03-02-2003 06:09									#61
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DNA tests?

	03-02-2003 06:16									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Solver (So much easier to follow this thread now )

For now. Just wait a day or two.

	03-02-2003 06:24									#63
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Serb: Yep, as I see it, the Shuttle will be off line for a half year or so. Then we'll restart it and limp through on the program for another decade or so.

Which probably means the space station will be empty as of June. What a shame! I really hope the Russian space program can step in and pick up the slack while the American fleet is grounded.

	03-02-2003 06:31									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Plus we should triple NASA funding. I WANT TO GO TO MARS AND LOOK FOR LIFE!!!

Me too! Better yet, I want us to build a colony there. There's some speculation that if we can thaw out the C02 that's frozen in the soil, we can raise the surface temperature to something that's livable. Maybe in the future, we can move all our dirty manufacturing processes there, and the emissions can actually do some good.

	03-02-2003 06:37									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman I dont think a private company would have a chance in hell to stay in business (as it would be difficult to make money) without massive government subsidies.

This year will see the first private launch of a payload to the moon. And space tourism is most definitely an option. And it shouldn't be to long before some corporation gets the bright idea that there's money to be made salvaging satellites.

Private launches into space aren't that far off!

	03-02-2003 06:43									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh It would be stupid to shut down the programme for this one accident (even if only temporarily).

That's part of the tragedy IMO. One of the first things I thought of when I heard about what happened was: "I hope this doesn't jeopardise the space program!"

	03-02-2003 06:46									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel that puts things in a different perspective. You know this for a fact, andrew?

It was in the paper this morning, so I don't have a link for you.

	03-02-2003 07:50									#68
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The remains haven't been identified yet; all I hope is that the explosive decompression of the crew cabin via breach knocked them out instantly ... thus they never knew what came next.

Gatekeeper

	03-02-2003 08:39									#69
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Reminds me of Challenger. I was told yesterday that a child gave the teacher on board an apple, and all they found in the remains was an apple.

	03-02-2003 09:53									#70
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As for the remains, I'm guessing they might have found something with their names on them.

In my opinion space is more important than Iraq. Hopefully NASA can get past this soon and keep reaching for the stars.

	03-02-2003 10:20									#71
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To backers of the Buran, I quote the Russian Space Agency as to the payload capacity of the Buran


"The BURAN orbiter is able to put up to 30 tons into Space and to return up to 20 tons of payload to the Earth."

	03-02-2003 10:24									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew1999 Columbia couldn't get up to the ISS; it was too heavy. That's why there was never a docking attachment installed.

What are you talking about, The Shuttle has been used for crew replacement since the inception of the ISS, and the station was designed around the use of the STS and Progress delivery systems.

	03-02-2003 10:27									#73
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CNN just ended its broadcast of its coverage of the Columbia disaster with President Reagan's address to the nation following Challenger. That speach was moving and beautiful. As it went on, I must admit, I began to weep uncontrollably.

CNN broadcast condollences by Shroeder and by Chirac. Thank you, from one American. I and we appreciated it.

	03-02-2003 13:05									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Andrew1999 Columbia couldn't get up to the ISS; it was too heavy. That's why there was never a docking attachment installed.

hi ,

huh , thats not what nasa's site says , .....

have a nice day

	03-02-2003 13:43									#75
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What gets me are all the strange coincidences. Very weird. This was Feb1, but late Jan has not been a good week for NASA. There are many other weird coincidences as well.

	03-02-2003 15:08									#76
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The shuttle was on a completely different flight path to the space station, not surprisingly since they were not intended to dock. There was no way that they could have shifted their path to intercept the station...in any of these situations the orbit achieved is largely determined at launch, and only very minor manoeuvres can be conducted after that.

2 losses out of 107 shuttle missions?
First loss of any manned NASA craft on reentry?

Pretty good track record if you ask me.

	03-02-2003 15:28									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper The remains haven't been identified yet; all I hope is that the explosive decompression of the crew cabin via breach knocked them out instantly ... thus they never knew what came next. Gatekeeper

According to John Glenn, they would have been 'suited up' (my term) prior to re-entry, in case there was a decompression of the cabin.

	03-02-2003 15:42									#78
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The destruction of the shuttle was shocking news when I heard about it.
Not good at all.

	03-02-2003 16:19									#79
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While I think about it...I'm not sure they could have had a look to see what the damage was should it be found out that a chunk was knocked off at launch. Columbia didn't take up any EVA stuff from what I've seen for this mission...no robot arm (the lab took up all the cargo space). In addition even with this stuff it seems you simply can't get underneath for a good look...and even if you did, there was no way to do a repair (no spares carried), and if there were you're more likely to damage good tiles and the repair would not be nice and smooth, resulting in further reentry problems.

	03-02-2003 16:24									#80
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Could they have sent another shuttle up to get them, or a couple of Soyuz capsules

	03-02-2003 16:39									#81
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Tolls: The crew weren't even told of the damage. There were no outside inspections of the damage, all this despite there was knowledge at ground control that there are damaged tiles.

I suspect something went terribly wrong, or perhase was terribly wrong for a period of time, seeing news of a number of officials being fired after voicing concern for safety on the Shuttle missions, about a year ago, IIRC.

Another quit in protest because of what he called "a policy to shut mouthes".

