16-02-2003 07:12									#241
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor The US will be the main target of this terrorism, but other countries will suffer from it too, no doubt.

See above. The Arabs know that we are not their enemy.

Now if you say the CIA might plant a bomb here to implicate Muslims, well, I canīt exclude that, with the US admin a criminal insane asylum this is a possibility...

	16-02-2003 07:16									#242
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No. The corporate media are just pulling figures out of their asses. The estimates I gave earlier are not the biggest ones. Athens f.e. has been reported to have had 300.000 and somebody even wrote about 400.000. Of course nobody agrees with that, but I can't buy the 100.000 given by the greek corporate media. I was there and I can compare with other situations. The Syntagma square used to get filled like this only during election speechesin the 80's, and then those media didn't shy at reporting one million people.

The most misreported demo must be that of Paris. I've heard everything between 100.000-800.000, while LeMonde gives 200.000, which is an underestimation.

NYC has been probably the most astonishing event of all: with all the prohibitions and scaremongering, they still managed to do wonders!

	16-02-2003 07:18									#243
	Millions of anti-war demonstrators rocked the world Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

At least 2000000 turned up in London They gathered in force in NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle and other US cities too. Millions more turned up in Spain to remind their government.

	16-02-2003 07:23									#244
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quote: Originally posted by axi The corporate media are just pulling figures out of their asses.

So you go to indymedia? That's like going to the forums at clearguidance.com for sane and honest commentary.

	16-02-2003 07:27									#245
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quote: Originally posted by axi NYC has been probably the most astonishing event of all: with all the prohibitions and scaremongering, they still managed to do wonders!

What prohibitions are these? People are just as free to peaceably assemble today as they were ten years ago.

	16-02-2003 07:39									#246
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The NYPD did wonders again, I hear...

quote: So you go to indymedia?

I trust the people. You trust Bush.

	16-02-2003 07:41									#247
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quote: Originally posted by axi I trust the people. You trust Bush.

Even che doesn't trust them as a credible source, axi.

	16-02-2003 07:56									#248
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When they are serious about it, they can be trusted much more than any government.

I wonder, if one decided to make worldwide pro-war rallies, how many people would they gather?

	16-02-2003 08:00									#249
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quote: I wonder, if one decided to make worldwide pro-war rallies, how many people would they gather?

I'm especially eager to know how many protesters there'll be in Baghdad

	16-02-2003 08:02									#250
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I'm especially eager to know how many protesters there'll be in Baghdad

Speaking of which, I'm somewhat shocked that Iraq could force more than the pittance they fielded at thier anti-war rally.

	16-02-2003 08:13									#251
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I'm especially eager to know how many protesters there'll be in Baghdad

	16-02-2003 08:55									#252
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quote: Originally posted by Sava And there's a huge consensus among the ignorant Hawks that anyone who's against military action as now proposed is against the removal of Saddam, or is a Saddam supporter.

Sava: The only one ignorant here is you for making that statement. Several people have tried to explain an idea to you and you keep spouting off with this garbage. Is it possible for you to debate without deliberately misrepresenting the facts of what the other side said?

	16-02-2003 08:57									#253
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quote: Originally posted by axi When they are serious about it, they can be trusted much more than any government.

So you admit that indymedia's record wrt the truth is spotty at best.

	16-02-2003 09:03									#254
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tribune Neither Iraq nor even OBL or whoever you have in mind has the slightest interest in harming Austria. That we are pro-Arab is more or less a given with all parties concerned.

OBL said everyone who doesn't convert to Islam is his enemy so until your on your knees facing Mecca five times a day then your a target.

	16-02-2003 09:07									#255
	Re: Millions of anti-war demonstrators rocked the world Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger At least 2000000 turned up in London They gathered in force in NYC, LA, Chicago, Seattle and other US cities too. Millions more turned up in Spain to remind their government.

The BBC's reported 750,000. So I'd say your 2million figure is mostly wishful thinking; BTW 750k= less then 1% of UK pop.

