that figure, although to be fair, they aren't designed for human space flight.

	03-02-2003 02:13									#41
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As a matter of interest, which is the bigger tragedy: the shuttle crash or the 7 kids killed in the avalanche in BC?

While the shuttle is a tragedy, we should take it in perspective. The fatalities were less than many car crashes, and with all the successful shuttle flights, the shuttle program is still a great success. It would be stupid to shut down the programme for this one accident (even if only temporarily).

	03-02-2003 02:17									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel h gawd. I guess there is your problem. I don't think they should gamble with people's lives like that.

Mind telling us what else they can do?

The Columbia can't dock, it has a limited supply of fuel and food and the like...

The only way to get out is to get back down to earth.

	03-02-2003 02:18									#43
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...and the astronauts died living their dreams. Those kids died in a confusing, retarded time of life. They didn't marry, nor have children - probably hadn't fallen in love.

Wasn't there another magical 7 death disaster somewhere?

	03-02-2003 02:19									#44
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quote: And colonize the moon... numerous theoretically self-sufficient colony designs have been invented.

-Kramerman

Key word here is 'theoretical.'

Self-sufficient is a pretty big claim, I could see colonies supplied with food and water from earth, but not self-sufficient.

We don't even know how to make a biodome here on Earth.

	03-02-2003 02:20									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh As a matter of interest, which is the bigger tragedy: the shuttle crash or the 7 kids killed in the avalanche in BC? While the shuttle is a tragedy, we should take it in perspective. The fatalities were less than many car crashes, and with all the successful shuttle flights, the shuttle program is still a great success. It would be stupid to shut down the programme for this one accident (even if only temporarily).

IMO, the avalanche in BC was a bigger tragedy, while the shuttle crash is far more important to the world.

The 7 kids in BC were only in 10th grade, were on a school trip, were in an area popular with tourists and certainly not offlimits, and cross-country skiing. Half of the kids who left on that trip won't ever come back. They didn't accept the risks like the astronauts did, and these kids were so much younger. To me, that's a greater tragedy.

But the shuttle accident, aside from the loss of the people on board, is important because it puts into question NASA's future...

	03-02-2003 02:21									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel oh gawd. I guess there is your problem. I don't think they should gamble with people's lives like that.

Yeah, Azazel, this looks just like gamble doesn't it? The very same thing happened with the Challenger. Someone at NASA gambled - and lost.

	03-02-2003 02:23									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Mind telling us what else they can do? The Columbia can't dock, it has a limited supply of fuel and food and the like... The only way to get out is to get back down to earth.

Asher, we are going to find out in the next several weeks or months that they probably did have alternatives. I simply do not accept the proposition that they could not have space walked to the ISS if necessary.

	03-02-2003 02:45									#48
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The problem may have been that the shuttle could not have reached the ISS.

	03-02-2003 02:45									#49
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quote: One of the reasons is science missions just like on this one. You cant make them on an unmanned rocket.

Most of the science done onboard is researching the effects of lack of gravity.

well, it's not like there is no gravity in orbit. There is however, Weightlessness. and that can be simulated on the surface as well.

I think we should decide to make a move towards space exploration. Without that, it's just a waste of money.

	03-02-2003 02:48									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Most of the science done onboard is researching the effects of lack of gravity. well, it's not like there is no gravity in orbit. There is however, Weightlessness. and that can be simulated on the surface as well. I think we should decide to make a move towards space exploration. Without that, it's just a waste of money.

...and the weightlessness can be simulated for how long?

	03-02-2003 03:01									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka ...and the astronauts died living their dreams. Those kids died in a confusing, retarded time of life. They didn't marry, nor have children - probably hadn't fallen in love. Wasn't there another magical 7 death disaster somewhere?

Well The astronauts death was occupational hazard, compared to bunch of kids who died under avalanche (i dont know much about this one, all i know is that they died under avalanche) is completely misfortune.

While soldiers who die during war is more revered and respected than normal civilian death, its expected because its an occupational hazard. But the world doesnt work that way. 7 people dying in a shuttle that goes down like comet crash is more interesting than a boring avalanche. So I guess astronaut one would be more of a shocker.

Is the new quote based on Franz's Metamorphosis? I thoguht he turned into a **** roach or something err... forgot.

EDIT: WTF? I cant type a c0ckroach without being censored by a filter? that blows... what about...

c0cka doo roo doo~
c0cking a gun
c0ck full o' nuts?

	03-02-2003 03:01									#52
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. I've confused it with something else.

OMG my thoughts are intermingling...

Nevermind...

	03-02-2003 03:51									#53
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I dont think a private company would have a chance in hell to stay in business (as it would be difficult to make money) without massive government subsidies. No, it's not that. The government intends to continue to be the #1 customer for space launch, and especially human space flight. I was involved in the early stages of VentureStar, promoting private financing of the next generation shuttle (X-33). The US Government decided to squash plans to partially privately finance the program, because (I'm convinced) they would lose control over space launch and human space flight. It gets into a lot of far out, national security, Buck Rogers stuff. In their view, it is better to have an incredibly expensive, bloated program that they control.

EXACTLY.

	03-02-2003 03:57									#54
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NASA says that rising temoeratures on the left side of the Columbia caused additional drag which caused the computer to adjust the ailerons to shift Columbia to the right.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/...mbia/index.html

	03-02-2003 04:15									#55
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quote: Mind telling us what else they can do? The Columbia can't dock, it has a limited supply of fuel and food and the like... The only way to get out is to get back down to earth.

rrrriiighht, so they cannot just walk from one space craft to the other? true, I am not sure they were trained for that, But it sure beats the hell of trying to enter the atmosphere with a damaged shield.

I'll guess the inquiry's results will show am I right.

	03-02-2003 04:22									#56
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I don't think that they 'took a chance' I think that they genuinly believed that nothing was wrong with the Columbia.

	03-02-2003 04:24									#57
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Hindsight is 20/20.

The shuttles usually land with damaged and missing tiles, they fall off during liftoff all the time.

Of course it's a possibility that one too many went missing, but it's REALLY hard to accurately guage that kind of thing when they're up in space, and at the time they didn't think it was serious.

Doesn't the ISS also have limited oxygen supplies/generators that can only support X many people? Could the thing support *7* additional people if they somehow spacewalked in? Did the shuttle have nearly enough fuel to manuever to get anywhere near the ISS? It's not space is a small area and they could go next door and hop on the ISS...

We don't know much of anything, I think it's stupid as hell for people who don't know anything to waste their time and bandwidth speculating on what went on, and even preemptively blaming NASA because you know something has gone wrong.

	03-02-2003 04:30									#58
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Columbia couldn't get up to the ISS; it was too heavy. That's why there was never a docking attachment installed.

	03-02-2003 04:39									#59
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that puts things in a different perspective. You know this for a fact, andrew?

	03-02-2003 05:54									#60
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NASA has found the remains of all of the crewmembers. I wonder how they figured that out?