04-02-2003 22:18									#1
	Team-based game Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We're going to start a new game that will be team-based.

6 players, 3 teams randomly chosen
3 game start -> each player score his/her start-> best average score with smallest standard deviation is continued.
no accel production
random settings for everything except map size (standard).
No tech trade between teams
No contact of any kind between teammates until contact in the game.

I think it may be an interesting variant requiring flexible thinkers. Those who are lucky or skilled enough to find their partner will have an advantage. There may be combinations of builders with warmongers etc but this will require teamwork to win (I think).

Players:

anatolia (Korea) suro2003__@kornet.net
Ricketyclick (Oz) ricketyclik__@webone.com.au
cerebrusIV (UK) CerberusIVciv3__@aol.com
StSwf (EST) srlamm__@unity.ncsu.edu
SpencerH (CST) Trichsci__@excite.com
lmtoops (Texas) lmtoops__@yahoo.com

remove all underscores for real email address

Last edited by SpencerH on 07-02-2003 at 01:17

	05-02-2003 15:08									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'd like to play, but I need a team mate assigned.

I question the no tech trade rule (it is quite a successful aspect of team Ctp multiplaying by email) but I will defer to the other players.

I look forward to it

Edit: BTW, I'm Australian.

	05-02-2003 17:26									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I am interested in the no tech trading between teams as it will make a slightly different game.

Correct me if I have misunderstood but it means you can trade techs with your team mate but not with the other players. So a lot rests on finding your team mate and then co-ordinating your research.

I assume it is OK to steal techs from other teams. Is it allowed to extort techs for a peace treaty for example?

	05-02-2003 18:46									#4
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV I am interested in the no tech trading between teams as it will make a slightly different game. Correct me if I have misunderstood but it means you can trade techs with your team mate but not with the other players. So a lot rests on finding your team mate and then co-ordinating your research. I assume it is OK to steal techs from other teams. Is it allowed to extort techs for a peace treaty for example?

The basic idea is to prevent 'exclusive trade agreements' between civs (or in this case teams of civs) and to promote teamwork between what could be disparate playing styles.

Tech trading is an important component of civ so I am concerned that we may need to refine the rules somewhat. For example, shall we allow cross-team trading after: a certain year, development of a certain tech, extorted techs (I think its fine to extort them), etc?

An important point here will be no communication until contact in order to prevent team members from coordinating their research before they legitimately could.

	05-02-2003 19:02									#5
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quote: Originally posted by ricketyclik I'd like to play, but I need a team mate assigned. I question the no tech trade rule (it is quite a successful aspect of team Ctp multiplaying by email) but I will defer to the other players. I look forward to it Edit: BTW, I'm Australian.

Glad to have you onboard

anatolia (Korea)
Ricketyclick (Oz)
cerebrusIV (UK)
StSwf (EST)
SpencerH (CST)
lmtoops (Texas)

I still need to confirm StSwf and Imtoops

	06-02-2003 03:55									#6
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I am 100% in.

my nick is Lmtoops(small L). Not an i. Just to clarify.

	06-02-2003 05:06									#7
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Great, corrected to lmtoops. We're just waiting for one more since I havent heard from StSwf

	06-02-2003 10:08									#8
	Put an end to popups!

I mentioned that having good starting position would be a position close to your partner. You responed that a player would not know since the map only reveals the immediate area.

I was assuming that I would send my mini-map to my partner and coordinate activities in that manor. Is out of game contact (prior to in game contact), such as I have mentioned, legal? I would like to know up front.

	06-02-2003 11:11									#9
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Roger that.

StSwf is in, but I will be unable to complete a turn until Friday. Due to laptop deficiences. The day after tommorow. Other than that, Im fine with the settings. Teams should be fun, but we warned, I will dominate....

	06-02-2003 14:40									#10
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Tech trading. I wonder if this should be allowed once someone completes the Great Library, otherwise that team will have a substantial advantage over the other two. (they will anyway since they will presumably get all the techs without having to research but if the others can't trade it will be even more of an advantage)

	06-02-2003 17:08									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by lmtoops I mentioned that having good starting position would be a position close to your partner. You responed that a player would not know since the map only reveals the immediate area. I was assuming that I would send my mini-map to my partner and coordinate activities in that manor. Is out of game contact (prior to in game contact), such as I have mentioned, legal? I would like to know up front.

Thats illegal. You cant contact your partner in any way until you've met them in the game. Then all's fair.

	06-02-2003 17:15									#12
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Tech trading. I wonder if this should be allowed once someone completes the Great Library, otherwise that team will have a substantial advantage over the other two. (they will anyway since they will presumably get all the techs without having to research but if the others can't trade it will be even more of an advantage)

I dont think the GL will be a big factor. It will depend on how quickly the teams members meet up since they cant trade outside of their team. I was thinking that we could give espionage a new feature "allows tech trading between teams".

	06-02-2003 17:31									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I am inclined to go with no tech trading between teams period. Maybe reduce the cost of stealing techs in the editor as that will then be more important.

No contact before meeting in the game will be interesting. It could also make writing/mapmaking essential (selling someone communications with their team mate should be very profitable).

	06-02-2003 19:04									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Wouldnt we need to then send around a bic file if we make changes with the editor ?

Hopefully we can bash out the rules we want to play today. Then I'll make three starts and send them off tonight to lmtoops (I have NT at work so no PtW).

	06-02-2003 19:53									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Wouldnt we need to then send around a bic file if we make changes with the editor ?

Not AFAIK. I was under the impression that it simply means creating a scenario .bix file with changed rules and loading that in multiplayer when starting the game. However it is probably easiest to just go with the vanilla rules.

