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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
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DP, see below.
Last edited by chegitz guevara on 04-02-2003 at 00:54
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:25
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Okay Doc....after a breather, I'm ready to continue. So far, you've essentially posed three different-but-related positions:
#1) NASA is a big waste of money
#2) Manned space exploration is a waste of time and money
#3) Is space the playground of the USA, or is it (and the benefits of its exploration) for all of mankind.
****
My responses to these three different-but-related things would be as follows:
1) - NASA may seem like a big waste of money TO YOU, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But it is just that....an opinion. The fact is that NASA's dedication to the exploration of space has brought about numerous advances that have saved untold numbers of lives. It has also brought about numerous more "frivilous" advances, but let's focus on the ones that save lives, since you're fond of bringing starving children into the equation.
Among these inventions are:
GPS - As has been pointed out, it's the backbone of our modern military, but lately, civilian applications have become more and more commonplace. There's no telling how many lives this technology has saved us both in the field, and indirectly (rapid location of say....a distressed ship on the high seas may mean the difference between all hands lost and saving the entire crew).
Cell Phones - Yep...even the lowly cell phone (and all its sister technologies) have helped save lives, because it enables far more rapid communication at the scene of accidents (you witness a nasty car wreck, pick up the cell phone rather than frantically searching for a payphone, and voila....you mighta just saved a life! Good job!
Miniturization - Weight constraints are always a problem in space, so the natural trend was toward making things smaller. As has been pointed out, this led to the development of the Personal Computer. PC's help save lives every day, by enabling doctors to store vast amounts of data on their patients, and retrieve that data very quickly. Modern medicine owes much of its technology to the space program, in one form or another. And the proof that it's worth it? People are living longer, healthier lives than ever before.
Biotech - could not have come about if not for the rise of computers (which, in turn, were brought forth, thanks in no small part to the folks of NASA), because decoding the human genome is not something you can do with an abacus. This field is in its earliest stages, and stands poised to change almost everything about medicine as we know it.
So....if you say that NASA's existence is a waste of money, then you must concede that all technologies we enjoy today as a result (direct or indirect) of their research, are also a waste of money.
Personally, I do not believe that anyone who makes use of and enjoys these modern wonders can have that opinion, but...that's your bag.
To the second point....the point about manned exploration of space being pointless, I refer you back to Magellen, Columbus, and their contemporaries.
If manned exploration of space is indeed pointless, then so was manned exploration of the vast oceans. The proper course of action would have been to not tackle these vastly challenging natural wonders until there was some means to do so remotely, and therefore not risk human life in the process....
Want a more modern example? How about the invention of flight? Dreadfully dangerous business with no practical applications as it was being developed....and yet, look at the state of the industry today....people transported to all points of the globe, quickly and safely. Amazing. But of course, in the world according to Doc, they're fools. The proper thing to do would have been to wait until such far fetched notions of flight could have been tested remotely, posing no risk to those first bold pioneers.
And if you believe that, then there's not much of anything that anyone can say to you that'll change your mind, but the simple truth is that we....humanity....is better off for the exploration.
And to the last: Is space the playground of America, or does its exploration stand to benefit all of mankind?
So far as I know, there has been no effort by the United States to discourage any large, industrialized nation from going into space.
They are certainly free to try.
And whomever gets there first, will no doubt, reap the biggest benefits (witness the Spanish in Central America, and their quest for gold).
And like the earlier explorers, the benefits of the knowledge gained....yes, that benefits us all.
Of course, you prolly still don't agree. 
-=Vel=-
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:25
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Yep...I will grant you that there is a possibility that some, and perhaps even all of these inventions could have come about via other means.
But they did not.
In my post, I already gave some examples of technology that has grown out of our exploration of space that has, in fact, saved lives. Of course, that's not enough, is it?
Again, yes...the possibility exists that this technology could have been invented by others, had NASA not existed....but NASA did and does exist, and their work HAS benefited us all.
But that's still not enough, is it?
I'm not being hostile toward you, I am merely pointing out that the stuff you're hell-bent on belittling and referring to as a waste of time, has, in fact, and continues to be beneficial to us all.
And if NASA had not had a hand in it...what then? I contend that you would be writing these posts, railing against whomever DID help bring these inventions about. Same $hit, different day, as it were.
-=Vel=-
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Static Universe
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quote:
Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba
I agree that NASA needs more specific goals. |
They're helping build an international space station that will prove the feasibility of a lunar or Martian colony. it will also be the launching point for future lunar or Mars trips. Just because it isn't dramatic doesn't mean they don't have a mission.
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Demerzel
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the astronauts knew the risks and still chose to do it - don't disrepect their memories by calling their choice in life a waste.
Doc, you seem unprepared to accept any points being put to you - what's the point in creating a discussion thread if you spend 8 pages just ignoring any alternative views as irrelevent and not valid?
NASA has improved our way of life in many ways - just like with the military new technology filters down to us. The ISS & space exploration is something that should be funded more not less, exploring has benefitted mankind - sticking our head in the sand will not.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:25
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Doc,
Maybe NASA wastes some money (it is, after all, run by the government). But what they waste pales in comparison to what the military wastes, and at least NASA is out there, trying to learn things about the universe. That's a lot nobler than blowing things up, in my mind. Plus, as has been pointed out (and ignored by you, or called BS), the space program has resulted in a lot of R&D work that may not have otherwise happened.
I, for one, consider my life enriched by the info brought back by the Gallileo mission and the Hubble Space Telescope. I consider things like that worth my tax dollars. That's counting the screwup with Hubble's mirror.
The fact is that NASA is doing its best to lay the groundwork for much bigger goals. There are a awful lot of technical problems that have to be overcome before we can even send a manned mission to Mars. The manned space program, which includes our part of the ISS, is helping us figure that stuff out.
I don't understand why people assume that NASA isn't doing anything just because we aren't charging pell-mell for Mars. Every mission is packed with experiments and/or work on the ISS. We have soooo much to learn.
I do agree on the asteroid-avoidance issue. That is something which is critically underfunded.
-Arrian
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Static Universe
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quote:
Originally posted by Docfeelgood
Speculation or fact?
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Absolute fact.
http://www.spacelabs.com/company/about.html
quote:
In the mid-1960s Spacelabs began making the transition from monitoring in space to monitoring in hospitals. In 1968 Spacelabs introduced its first systems for ICU and CCU monitoring. During the late 1960s and early 1970s significant technological advances were made in monitoring systems, culminating in 1974 with Alpha -- the first monitoring system to incorporate microprocessor technology. Alpha was revolutionary in several ways -- it was the first monitor to incorporate digital technology, it was the first to communicate on a data bus (to allow systems communications) and it was the first modular monitor. Following its introduction, Spacelabs added the first annotating recorder, trend data, autozero pressures and an exclusive pacer recognition program to Alpha. |
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04-02-2003 00:18
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