	03-02-2003 16:39									#82
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Could they have sent another shuttle up to get them, or a couple of Soyuz capsules

I agree. A more detail look at the damage could have been possible from orbit. If even one EVA suit were available, even sent up from Russia with food supplies for the STS and ISS crews, then someone could have had a look (this past weekend saw the Russians sending up a supply rocket weeks ahead of schedule in wake of the disaster). If it were discovered that there was "damage of concern" then both crews could have remained on the station until another Soyuz could be sent to retrieve them. The Columbia could be left in orbit to maintain the ISS for the time being until a decision was made about what to do with it. Even if that meant scrapping the Columbia.

People really dropped the ball on this. Things could have been done to prevent this disaster. It would have been difficult and expensive...but it wouldn't have cost us 7 astronauts.

	03-02-2003 16:48									#83
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I find this thought inconceivable: Are there really STS missions where they go up WITH NO EVA CAPABILITY? Not so much as a single EVA suit? That seems to me contrary to the idea of space exploration.


Anyway, it's almost 4 in the morning and I've got class early in the afternoon, so g'night all.

	03-02-2003 16:53									#84
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Atlantis(?) was due for a March launch, but I'm not sure they could have got it up there in time, even if a shuttle to shuttle evacuation could have been achieved. In any case, they clearly didn't think they were badly damaged...there's nothing to indicate they were concerned (either up there or down here) about launch damage to the left wing.

	03-02-2003 16:57									#85
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But they didn't even inspect it from orbit, by a telescope of whatever.

It seems as if they were rather careless.

	03-02-2003 17:17									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Tolls Atlantis(?) was due for a March launch, but I'm not sure they could have got it up there in time, even if a shuttle to shuttle evacuation could have been achieved. In any case, they clearly didn't think they were badly damaged...there's nothing to indicate they were concerned (either up there or down here) about launch damage to the left wing.

hi ,

during the coldwar they could do an emergency launch under 96 hours , but if that still is in place today , ....

nasa brought forth the point a couple years ago inwhere they mentioned that its dangerous because of maybe a lack of inspection and replacements of damaged parts , ....

there used to be a type or rocket on standby with food and oxygen but is that still the case today , .... no-one knows for sure , ....

the initial damage was never considered a danger what so ever , ....

we can only speculate right now as to what happend , maybe we shall never know , but is a bit of luck that the craft came down over the US , imagine trying to find answers when it would have hit the sea or an other country , ....

from today on they shall try to put it back together in the B-52 usaf base of Barksdale , LA , ....

similar like flight 500 from twa

have a nice day

	03-02-2003 17:18									#87
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What would you use?
Which telescope?

I'm not sure anything would have been at the right trajectory to get a decent look.

Even with EVA capability you could not have got under the shuttle to check. There are no handholds. But the mission was not about EVA, it was about zero-g work using the lab installed in the bay, consequently EVA suits were not necessary.

The reason the ground weren't telling them up there is because this has happened before (Atlantis again last year) and is not normally a problem. In any case, what could they have done?

DRoseDARs:
Columbia could NOT have got to the ISS...no way...they were on a completely different course.

	03-02-2003 17:31									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Tolls What would you use? Which telescope? I'm not sure anything would have been at the right trajectory to get a decent look. Even with EVA capability you could not have got under the shuttle to check. There are no handholds. But the mission was not about EVA, it was about zero-g work using the lab installed in the bay, consequently EVA suits were not necessary. The reason the ground weren't telling them up there is because this has happened before (Atlantis again last year) and is not normally a problem. In any case, what could they have done? DRoseDARs: Columbia could NOT have got to the ISS...no way...they were on a completely different course.

hi ,

solution ; a space robot or an individual walk with safe line , ......

have a nice day

	03-02-2003 17:53									#89
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Those are solutions, maybe, but they are not standard equipment...and I'm not sure they ever will be since, again, there is nothing you can do if you do find a problem. You are going to cause more damage attempting to replace tiles than you are repairing in all but the most catastrophic cases.

I've just done some checking on resupply. Columbia had already used up its supplies, it had the extended supply package so it could stay up over a fortnight, so we wouldn't expect more than a couple more days before having to come back to earth. Atlantis would not have been able to get there...the Progress could have got there, but Columbia does not have a docking port. Even the docking port on the other two shuttles would not have helped, as they are quite different to the facility on the Progress.

Edit: Make that possibly to 7 days at a real push...still no Atlantis, though.

Last edited by Tolls on 03-02-2003 at 18:09

	03-02-2003 18:38									#90
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It seems like very bad planning indeed if they coudn't send up any sort of rescue vehicle before supplies ran out.

As for the damage to the wing: presumably if insulation fell off the tank and hit the wing, it would have hit the leading edge of the wing.

How can there be "minor" damage to the leading edge of a wing coated with fragile tiles that has to withstand flight at 25 times the speed of sound?

Looks like several dropped balls here.

Even if the problem turns out to be something else entirely: NASA should definitely make sure that EVA equipment (incuding the Manned Maneuvering Unit) are carried as standard equipment on all flights, that ALL astronauts on manned spacecraft have a means of transferring to either the ISS or another spacecraft, and that a rescue vehicle of some sort is always available for launch.

With only 3 shuttles left, that will be difficult to arrange.