03-02-2003 22:03									#31
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He is almost right.

The manned space programme s a waste of money. NASA is not though, since there are lots of great unmanned research projects which NASA is doing.

The manned stuff is just public relations.

Oh, and by the way, the 'spin-off' argument is bullshit. You would get the same amount of spin-offs by spending the same amount of money researching something useful on the ground. They might not be the same spin-offs, so you might have a cure for cancer rather than a cell-phone, but so what?

	03-02-2003 22:05									#32
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quote: PS I can't believe I'm actually responding to your drivel. I'm certainly glad that your views represent an extreme minority.

Sorry to dissapoint you but these questions are being asked by others more and more who can do something about it.
I just post on the boards.

I have not started writing to my congressman, yet


Yall better come up with some better reasons than what your telling me here

	03-02-2003 22:12									#33
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75 technologies and spin offs to private sector and counting per Eli's link.

	03-02-2003 22:13									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Yall better come up with some better reasons than what your telling me here

Knowledge! That's the only reason we need.

	03-02-2003 22:14									#35
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For context, in '03...

NASA will spend $14.3 billion
NSF (general science & engineering) will spend $4.9 billion
NIH (human health) will spend $27.3 billion

NIH spending doubled over the last 5 years.

	03-02-2003 22:17									#36
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No, no...Doc's got a good point.

It really IS a waste of time.

And by extension (gotta keep consistency of logic here), so is the whole of modern society.

The expeditions of Drake, Magellen, and Columbus were every bit as dangerous (and probably moreso) than space exploration, but yeah....they were a waste of time too. Who cares whether the world is round or flat, after all? It's no big deal.

Which means that the discovery and founding of America, and every invention that has sprung from this country....all a total waste of effort.

What were they thinking?

-=Vel=-

	03-02-2003 22:17									#37
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And defense will be $300 billion.

Have some mother-f*cking perspective, people.

	03-02-2003 22:18									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Sorry to dissapoint you but these questions are being asked by others more and more who can do something about it.

And they're the same sort of questions people asked when they said man would never fly in the air. And obviously no one's listening to them if even Bush is pushing for an increase in NASA's budget. Good thing too, if mankind as a whole had the same attitude as yours, we'd still be throwing sticks at our supper.

	03-02-2003 22:18									#39
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$45bn in basic & applied research

What percentage of overall budget does this constitute?

	03-02-2003 22:20									#40
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This argument is absurd...

Why not argue that too much money is spent on marine biology, environmental sciences, geology, medicine, botany... or any science in general?

Why not debate that early exploration of the seas was a waste of money? Everything those early exlporer did was worthless, and that the Dutch, Germans, English, Spaniards, and Portugese were just wasting their money!

Why even bother to try and understand the world, galaxy, or universe we live in? Why don't we just sit on our hands, or better yet our thumbs, and do nothing? Why bother trying make the world a better place, and why bother attempting to increase the comforts of life?

Silly. Space exploration and the experiments that are performed up there in the name of medicine and technology (which are hone towards space exploration) is not something that will go in vain. Maybe one day we learn better ways to harness the power of the atom, the sun, or even planetary graviational effects. One day we may actually be able to travel the stars and take advantage of the rich, rare elements that lie within. One day we may be actually able to live on another planet, grow food their, and complain about our inability to maintain a stable envornment without terraforming it... Now that will be kewl.

Yet, to support the intellect of which this thread was started: Ya know, if we reach warp 1 the Vulcans will come down and impart their knowledge with us...

	03-02-2003 22:22									#41
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara And defense will be $300 billion. Have some mother-f*cking perspective, people.

Bush is actually proposing a defense budget of $500 billion at the moment.

	03-02-2003 22:23									#42
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$791 Billion total discretionary, so about 6%.

Bush is actually proposing a defense budget of $500 billion at the moment.

No he isn't.

	03-02-2003 22:24									#43
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quote: Knowledge! That's the only reason we need.

WHAT knowledge?????

this is the best you can come up with?

Hey, I am not making fun of you or trying to belittel you.
You gotta do better than this


You know, I have not seen one reason worthwhile yet for continuing NASA.

	03-02-2003 22:26									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Yall better come up with some better reasons than what your telling me here

Cause we want to. We want manned exploration, cause
we're men, not robots.

Humandkind does a lot of things that are expensive and
unprofitable. Ballet, Opera, Paintings-Art, Health care,
the world's entire military.

Logically, You should cut these first

Good luck

	03-02-2003 22:27									#45
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Doc - Were the voyages of Drake, Magellen, Columbus, and their contemporaries also a waste of time, in your opinion?

-=Vel=-
(waiting with baited breath for the answer)

	03-02-2003 22:29									#46
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Thanks Dan,

6% does seem a tad high but if research done correctly may be a worthwhile future investment.

The fuel cell funding I noticed was not included in your previous numbers either so it is a tad bit higher still.

