03-02-2003 22:43									#61
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quote: Believe me, there's no way our opinion of your intelligence could go down any further.

quote: No, you're doing a fine job of that all on your own!

I make some valid points and you poke fun of me and insult me?


Thats very mature and an inteligent thing to do guys


Care to show us how smart you can be some more?



think!

	03-02-2003 22:43									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh And you don't think molecular biology could have come up with something just as worthwhile if they had been given just 10% of the NASA manned flight budget? If they couldn't it's time to sack the molecular biologists....

Did you not read the quote he included? That type of research can only be done in space!

	03-02-2003 22:44									#63
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Being a molecular biologist I can't really agree this is wasted money

Worth $4 billion per annum?

	03-02-2003 22:44									#64
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Rogan Josh and Docfeelgood:
We never got that NASA money to do our research
But sure, if we could do the same experiments on the ground, so much better. However, currently this is the best opportunity we have, until the ISS research shows us new ways to study protein structure on the ground

	03-02-2003 22:47									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood I make some valid points and you poke fun of me and insult me?

You're not making an valid points at all. Your's is the same type of reasoning that saw Galileo's findings that we are not the center of the universe ridiculed by society. Or Columbus's assertion that the world is round. They thought he was a fool then too. I guess he proved them wrong!

	03-02-2003 22:48									#66
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Doc....it is not apples to oranges....it only appears so because you have the advantage of the historical outcomes of those explorations as a lens to look through.

The fact is that for their day, those explorers were performing the same essential function that our astronauts are performing today.

Did those "waste of time" explorations lead to anything that might be considered worthwhile?

You bet they did! TONS of stuff, and NONE of it could possibly have been predicted without going ahead and doing it.

As has been pointed out, we're "not doing much" up in space right now, and there's a good reason for that!

The first boats ever built didn't make trans-atlantic crossings....instead, the explored the harbor and went round and 'round in circles "pretending they were going somewhere" so that when bigger, better boats came along, they'd have the know-how to MAKE that trans-atlantic voyage.

The fundamental problem with your viewpoint, Doc, is that you seem to be approaching NASA's mission with blinders on.

You're taking such a narrow, short-sighted view, that no! From that perspective, it makes no sense at all!

But that's not the correct perspective.

-=Vel=-

	03-02-2003 22:50									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid An example of knowledge you get: http://nctn.hq.nasa.gov/innovation/...ion_75/ftre.htm Being a molecular biologist I can't really agree this is wasted money

That's a nice article, but it's from 1999. Let's get a more recent update:

quote: The station has been scaled down from its original size. In 2001, with NASA facing a $5-billion cost overrun, agency leaders decided not to add a seven-person lifeboat and a U.S.-built dormitory module that would have allowed seven astronauts to live aboard the station. Instead, the station can support a crew of three — about the bare minimum for upkeep and domestic chores. Astronauts have started to complain that they are housekeepers, not scientists. The schedule leaves a three-person crew working nearly all of the time with just 10 hours a week for experiments. In addition, construction cost overruns have eaten into the science budget, leading many scientists to say the station no longer serves its original purpose.

	03-02-2003 22:50									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood I make some valid points

You haven't made a valid point yet.

	03-02-2003 22:51									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Did you not read the quote he included? That type of research can only be done in space!

The research doesn't have to even be on the same subject. The question is, can the money used for manned space flight be more constructively spent on other ground based (or non-manned space based) research?

The answer is overwhelmingly 'yes!' and anyone who doesn't think so is, as Che would put it, an idjit.

	03-02-2003 22:53									#70
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quote: Rogan Josh and Docfeelgood: We never got that NASA money to do our research But sure, if we could do the same experiments on the ground, so much better. However, currently this is the best opportunity we have, until the ISS research shows us new ways to study protein structure on the ground :

Try explaining this to a hungery kid in a third world country.

Think they give a rats azz about Star Trek and space exploration when food is on there mind?


Feed em and then educate them they just might tho.



think!

	03-02-2003 22:57									#71
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NASA $14.3 billion
Defence $300 billion

Yet neanderthal boy is complaining about the one that actually contributes to the world. Typical reactionary BS.

	03-02-2003 22:57									#72
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I don't think NASA is a waste. Not at all. It expands human knowledge - a noble endeavor, if I've ever seen one. Sure, the benifits of that new knowledge may not be immediately obvious, but what we've done so far is just a few baby steps toward the stars.

NASA is one of the few things I'm happy to pay taxes for.

-Arrian

	03-02-2003 22:58									#73
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Ok, this isn't gonna happen too often, so savor it:

Well said, Che.