	06-02-2003 20:08									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm happy to go with the set up in the initial post of this thread, no tech trading between teams and no contact with your team mate before making contact in the game.

I don't want to make things too complicated.

SpencerH: can you edit your first post to include all six players, who is teamed with who, and their email addresses and civs so that the information is easy to find in future please.

EDIT: Anatolia is away until the 11th, I think, so the game won't get very far until then.

	06-02-2003 21:41									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Not AFAIK. I was under the impression that it simply means creating a scenario .bix file with changed rules and loading that in multiplayer when starting the game. However it is probably easiest to just go with the vanilla rules.

Has anyone tried that yet with PBEM?

	06-02-2003 21:50									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV I'm happy to go with the set up in the initial post of this thread, no tech trading between teams and no contact with your team mate before making contact in the game. I don't want to make things too complicated. SpencerH: can you edit your first post to include all six players, who is teamed with who, and their email addresses and civs so that the information is easy to find in future please. EDIT: Anatolia is away until the 11th, I think, so the game won't get very far until then.

If no one comments further by tonight (when I have access to the game) I suggest we accept the rules as per the original post. I (my daughter) will draw random numbers for teams. I'll set up all the pertinent info in the first post (emails, teams, what to do with the mapstart scores etc). Anatolia said he wanted Cerebrus to play his initial turns but we'll need someone who isnt in this game (to keep it blind) so I'll ask jshelr or eli if they'll play the first few turns for him instead.

	07-02-2003 00:11									#19
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I've got a temp replacement for Anatolia (jshelr) so with any luck we'll be underway tonight.

Please read the rules. If you disagree, say so now before we start. Its a real pain in the a$$ to start these games and then have people drop out because they end up in a situation they dont like.

Heres what to do with the savs:

I'll send 3 savs to lmtoops "team-game 1, 2, and 3". Play each sav as if it is the game we're gonna play. We wont go back in time to re-start so dont do foolish things. Make sure the sav name has the 1, 2 or 3 in its title. If you hate your start site, score it 0. If its perfect, score it 10. Once you've scored them all send all 3 savs to next in line. Send the sav number and score to me. I'll post them all when they're all in and we can discuss the results if necessary. From then on we just have the one sav to contend with (in this game).

As cerebrusIV said in the other thread (I think) make sure you end your turn by hitting the space bar or enter (when prompted) then just save it.

In one game I'm in, where we load the sav from the PtW start screen, we're up to 410AD and we havent had one hiccup. I dont know that we need to do that but I have seen many games with problems where people didnt do that. Depending on your system you may find it better to exit completely from PtW after saving prior to emailing. You can use alt to get back to an open window but I've generated lots of errors (and crashes) with my win98se system when doing so.

Last edited by SpencerH on 07-02-2003 at 01:20

	07-02-2003 01:20									#20
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Sounds good to me. Lets get this party started.

	07-02-2003 01:26									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thanks for the response. You probably wont see the savs until tommorrow morning (if all goes well).

	07-02-2003 02:33									#22
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Since reading SpencerH's comments I have been loading my other PBEM games from the main screen without any problems. What I have been doing is to get my email, start PTW, play my PBEM turns, exit PTW and send the saves. There has been no problem with this and I would recommend doing it this way (even if it is a bit time consuming opening and closing the programs)

	07-02-2003 03:55									#23
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OK the three starts are on their way to lmtoops. I'll edit the first post with the teams after we choose the game.

	07-02-2003 08:09									#24
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I sent of the saves to jshelr. And sent the ratings to SpencerH.

Remember the random civ. changes for each save. So consider that when rating the game.

	07-02-2003 16:37									#25
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OK, this looks good.

It's time for me to confess that this is my 1st PtW PBEM game, but I've played many CtP PBEM's, and much single player CIVIII.

So, I'd appreciate a quick step by step instruction on loading and saving PtW PBEM turns. As I understand it, one saves the attached file in a known directory, opens it from the Multiplayer screen in the game start screens, plays the turn, ends the turn, saves the turn, exits from the game, and emails the saved game to the following player.

Correct?

Thanks.

	07-02-2003 17:13									#26
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quote: Originally posted by ricketyclik OK, this looks good. It's time for me to confess that this is my 1st PtW PBEM game, but I've played many CtP PBEM's, and much single player CIVIII. So, I'd appreciate a quick step by step instruction on loading and saving PtW PBEM turns. As I understand it, one saves the attached file in a known directory, opens it from the Multiplayer screen in the game start screens, plays the turn, ends the turn, saves the turn, exits from the game, and emails the saved game to the following player. Correct? Thanks.

The sav will come with the previous players name (unless they change it) and the date. I usually save mine in a seperate folder within the PtW saves folder. Start the game, use load game from the main screen, dont go near multiplayer, set your passwords (if you want), play turn. Once the moves are done you will be prompted to hit enter or spacebar. Do that dont save on your own. Follow the prompts and save the game. It automatically gives the game a new name with your name and the date. It will put it into the PtW saves folder. Email to next player.


jshelr is a little busy this morning but hopefully he'll get the game out to you soon.

	07-02-2003 17:15									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

OK SpencerH, thankyou very much

	07-02-2003 21:53									#28
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The game(s) should be on their way to Ricketyclick. I've got the ratings from jshelr.

	08-02-2003 02:08									#29
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I'll be away from the computer this weekend. I be back Sunday evening. Hopefully I can get involved in the discussion about which file to use. But if not, I have ranked the games and will stand by the groups decision.

	08-02-2003 03:39									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

3 turns sent to CerberusIV.

Turn ratings sent to SpencerH.