15-02-2003 12:57									#61
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf Of the nations opposing us, there is not a single one that does not receive significant aid from us (yes, including France and Germany). Again I ask, why do we continue this? Or maybe the lack of response is answer enough.

Significant aid????

Lets see, the US aid budget is about 10 billion: 3 billion goes to israel, 2 go to Egypt, the rest here and there, but of course, Germany (GNP about 2 Trillion+) and France (GNP about 1.5 trillion) sure need that aid money from the US's 10 trillion GNP.

No, Germany and France , and certainly China, do not recieve any aid money form the US governemnt, and France and Germany do not get any US aid money even inderectly thorugh UN programs (in the way china might).

Hope that response is answer enough.

	15-02-2003 13:00									#62
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And how much have Germany and France spent to defend themselves? How much did they spend to defend themselves?

How many countries have free loaded on the US defense budget?

	15-02-2003 13:11									#63
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GERMANY:

Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$38.8 billion (2002)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
1.38% (2002)

FRANCE:

Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$46.5 billion (2000)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
2.57% (2002)

UNITED STATES:

Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$276.7 billion (FY99 est.)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
3.2% (FY99 est

UNITED KINGDOM:

Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$31.7 billion (2002)
Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
2.32% (2002)

Source: CIA World Factbook 2002

	15-02-2003 13:12									#64
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The truth is Germany and France both recieve indirect aid from the U.S. in the form of defense subsidies. It is also monsterously unfair that we continue to accept the import of EU goods (such as agricultural good or steel) which have recieve gigantic direct subsidies but this is another matter.

	15-02-2003 13:16									#65
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What is the US defending Germany and France from, aftre the fall fo the Soviets? The Iraqis? The Terrorists? US bases in Europe are as much for our benefit as their, in fact, more for ours at this point. Wehter the frencha dn germans want to spend more ont ehir militaries is a political choice left to them.

As for the subsidies issue: take it up with the WTO: wait, that is exactly what the US does (correclty)

	15-02-2003 13:17									#66
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Right Tass, IOW, they are depending on the US to maintain the security of the oil fields. Just as 20 years ago they relied on the US to deter the Red Army from moving West.

Only, now they're *****ing because the French and Russians have some contracts in those particular oil fields. How much of a fuss do you think the French would throw up if it were not for those interests?

It's all about oil? Yep. But not for Bush and the Yanks.

	15-02-2003 13:19									#67
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Well done notyoueither.

	15-02-2003 13:22									#68
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It's all about oil? Yep. But not for Bush and the Yanks.

No, the entire thing is about oil. For France, for the US, for Russia....for everyone. Because otherwise they wouldnt care if a dictator half a world away is killed and a country plunges into anarchy.

	15-02-2003 13:23									#69
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Does anyone on this damn board understand a damn thing about how oil works internationally, or we all just playing a game where we can keep saying "nopenopenope, it's all oil, nope nope nope" ad naseum? Give me a break.

	15-02-2003 13:27									#70
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Yes, Tass. We all care when it is a dictator who has invaded 2 of his oil producing neighbours. It's just the French have chosen a peculiar time to dig in.

Some of us even think that if he is left alone he might just do it again. Apparently the French and some others don't give a damn about this, or the plight of the Iraqi people.

Tell me, how many times have the French moved for the sanctions to be lifted recently? They haven't. They are perfectly happy to see Saddam go on starving his people, but God help you if you try to interfere with their status quo re power in the region.

Can you spell hypocrite? I knew you could.

	15-02-2003 13:28									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Asher we all just playing a game where we can keep saying "nopenopenope, it's all oil, nope nope nope" ad naseum?

Congratulations. You get a cookie.

quote: Give me a break.

Asher is onery today..... It's time for your nap.

	15-02-2003 13:30									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Congratulations. You get a cookie.

I just wanted to make sure Apolyton was collectively talking out of our asses.

quote: Asher is onery today..... It's time for your nap.

I think you mean ornery.

	15-02-2003 13:39									#73
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quote: I just wanted to make sure Apolyton was collectively talking out of our asses.

