08-02-2003 03:37									#91
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	08-02-2003 04:28									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Um... the US didnt steal your land, we conquered it

same thing, ain't it?

	08-02-2003 04:37									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen same thing, ain't it?

well, off the top of my head, i would think there really is only a such thing as conqeuring (if land is taken by force, that is).

I see stealing merely as a term used by bitter losers of a war when they whine about thier lost territory.

Now, if the US would have taken the land by political means (i.e. getting the local government/people to overthrow their leaders and join the US), then that i think could be called stealing. I dunno, i gueess it is all relative to how one percieves the definition of a word and how they choose to apply it.

Kman

	08-02-2003 05:02									#94
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well, the US started the war for expansionist reasons so I don't see why it can't be called stealing.

Iraq "conquered" Kuwait in 1991, so that is not stealing?

	08-02-2003 07:33									#95
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Aren't these the cases where the men did not identify themselves as foreign?

I'm wondering what should be done about people who do not inform their arrestors as being foreigners, or the instances of a crime committed by an illegal alien. If I cross the border to Canada or something and live there a long time without filing taxes, or whatever and I commit a crime, am I still afforded the full rights of an American citizen?

	08-02-2003 08:50									#96
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well, I doubt you'd be entitled to the "full rights" of an American citizen since you are not in the US and would be tried under Canadian law.

But no matter what, I would believe you still have the right to contact your consular authorities upon your arrest.

Even if you do not inform the arrestors that you are foreigner, they would obviously realise that you are not a local (no documents, etc.) and would be compelled to let you know your right to contact your consulate because it is stipulated in some world convention. It's like a Miranda-warning

	08-02-2003 12:06									#97
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quote: your government makes a HUGE fuss whenever a US citizen is arrested and tried in Mexico.

And yours makes a huge fuss when Mexicans are arrested in the US, what's your point? Does anything actually happen because of it?

quote: well, the US started the war for expansionist reasons so I don't see why it can't be called stealing.

And you fell for it by attacking .

quote: Iraq "conquered" Kuwait in 1991, so that is not stealing

Nope. But then we took it back .

	09-02-2003 02:07									#98
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger So you are saying when the US signs a treaty it isn't binding on the States themselves.

Wrong. The federal government has the sole power to make treaties with other nations and the states are obligated to obey them unless the treaty violates the state's rights under the Constitution. The Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of the Constitutionality of a treaty. bviously the US government could not make a treaty that handed over the executive powers of Texas to Mexico, but all that is asked here is that Texas simply take the simple step of notifying Mexico of the arrest of one of its citizens. I should add that it is up to the accused or his lawyer to inform the state of his status as a foreign citizen.

quote: The argument here is that the defendants as foreigners were entitled to consular assistance, this was denied to them.Why is Texas not bound to this treaty

I'm still waiting for someone to specify which treaty obligates the US to inform the embassy or consul of a foreign nation when one of its citizens is arrested here.

	09-02-2003 03:04									#99
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The worlds least powerful court is making demands on the worlds most powerful judicial system. How Ironic.

Now you wonder why we never supported that crap.


Above, Oh how Ironic. Where does all this "Moral" speak come from? Indians were a bunch of savage's and there civilization had stagnated the moment they crossed the bering straight.

	09-02-2003 08:52									#100
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quote: Originally posted by MacTBone Aren't these the cases where the men did not identify themselves as foreign? I'm wondering what should be done about people who do not inform their arrestors as being foreigners, or the instances of a crime committed by an illegal alien. If I cross the border to Canada or something and live there a long time without filing taxes, or whatever and I commit a crime, am I still afforded the full rights of an American citizen?

Yes.

	09-02-2003 09:09									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen same thing, ain't it?

Yes, but Mexico was stupid enough to fall into a great big bear trap so they deserved what they got. Attempting to revoke the treaty of San Jacinto and attacking an American company north of the Rio Grande were not the actions of a very intelligent man.

If Mexico hadn't put its faith in a tin pot dictator they might still have the other half of their territory.

	09-02-2003 09:11									#102
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Nope. You guys would have done it sooner or later. You had your eyes set on southwest expansion from day 1.

If it wasn't one excuse it would have been another.