01-04-2003 11:50									#61
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Yep, doing Library instead of a Temple is ok (I made a mistake in my calcs, which made me believe we would finish Temple wasting no shield/food). This schedule also gives us the possibility to keep Legopolis at pop 8 in the end (2 MP units + Dye + Temple), generating 14 shields per turn... if we make full use of this potential, we could have a cathedral there just around the time we'd be switching to Republic - allowing us to operate Legopolis at up to pop 9 and 15-16 shields per turn with no need to spend money on luxuries. An ideal set-up for a Sistine build, I would say.

	02-04-2003 12:25									#62
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I am more and more convinced that we need more workers. In Northern Legos we have 6 workers improving 7 cities, which wasn't be so bad if the area had less jungle and we didn't prepare to build more cities! We need badly the commerce from low corruption cities like Dye Fields and Kloreepville and from half-corrupted cities, like Sharpeheaven, Benelux or Port Hammer (and even Tarzania).

Right now we don't have a chance to profit from these potentially great cities, because either they are underdeveloped (Legopolis, Forkmouth, Sharpeheaven) or they are surrounded by jungles (Red Bricks, Dye Fields). Some cities we can't even build (we could but in the current situtation it's useless), because the terrain is bad and is not being improved! (Kloreepville, Benelux, Port Hammer, Tarzania).

We needed the soutehrn cities (and still need them) to grab the southern land (good land with great potential) but until the FP will be built, they are close to useless.

We need those northern cities to maintain our good commerce output, to outresearch others, to have gold for maintenance and military, etc.

We need more workers!

	02-04-2003 13:00									#63
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Yes, we need workers to boost population so we can pop-rush!

Seriously, I noticed discussion in the channel about how Jackson is a prime target because of the Pyramids.... why? Its no better a target than anywhere else. Pyramids would be useless without the rest of our Empire.

	03-04-2003 04:52									#64
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Forkmouth will most likely build workers constantly once the pyramids are built and the wheat is irrigated, since it will then grow every two turns and workers drain pop more efficiently. (10 shields per pop point as opposed to 15 shields per point for settlers.)

As for Jackson: it likely wouldn't be for the Pyramids alone, but if a Bob civ was out to get us, removing granaries from all our cities while taking a nice, coastal landing point near Legopolis would definitely be a good idea.

	03-04-2003 05:20									#65
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Yes, while the Pyramids might not be that useful for an enemy empire, the city itself occupies a very strategic position. Plus, usefullness doesn't always weigh into the decision; haven't you ever taken a wonder city from the AI even if you didn't really need it? It's all about the glory

	03-04-2003 08:36									#66
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Also, it's taking away the enemies advantage...but mostly it's the glory.

	08-04-2003 15:58									#67
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I know this is something like 8 turns away, but what do you think, which one should be our next city? Kloreepville, Tarzania, Port Hammer, Benelux? Something else?

	08-04-2003 16:18									#68
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I would go for Tarzania or Kloreepville, but have no really strong preference... Benelux would also have its advantages. Even Crossing, Oasis, or Castlea would make sense. But most probably Tarzania (due to its proximity to Farmerville), with Kloreepville as close second. By founding Tarzania and stationing Forkman upon the mountain NE of the barb camp, we will create a very lanrge continuous area without FoW -> less barb problems, easier to defend.

	09-04-2003 00:26									#69
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Agreed, Tarzania next. I'm not sure if Kloreepville should be founded anytime soon; it'll need several workers devoted to it, and we won't get any FoW benefits assuming we can keep a scout in the area. So definitely Tarzania next; after that, I'd say Tiberium (it'll make a good worker factory).

	09-04-2003 10:17									#70
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But Kloreepville would be a less corrupted city. It'd (almost) complete the level 1 circle around Legopolis (with Castlea remaining to be built). It'd need some serious work, yes, but so was/is Red Bricks and Dye Fields, too. Besides with the help of the Pyramids it shouldn't be a problem to pump out quickly some new workers. Not only we need to work the Kloreepville area, but prepare the Benelux and Port Hammer area, too.

