15-02-2003 02:13									#241
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quote: Ok Imran, I can quit my minimum wage job and get a job that pays 300 bucks an hour.

That has happened... especially when you work in minimum wage until you graduate law school .

Of course in socialist / communist states you were able to leave a lower paying job for a much higher one .

There is a reason people work in minimum wage jobs: Because they are teenagers that don't have the education for higher paying jobs. Outside of teenagers, there aren't many people that work for minimum wage.

I doubt it any socialist paradise, you'd also someone that isn't that educated to quit his janitorial job and work as a brain surgeon .

	15-02-2003 02:17									#242
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yeah, well, I get that way some times.

*puts flamethrower back into locker*

	15-02-2003 02:19									#243
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui There is a reason people work in minimum wage jobs: Because they are teenagers that don't have the education for higher paying jobs. Outside of teenagers, there aren't many people that work for minimum wage.

No, but there are plenty that work for 8 or 9 dollars an hour.

	15-02-2003 02:21									#244
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quote: how dare you accuse of theft people that are trying to make more people happy.

Why? It's true. Why should I care about thier motives?

	15-02-2003 02:23									#245
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So you say that conseqences have no meaning in assessing the morality of an act?

	15-02-2003 02:26									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel So you say that conseqences have no meaning in assessing the morality of an act?

Do you really care why a thief stole from you?

	15-02-2003 02:28									#247
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yes. I wouldn't be angry at him, if he had no choice but to steal.

	15-02-2003 02:30									#248
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Life is full of choices.

	15-02-2003 02:31									#249
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quote: No, but there are plenty that work for 8 or 9 dollars an hour.

They make relative to their education level. I don't see that changing too much in a totally socialist state. I mean in some mixed states in Europe, the government provides for education throughout university. You think a communist government could go further?

	15-02-2003 02:32									#250
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: No, but there are plenty that work for 8 or 9 dollars an hour. They make relative to their education level. I don't see that changing too much in a totally socialist state. I mean in some mixed states in Europe, the government provides for education throughout university. You think a communist government could go further?

And if you have to borrow for college then you have college loans to pay off

	15-02-2003 02:37									#251
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quote: And if you have to borrow for college then you have college loans to pay off

Um, of course. But the education you gain will pay those loans off for you and leave you with a much higher living standard than without.

You make an investment in human capital by borrowing, you undoubtably have to pay it off when the promise is realized.

	15-02-2003 02:43									#252
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quote: Life is full of choices.

for us, yes. Not for people in most of the world.

quote: They make relative to their education level. I don't see that changing too much in a totally socialist state. I mean in some mixed states in Europe, the government provides for education throughout university. You think a communist government could go further?

Well, yes, provide a very good education for small children. This is when the personality evolves after all. Many kids today suffer due to miseducation at these tender ages. This is the only thing I'd change in education. That and free school utilities, like notebooks, pencils, etc. It doesn't cost much, but it will help so many.

And of course, I'd make the various education directions available at the same proportions they'll be needed in the industry.

	15-02-2003 03:07									#253
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And if you have to borrow for college then you have college loans to pay off Um, of course. But the education you gain will pay those loans off for you and leave you with a much higher living standard than without.

It can be tough. Some people pay big bucks to pay back their loans. The point is if I have to borrow to pay for college it's that much harder to elevate myself and ny decendants to a higher class.

	15-02-2003 03:09									#254
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Life is full of choices -DinoDoc

quote: Originally posted by Azazel for us, yes. Not for people in most of the world.

DinoDoc is talking about the molemen at the center of the earth again

	15-02-2003 03:11									#255
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Libertarians are so dense and naive. They say, "don't steal our money," yet they are too greedy to help those poor people in Africa.

The assumption that "you'll get rich if you work hard" is a bunch of capitalist propaganda used to keep thier workers under control. Most poor people work hard all thier lives, and retire poor; while the rich kid inherits some of his/her parent's money (Thank heavans of a death tax) and is rich without even working. I say we make inheritance of money ILLEGAL; everybody should work just as hard to get as far. Let the rich kid work in a factory, or a bar (like my mom), or a sugar beet processing facillity (like my my dad)!

	15-02-2003 03:17									#258
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I DON"T BELEIVE IT! People are agreeing with me! Take that, Imran.

	15-02-2003 03:19									#259
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Odin: I actually think that libertarians simply follow the wrong ethics. It can be a philosophical question too, you know.

	15-02-2003 03:20									#260
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The libertarians sleep. The time is right. WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

	15-02-2003 03:23									#261
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK The libertarians sleep. The time is right. WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

	15-02-2003 03:26									#263
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LIbertarians simply feel that the wealthy's right to their money is more important than a child born in to poverty's right to education and health care.

Imran, in your dilluded dream world, you think that anyone can just go to school, get student loans and work to get a better job. Wrong. Maybe people that are lucky enough to get born into wealth, go to rich suburban schools, and get sent to ivy league schools; but not people born to poverty. They don't even have decent public education, so by 17-18, they don't have the education to even get into college if they wanted to. And many times, people have to quit school and work so their family can have enough money to eat or have a roof over their heads.

There's this stupid conservative stereotype that everyone's socio-economic situation is like their's, and that poor people are just lazy and don't want to work.

In a socialists' paradise, Imran, people wouldn't simply get paid a lot for doing, say, a janitorial job. They would probably get paid less or the same as they are now; except they wouldn't have to worry about paying for health care, education for their kids (or themselves) and if they need it, subsidized housing so that they can have a f*cking roof over their heads.

Why do you think, that of the pool of people that understand the Sociology of America, the vast majority support Socialist programs? Because they are educated enough to know what life in the real world is like and they don't live in some ignorant, fantasy world.

	15-02-2003 05:32									#264
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel for us, yes. Not for people in most of the world.

Dealing with choices is a consequence of being alive.

	15-02-2003 05:42									#265
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Dealing with choices is a consequence of being alive.

No, dealing with your lack of choices is a consequence of being born without property.

	15-02-2003 05:46									#266
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK No, dealing with your lack of choices is a consequence of being born without property.

Everyone are given the choice to behave in a moral or immoral fashion regardless of thier station in life. I'm sorry that you see yourself as nothing more than a mere automoton already consigned to your fate from birth and not responsible for your actions.

	15-02-2003 06:00									#267
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What does that have to do with my lack of economic choices?

	15-02-2003 06:01									#268
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK What does that have to do with my lack of economic choices?

Perhaps you should follow the thread and read what I am responding to before asking stupid questions.

	15-02-2003 06:08									#269
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Oh, sorry. I fell asleep while you were providing a moral justification for capitalism.

	15-02-2003 06:12									#270
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK Oh, sorry. I fell asleep while you were providing a moral justification for capitalism.

You'll have to look elsewhere if you want someone to give you that. I was only dealing with Azazel and his moral justification for thieves.