	03-02-2003 22:30									#47
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quote: Yet, to support the intellect of which this thread was started: Ya know, if we reach warp 1 the Vulcans will come down and impart their knowledge with us...

Eh...ehh..ehh..Star Trek

	03-02-2003 22:31									#48
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quote: Originally posted by DanS $791 Billion total discretionary, so about 6%. Bush is actually proposing a defense budget of $500 billion at the moment. No he isn't.

Ok, I'm off base on that one, it's $379 billion. Which means it's almost half of the entire budget according to your figures. Now there's a good example of waste! Spend billions in order to make things that blow up.

	03-02-2003 22:32									#49
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A lot of modern medical equipment is based on equipment used to monitor austronauts. Lives are being saved because of manned space flight.

NASA needs an advertizing budget so that it can tell idjits like Docfeelgood the benefits of manned space flight.

	03-02-2003 22:32									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood You know, I have not seen one reason worthwhile yet for continuing NASA.

That's your problem. It's pretty obvious to most intelligent people.

	03-02-2003 22:33									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Japher This argument is absurd... Why not argue that too much money is spent on marine biology, environmental sciences, geology, medicine, botany... or any science in general?

So you would in no way prioritise research by deciding which research areas deserve the most funding?

Absurd indeed....

	03-02-2003 22:33									#52
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An example of knowledge you get:

quote: Research on the Space Shuttle and the Russian space station Mir has indicated that protein crystals grown in microgravity can yield substantially better structural information, and disease-treating drugs are designed from protein structure data. Determining protein structure is the key to the design and development of effective drugs for the more than 100,000 different proteins important to the human body's everyday functions and the fighting of disease. By understanding how a protein's structure affects its function, a drug can be created to "fit" into a protein's active site—similar to inserting a key into a lock—to disable the protein's function. This approach promises to help produce superior drugs for a wide range of conditions, and the ISS could become one of the world's premier sources for critical data on the protein structures needed for this new method of drug development. ISS facilities will enable investigators to analyze crystals on orbit, decreasing the cost and increasing the quality of research. In addition, the station will be used to study and understand the physics involved in protein crystal growth, helping overcome the difficulties that currently limit much of this research on Earth.

http://nctn.hq.nasa.gov/innovation/...ion_75/ftre.htm

Being a molecular biologist I can't really agree this is wasted money

	03-02-2003 22:35									#53
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quote: Doc - Were the voyages of Drake, Magellen, Columbus, and their contemporaries also a waste of time, in your opinion?

sorry, but to me we are talkin apples and oranges.


I think you are just poking fun at me and trying to insult my intellegence.

	03-02-2003 22:36									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx No, no...Doc's got a good point. It really IS a waste of time. And by extension (gotta keep consistency of logic here), so is the whole of modern society. The expeditions of Drake, Magellen, and Columbus were every bit as dangerous (and probably moreso) than space exploration, but yeah....they were a waste of time too. Who cares whether the world is round or flat, after all? It's no big deal. Which means that the discovery and founding of America, and every invention that has sprung from this country....all a total waste of effort. What were they thinking? -=Vel=-

They all had a goal! Columbus and Magellan were trying to find new trade routes, and Drake was trying to pillage them. NASA hasn't had a goal since the moon landings. They might claim they're gathering information a Mars expedition, but there's not one on the calendar any time in the next 20 years.

Remeber the Simpsons episode? "Oh no! Now we may never know if ants can be trained to sort tiny screws in space!" That's the kind of science we're doing. We're not sailing to America or crossing the Pacific. We're sailing around in circles 10 miles out of Lisbon, trying to pretend we're going somewhere. I'd support a real program of space exploration and colonization, but I've never seen one during my lifetime.

	03-02-2003 22:36									#55
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I'd be for manned space flight even if no applied science resulted (which it does, in droves). Humans explore, it's in our genetic code. Space exploration is part of the growth and evolution of humanity. Neanderthals just don't get it.

	03-02-2003 22:36									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood I think you are just poking fun at me and trying to insult my intellegence.

No, you're doing a fine job of that all on your own!

	03-02-2003 22:38									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood I think you are just . . . to insult my intellegence.

Believe me, there's no way our opinion of your intelligence could go down any further.

	03-02-2003 22:38									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid Being a molecular biologist I can't really agree this is wasted money

And you don't think molecular biology could have come up with something just as worthwhile if they had been given just 10% of the NASA manned flight budget?

If they couldn't it's time to sack the molecular biologists....

	03-02-2003 22:39									#59
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quote: Being a molecular biologist I can't really agree this is wasted money

Thats very good but...
.. why do we have to spend so much money and waste resorces to have man do this reaserch?

Could it be done cheaper?
Could it be done without a cost to human life?
Is this reaserch worth the ultimit cost of human life?










think!

	03-02-2003 22:40									#60
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Buncha friggan neaderthals.