I agree however with Tarzania being next (our eastern coast is more important now).

	10-04-2003 10:09									#71
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Looking at the Legopolis workers, I think some more jungle can be cleared sooner than I was thinking; while I want Legopolis to be able to operate at size 9 - which means more hills mined and roaded - we'll have a nice size 7 operation under despotism, which is covered by the current mining projects, and Robbie can finish the last two hills. Leopold and Charlie should be able to work on Jungle. The first of two jungles on a path to Kloreepville could be cleared, roaded, and mined a few turns before Kloreepville is founded.

So, I Kloreepville would probably be a good next move; it can be connected ~5 after founding if the turn 103 Legopolis settler is used. The 106 Panama settler can be used for Tiberium or Port Hammer. (Suez/Benelux should wait for sometime after 106, IMO. We'll need to get at least one worker up there before the city would be worthwhile., and Kloreepville and Sharpehaven will take the northeastern workforce's attention for a while.)

	10-04-2003 10:15									#72
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So the next 5 settlers would build Tarzania, Kloreepville, Port Hammer, Tiberium (I'm still not completely happy with this name, but I don't have better ideas ) and Benelux, more or less in this order.


Edit: Did any of you notice that I was trying to convince Kloreep that Kloreepville should be our next city, while he was opposing this, trying to prove me, Tiberius, that Tiberium is a better idea?

Last edited by Tiberius on 10-04-2003 at 10:25

	10-04-2003 10:35									#73
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Hehe, I was wondering when someone would notice the irony. I still want Tiberium founded ASAP, since it'll be a good worker factory thanks to the Pyramids (so I'm not so sure about founding Port Hammer before it); but I'm now convinced Kloreepville would be a better second city.

	10-04-2003 10:46									#74
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Well, Port Hammer would be less corrupted, should be relatetively easy to develop (some irrigations and mines), it could build a harbor early on (thus allowing usd to build veretan caravels), and most importantly, we will be able to oversee the sea movements in the area (you never know).

We could use the Panama settler for Port Hammer and a Legopolis or Farmerville settler for Tiberium (think about all the turns lost moving a Panama settler in the south).

Last edited by Tiberius on 10-04-2003 at 10:51

	10-04-2003 11:05									#75
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Err... irrigation? We'd have to irrigate up several tiles and chop the forest. The chop wouldn't be too bad, but I don' think it's a great city site.

Still, you're right about the wasted turns; especially without Engineering, it's a long journey. A settler from Farmerville would be better (it can probably do one or two settlers before becoming a worker factory, to get it up to a higher pop). Port Hammer it is, unless someone objects.

	10-04-2003 13:29									#76
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Tiberius, what about calling your city Tiberit?

	10-04-2003 13:47									#77
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Eughhh, bleahhh, cahhhh, grrrr

I promise that before building it I'll come with some decent name for it

	10-04-2003 14:01									#78
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Yes, Tiberit... like yperit...
Or Tibium... like opium...
Or, Tiberion... like Pantheon...

Or St. Tibi/St. Tiberius?

Considering your recent sacrifice of a key post, it would seem appropriate...

	10-04-2003 14:19									#79
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Is it me or people are making fun of me Nah, it must be my imagination

Be careful, I'm a peaceful wolf, but I still have my killer instincts intact, waiting for the right moment to break out Grrrrr.

	12-04-2003 12:58									#80
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An idea crossed my mind... I think Kloreep currently plans to build barracks in Zargonia and then use the city as a military camp (more or less). What about building a harbour in there instead and start building our navy? The city is situated conveniently on our east coast, not far from the mid-point between the Northern and Southern provinces...

With barracks in Panama and 2 more planned for Jackson & Forkmouth, I believe we will have barracked cities relatively enough...

	12-04-2003 21:22									#81
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Re using Zargonia for a navy base - perhaps, but let's see how the corruption levels are in Republic everywhere first before doing that.