Was it ever in doubt?

	15-02-2003 13:42									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Seeing as how the Eurocoms have lost all sense of a moral backbone, I am going to be holding a retroactive "No War Against Hitler" march.

Ted, Ted, Ted. Everybody knows that this war has nothing to do with morals.

	15-02-2003 13:45									#75
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Right Tass, IOW, they are depending on the US to maintain the security of the oil fields.

Oil fields? Defending the oil fields from whom, may I ask? Will the Iraqis capture the North Sea oil fields?

This is just getting more ludicrous all the time.

	15-02-2003 13:47									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Does anyone on this damn board understand a damn thing about how oil works internationally, or we all just playing a game where we can keep saying "nopenopenope, it's all oil, nope nope nope" ad naseum? Give me a break.

Asher: Taking the time to learn about international commodity markets takes effort so it is much easier for the lazy to just keep repeating "Nope, Nope, Nope" ad naseum.

	15-02-2003 13:47									#77
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quote: I think you mean ornery.

I hate you.

And I just took a 500 question test, so Im' going to respond to NYEs response tomorrow.

	15-02-2003 13:50									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Oil fields? Defending the oil fields from whom, may I ask? Will the Iraqis capture the North Sea oil fields? This is just getting more ludicrous all the time.

Geez, Bob. Maybe the guy who attacked two oil producing neighbours?

Duh!

Ludicrous? That would be the willful blindness of the quiet supporters of the homicidal dictator.

	15-02-2003 13:51									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Ted, Ted, Ted. Everybody knows that this war has nothing to do with morals.

Translation: I am completely unable to fathom ideas such as moral right and wrong. Making such decisions scares me so I shall avoid doing so in every possible way. Since I am like this I assume everyone else in the world is the same.

	15-02-2003 13:54									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Translation: I am completely unable to fathom ideas such as moral right and wrong. Making such decisions scares me so I shall avoid doing so in every possible way. Since I am like this I assume everyone else in the world is the same.

Been there, seen that.

Ran out of arguments?

	15-02-2003 14:00									#81
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OK

Geez, Bob. Maybe the guy who attacked two oil producing neighbours?

Duh!

Ludicrous? That would be the willful blindness of the quiet supporters of the homicidal dictator.

Got something to say, UR?

	15-02-2003 14:01									#82
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Geez, Bob. Maybe the guy who attacked two oil producing neighbours?

Which European country did that after the USSR had fallen apart?

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Ludicrous? That would be the willful blindness of the quiet supporters of the homicidal dictator.

Homocidal dictator? Oh my side! Is there no end to your silliness? Keep those bald assertions coming, please.

	15-02-2003 14:02									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Which European country did that after the USSR had fallen apart?

Do you have a clue, or do you need to purchase one?

	15-02-2003 14:02									#84
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The American people clearly see Saddam as a threat who must be disarmed. If Bush makes the case to the American people that the UN and the international community isn't cooperating, I predict the American people will support the war.

	15-02-2003 14:03									#85
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Do you have a clue, or do you need to purchase one?

If you have no arguments, you should just concede.

	15-02-2003 14:04									#86
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Don't feed the trolls, boys. UR isn't worth anyone's time.

	15-02-2003 14:04									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi The American people clearly see Saddam as a threat who must be disarmed. If Bush makes the case to the American people that the UN and the international community isn't cooperating, I predict the American people will support the war.

BD, the support for the war has been decreasing. There will be massive protests even in the US cities.

	15-02-2003 14:04									#88
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Nice try genius. Too bad you say nothing and try to pass it off as something.

	15-02-2003 14:05									#89
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Nice try genius. Too bad you say nothing and try to pass it off as something.

Are you going to answer my questions, or are you still trying to be evasive?

	15-02-2003 14:06									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger BD, the support for the war has been decreasing. There will be massive protests even in the US cities.

Yep. You come across as an average American to me. I'm sure you have a firm grasp on public opinion in the lower 48. Or NOT.