-Arrian

	03-02-2003 22:59									#74
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quote: You're not making an valid points at all. Your's is the same type of reasoning that saw Galileo's findings that we are not the center of the universe ridiculed by society. Or Columbus's assertion that the world is round. They thought he was a fool then too. I guess he proved them wrong!

quote: Doc....it is not apples to oranges....it only appears so because you have the advantage of the historical outcomes of those explorations as a lens to look through. The fact is that for their day, those explorers were performing the same essential function that our astronauts are performing today. Did those "waste of time" explorations lead to anything that might be considered worthwhile? You bet they did! TONS of stuff, and NONE of it could possibly have been predicted without going ahead and doing it. As has been pointed out, we're "not doing much" up in space right now, and there's a good reason for that! The first boats ever built didn't make trans-atlantic crossings....instead, the explored the harbor and went round and 'round in circles "pretending they were going somewhere" so that when bigger, better boats came along, they'd have the know-how to MAKE that trans-atlantic voyage. The fundamental problem with your viewpoint, Doc, is that you seem to be approaching NASA's mission with blinders on. You're taking such a narrow, short-sighted view, that no! From that perspective, it makes no sense at all! But that's not the correct perspective.

Well, thats a great history lesson guys



What the heck does this have to do with making NASA cost effective

	03-02-2003 23:00									#75
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Andrew1999: That sucks, but it also shows the need for increased spending
Seriously though, the ISS is supposed to be international, meaning that everyone involved, not only NASA, should do their part. If I understand things correctly, one reason they have problems now is that some parts are lagging behind in their duties?

	03-02-2003 23:02									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood What the heck does this have to do with making NASA cost effective

Try explaining this to a hungry kid in a third world country.

Think they give a rats azz about NASA being cost effective when food is on there mind?

	03-02-2003 23:03									#77
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quote: NASA is one of the few things I'm happy to pay taxes for.

sorry, but do you really pay taxes?

	03-02-2003 23:06									#78
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I'm thinking it's about time to add another person to my ignore list.

	03-02-2003 23:07									#79
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Yes, I pay taxes Doc. I've been out of college for almost 5 years now (shudder).

-Arrian

	03-02-2003 23:08									#80
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Remember that Doc probably pays many hundreds of dollars per year to support NASA. He should be able to demand an accounting.

	03-02-2003 23:08									#81
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ok. now this is an insult.



Please tell me that none of you guys have serious thoughts about running for office or reproducing for that matter

	03-02-2003 23:10									#82
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I think they do important, worthwhile work in orbit, but they should'n't be launching 2 - decades old clunkers to get people and payload up there.

I figured by now they would have a good orbital entry vehicle that could launch off a jumbo jet. The way it's done now, with shi*loads of fuel and such a high risk, seems crude.

	03-02-2003 23:12									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Please tell me that none of you guys have serious thoughts about running for office or reproducing for that matter

Better us than you, neaderthal.

	03-02-2003 23:12									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood sorry, but do you really pay taxes?

I pay taxes and quite a bit. But apparently you would rather entitle my tax monies to a third world starving person thereby temporarily solving an immediate world issue. Long term solutions apparently don't apply.

Think man think.

	03-02-2003 23:15									#85
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quote: I'm thinking it's about time to add another person to my ignore list.

Words of wisdom to live by chegitz ?


Just ignore the problem and it will go away?


Thats incouraging from someone willing to give a blank check to a organization they can only guess at what goes on

	03-02-2003 23:16									#86
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The sad thing is that Che's view is also the view of the general public, so it looks like NASA will be keeping manned missions for a while.

	03-02-2003 23:18									#87
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quote: I pay taxes and quite a bit. But apparently you would rather entitle my tax monies to a third world starving person thereby temporarily solving an immediate world issue. Long term solutions apparently don't apply.

Now come on, I know you don't really mean this

	03-02-2003 23:20									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Docfeelgood Thats incouraging from someone willing to give a blank check to a organization they can only guess at what goes on

You want to know an easy way to find out what goes on with the money? www.nasa.gov

God, you're a ****ing moron.

quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh The sad thing is that Che's view is also the view of the general public, so it looks like NASA will be keeping manned missions for a while.

And good for us, because people's lives have been improved by manned space flight. More people are alive because of the medical technology that has resulted directly from manned space flight. People are more productive because of computers, the development of which was masssively improved because of manned space flight. The only people who are opposed to manned space flight are those who are ignorant about it.

	03-02-2003 23:21									#89
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I do not believe NASA is a waste of fund.

Although a manned mission to mars would be a waste and too dangerous.

We need to continue orbital work. If nothing else then for national security. Soon China will be in space. And we must continue space work so we are more familiar with the technology to get to space. Time may come when other nations threaten our satellits with their satellites. Developing technology to efficienty get into orbit is always a priority.

	03-02-2003 23:22									#90
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Do you guys really think that space exploration is more important than ending world hunger?