06-02-2003 15:48									#1
	"It's All About Oil" Suffering from ads?

Why is this myth continually propagated from the left?

* Oil prices are rising due to a war, not falling. The extra revenue is not going to petroleum companies, but mainly OPEC.

* Bush has promised that Iraqi oil belongs to the Iraqis and always will. Not the US or petroleum countires.

Right will you shut up now.

	06-02-2003 16:28									#2
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quote: Bush has promised

Hmmm... when?

	06-02-2003 16:33									#3
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It's not all about oil. But if the Bush administration full of ex-oilmen isn't considering the effect of a war in the worlds premier oil producing region on the US's most important import then it'd be a bit surprising.

	06-02-2003 16:38									#4
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Not sure why I'm bothering, but...

1) Rising oil prices are helping all oil companies, including domestic US ones

2) I wouldn't believe any promise made by Bush or any other president, especially when the stakes are this high

3) Using the Bush administation's own rhetorical yardstick, Kim Jong Il measures up as way more dangerous than Saddam. Yet with him we're negotiating. Now why is that?

4) The oil-less Taliban hid Osama Bin Laden. The oil-rich Saudis funded him (and probably continue to do so. Whom did we bomb the crap out of, whom do we still call our friend, and what does that tell you about US foreign policy?

5) The US almost certainly played a role in last year's failed coup in Venezuela. Why? (Hint: The chief issue was Venezuelan oil, and the US weighed in on the side of the oil monopoly).

5) The US has 5% of the world's population and uses 20-25% of the world's oil. Gas-guzzling SUVs are the fastest-growing segment of its car market. Its fastest-growing regions are the suburbs, which generally lack any form of mass transportation. It's fastest growing cities are in the south and west, where cities can generally be navigated only by car (pedestrian-unfriendly, mass-transit-free). It's the only industrialized country in the world without a decent rail infrastructure. In America, everything is about oil.

	06-02-2003 16:49									#5
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It's all about flamebaiting.

	06-02-2003 16:53									#6
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Its a factor, and certainly influences America's non-military foreign policy.
I doubt that Big Oil is really that desperate, especially since Saddam would sell as much oil as he could if sanctions were lifted.

Its more a case of protecting US interests, of which one of them is a steady supply of oil.

Still it's not the major reason they're going to war.
Apart from anything else, its America stomping around like a latter day Rome.

	06-02-2003 16:55									#7
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Hear hear, Rufus!

The majority of the World's population is not buying the lies of the Bush Administration - the problem is whether that will be enough to stop his mad crusade...

	06-02-2003 17:05									#8
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Oil is not factor.

But even if it were, Bush and Powell have made a very good case for war on other grounds. It's those grounds that need to be considered.

Oil is a side matter. Anyway, if it is good the American economy, then it is good for the world economy. Would you rather the world economy be harmed?

Typical lefty: I'm against war because it's about oil.

	06-02-2003 17:38									#9
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Typical righty: Kill all those rag heads, we don't need their stinking oil.

	06-02-2003 17:42									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Typical righty: Kill all those rag heads, we don't need their stinking oil.

Even though all our aircraft carriers, warplanes, MBTS, APCS, missiles etc consume the stuff like it's going out of fashion...

Hey maybe they're going after Iraq to cover for all the oil they're going to consume in the coming war?

Sort of like the serpent eating it's own tail...

	06-02-2003 18:06									#11
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quote: Bush has promised that Iraqi oil belongs to the Iraqis and always will.

Boddington... give me a link, please?

quote: Ming on rakastajani

You do know what that means, right?

	06-02-2003 18:12									#12
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Oil rises in the short term, but after Saddam, American companies will be the first ones to "buy" the oil from Iraqi's. Basically, we're creating another Saudi Arabia by making a bunch of Iraqi businessmen rich while they funnel most of the money to Islamic fundamentalists just like the Saudis.

	06-02-2003 18:14									#13
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If it has nothing to do with oil, why are we trying to blackmail Russia and France into supporting us by threatening that they will have no access to Iraqi oil after the war?

	06-02-2003 18:37									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu You do know what that means, right?

Yep.

	06-02-2003 18:42									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu : You do know what that means, right?

I don't

	06-02-2003 18:57									#16
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We were trying to translate Ming's a bastard into as many languages as possibe and someone said that this was Ming's a bastard in Finnish. Actually it means something like Ming's my lover.

	06-02-2003 18:59									#17
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Ahhh- cheers

	06-02-2003 20:04									#18
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quote: Using the Bush administation's own rhetorical yardstick, Kim Jong Il measures up as way more dangerous than Saddam. Yet with him we're negotiating. Now why is that?