I agree with getting Tarzania soon - and Port Hammer and Benelux.

However, I am not totally sure when we should get Tiberium and Kloreepville. Kloreepville will require massive jungle work and Tiberium will be a lousy city site even with Republic until the FP is built. I would perhaps getting Ah my foot and Quanto done around the same time as Tiberium.

We do need a 2nd horse source so that and the wheat elevate Quanto though the plains and the lack of irrigation are a major downside - though less so if we can found Ah my foot to clear more barbs and start the irrigation path that way.

	13-04-2003 00:46									#82
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Kloreepville is just as good as Red Bricks or Dye Fields were. A lot of jungle to be cleared, but because their proximity to the capital, low corruption cities with great commerce output after a few cleared tiles.

Besides for Benelux we still need some roads in the jungle so it is better to clear it from the beginning.

IMHO the following cities should be in this order: Tarzania, Kloreepville, Port Hammer, Benelux, Tiberium.

Edit: but I find important for now only the first 4

On a sidenote, I'd like to build as soon as possible (as soon as we will be able to sacrifice a worker) an outpost on the northernmost point on Legos Major, to oversee all see movement coming from Bob.

Last edited by Tiberius on 13-04-2003 at 01:47

	13-04-2003 01:52									#83
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Re: Zargonia as naval base - I'll leave this up to Sharpe and Zargon. Either way is fine; just so long as no other cities (EG Legopolis, Red Bricks, Karina) are requred to produce units to make up for none coming out of Zargonia.

Re: Outpost - I'd rather just found one or two cities up there, if it's that important... an outpost seems like a waste, and our settlers are rapidly becoming no more than lookout point creators and territory claimers.

	13-04-2003 02:05									#84
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re an outpost on the most northern part of Legos Major

An eventually useless unit such as Gaul might be a good outpost especially if he is sitting on a mountain.

	14-04-2003 10:30									#85
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Bad news from Forkmouth today - corruption is worse than expected, and the temple and the barracks will both take longer to complete. See the building timeline for details; basically, the city produces one less shield than expected, delaying the temple by two turns and subsequently delaying everything after as well. (And if you haven't looked at the timeline recently, it's updated beyond turn 92 now; most cities go up to turn 103.

But hey, on the upside, we have the Pyramids. Go Legoland!

	14-04-2003 15:16									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Bad news from Forkmouth today - corruption is worse than expected, and the temple and the barracks will both take longer to complete. See the building timeline for details; basically, the city produces one less shield than expected, delaying the temple by two turns and subsequently delaying everything after as well.

We are starting to run into the corruption due to the number of cities. That's why the corruption/waste levels had changed for Forkmouth (it was after we founded Sharpehaven).

	18-04-2003 22:27									#87
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Kloreep, I am making an official MA request to change the upcoming Merc build in Jackson to a galley. This if for security reasons in lieu of GoW-ND potential activities. Another Merc will need to be constructed elsewhere to replace this one, so we'll need to hammer that out.

	19-04-2003 01:58									#88
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I'm not really sure where the Merc would go... perhaps we could scrap the Temple build in Jackson and have it build both the Merc and galley. (galley could be built this turn using the barrack's shields... no reason not to delay it till a land unit is built.) I'll have to look in to it. I'll try to do that tonight.

	19-04-2003 02:40									#89
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Actually Zargon and I were chatting about it earlier - we might be able to get away with just delaying the merc and then building mercs in both Legopolis and Jackson once the settler is done at Legopolis and the Temple is complete at Jackson.

By the way, I suspect we need another worker build in Jackson within 10 turns as it will reach the size 6 ceiling again by then. So either following the temple or before it perhaps.

	19-05-2003 11:58									#90
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Jackson should build a worker again after the current merc. They are closing to the point when losing food again.

Btw, I've just noticed that Tarzania has 3 non-improvable sea tiles. Now it's a little late to complain, but I think that founding it one tile E or N-E from where it is now would have been better.

Last edited by Tiberius on 19-05-2003 at 12:04