Kim might have nukes already. And since when were we negotiating? I thought we cut him off.

quote: The US has 5% of the world's population and uses 20-25% of the world's oil. Gas-guzzling SUVs are the fastest-growing segment of its car market. Its fastest-growing regions are the suburbs, which generally lack any form of mass transportation. It's fastest growing cities are in the south and west, where cities can generally be navigated only by car (pedestrian-unfriendly, mass-transit-free). It's the only industrialized country in the world without a decent rail infrastructure. In America, everything is about oil.

And only 2% of our oil imports come from Iraq.

It ain't about oil. It's about Bush's hatred of Saddam. UR thinks that is probabaly worse, and he may be right, but those that think this is about oil, don't really understand Bush at all.

	06-02-2003 20:10									#19
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Going in to secure oil fields for our benefit is silly, especially considering that Saddam will sell us all the oil we want anyway. As recently as August 2002, we were buying over a million barrels of oil a day from him.

	06-02-2003 20:12									#20
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An article related to war/oil/economy:
http://chapelhill.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/2177.php

It is fairly long, but this should give you the basic idea of the topic:

quote: "The upcoming war in Iraq is mostly about how the ruling class at Langley and the Bush administration view hydrocarbons at the geo-strategic level, and the overarching macroeconomic threats to the U.S. dollar from the euro. The Real Reason for this upcoming war is this administration's goal of preventing further OPEC momentum towards the euro as an oil transaction currency standard. However, in order to pre-empt OPEC, they need to gain geo-strategic control of Iraq along with its 2nd largest proven oil reserves. This essay will discuss the macroeconomics of the "petro-dollar" and the unpublicized but real threat to U.S. economic hegemony from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency. The following is how an astute and anonymous friend alluded to the unspoken truth about this upcoming war with Iraq... "The Federal Reserve's greatest nightmare is that OPEC will switch its international transactions from a dollar standard to a euro standard. Iraq actually made this switch in Nov. 2000 (when the euro was worth around 80 cents), and has actually made off like a bandit considering the dollar's steady depreciation against the euro." (Note: the dollar declined 17% against the euro in 2002.) "The real reason the Bush administration wants a puppet government in Iraq - or more importantly, the reason why the corporate-military-industrial network conglomerate wants a puppet government in Iraq - is so that it will revert back to a dollar standard and stay that way." (While also hoping to veto any wider OPEC momentum towards the euro, especially from Iran – the 2nd largest OPEC producer who is actively discussing a switch to euros for its oil exports).

Note: I just pulled the link from a separate list I read, have no idea of the credibility of the sources etc, but thought it was an interesting factor to add into the mix if the facts check out.

	06-02-2003 20:14									#21
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Oil is the reason why the area is so important in the first place. That however doesn't mean that everything that happens there is directly linked to oil. That part was probably much more important the first time around.

	06-02-2003 20:14									#22
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Pete: That was an amusing article.

	07-02-2003 20:53									#23
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It ain't about the oil, the economics don't make sense.

But it might be about the water. Iraq has the major source of fresh water in the region by a long measure.

It is probably about keeping Israel from launching another preemptive strike at Iraq's nukes, like they did 15 years ago.

It is probably about setting up for the fall of the Saudi royal house.

	07-02-2003 20:54									#24
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Its about sand, we need it to grit our roads(not my joke but pretty good)

	07-02-2003 21:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Its about sand, we need it to grit our roads(not my joke but pretty good)

That is a good one. In the winter we get all that damn beach sand blowing on to the roads, its a big fat hassle around here.

	07-02-2003 21:08									#26
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I still think it is about having a reliable source of oil during the upcoming tension against Saudi Arabia, which funds terrorism.
It is also about the US being the only power in the region, by deterring any Arabic country to become one, and punishing any country who would like ot become one. In the end, it means US supremacy on oil.

There may be some other concerns as well (I don't believe any second we'd go to war only because Saddam is an *******, it is pure propaganda for the public opinion), but domination over this oil-rich part of the Arabic world seems to be the highest priority.

Now, you could say that Bush is just power-hungry, rather than oil hungry

	07-02-2003 21:11									#27
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quote: I don't believe any second we'd go to war only because Saddam is an *******, it is pure propaganda for the public opinion

Believe it, because that is the reason for war. It has little, if anything, to do with oil.

*shrug* Euros for some reason see Bush as this master schemer, who is trying to get power and oil, while at the same time calling him a moron. It's kinda funny. Most Americans though, I believe, know that this war is because of Bush's hatred for Saddam and all he stands for.

	07-02-2003 21:12									#28
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Isn't NASA just about the "Moon Gold"?

	07-02-2003 21:14									#29
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi It's NASA just about the "Moon Gold."

"Moon Cheese"

	07-02-2003 21:25									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui *shrug* Euros for some reason see Bush as this master schemer, who is trying to get power and oil

Master schemer!!? The whole power and oil theory is so obviously lacking in imagination or finesse that it has Bush's named stamped all over it!

Only a moron or a megalomaniac would think of a plan like that...