	16-02-2003 09:51									#256
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http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/uk.asp

750 000/58 789 194 = 1.276%

	16-02-2003 09:53									#257
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quote: David, your logic on what a government can and can't do or expect from its people is severely flawed. Government's primary function is to protect the people,

Wrong. Government's primary function is to prevent and punish the violation of individual rights.

quote: yet it can't require the people to participate in their own protection?

No, that would be a violation of the primary function of government.

quote: I agree with the notion that drafting for a foreign, political war (such as Vietnam) is wrong. But helping out an ally is a just cause.

Fine, then, smart guy. If you say the government's primary function is the protection of its own people, how is the US government protecting Americans by allying with some country like Kuwait or South Korea?

quote: Saying the British people had no obligation to help Poland after Hitler's invasion is just plain wrong.

No one ever has an obligation to die for another person.

quote: You always complain about how the poor benefit from taxes that are stolen from the rich, yet your position here is completely hypocritical. The people benefit from the protection of the government, yet don't have to contribute to it?

Again, how does it benefit the people of Britain to ally with Poland, rather than with Nazi Germany? Not that I'm saying the British should ally with the Nazis, just that it would seem more beneficial to ally with a strong country than a weak one, no?

quote: Mandatory military service and the draft are sometimes necessary and completely justified.

Bullshit.

quote: Your assertion that they are wrong in such a general way is wrong, and given your stance on taxes, completely hypocritical.

No, I'm not being hypocritical, if anyone is, you are.

	16-02-2003 10:07									#258
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Hey, hey, hey, let's keep the hypocrite accusations to the libertarian threads please.

	16-02-2003 10:11									#259
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*shrug* He started it.

	16-02-2003 10:16									#260
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I'm just having fun with ya Floyd.

	16-02-2003 10:55									#261
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Well, the vocal minority make their voices heard. Though, I'm guessing the silent majority (in the US) will have their way in the end.

	16-02-2003 10:58									#262
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I think most of these protesters could care less about the actual peace part of it.

Alot of them are just in it for the kicks of making witty signs and feeling important.

But hey actor Tim Robbins says no war so that changed my mind. yeah right

	16-02-2003 11:12									#263
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I think most of these protesters could care less about the actual peace part of it. Alot of them are just in it for the kicks of making witty signs and feeling important. But hey actor Tim Robbins says no war so that changed my mind. yeah right

You have absolutely no idea, do you?


PS. And there is no "silent majority" - there never is - it's just a conservative creation.

	16-02-2003 11:19									#264
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I'd say there is a silent majority. The big media states like California and New York create alot of what people precieve to be American public opinion but then theres all those people living in the states in between who often don't agree with the stances taken in the media.

	16-02-2003 11:36									#265
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quote: And there is no "silent majority" - there never is - it's just a conservative creation.

Um... what have you been smoking?

When poll numbers say 55% are pro war, you think some idiot teens on the street represent the majority? Ya gotta be kidding me!

Nixon gets elected to the White House and you think there is no silent majority? What are you nuts?!

quote: I'd say there is a silent majority. The big media states like California and New York create alot of what people precieve to be American public opinion but then theres all those people living in the states in between who often don't agree with the stances taken in the media.

Living in the South now allows me to apprechiate this much better. People just don't agree with "New York" and "Hollywood".

	16-02-2003 13:43									#266
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Was in NY today. My personal guess is that 300k showed up, but its ridiculously hard to make any kind of half-way accurate estimate since we didn't have a march permit so lots of people were scattered all over the place or strung out on sidewalks. Wesleyan managed to live up to its reputation and we went a full 8 busloads of people as well as plenty in cars. The whole place was insanely crowded the whole time, to the extent that we couldn't even really get Wes people together but that didn't stop us from getting a good samba band going

	16-02-2003 13:50									#267
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any news stories on this?

I don't think anyone protested in Las Vegas. Although I missed the beginning of the late news.

	16-02-2003 21:32									#268
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui [q]When poll numbers say 55% are pro war, you think some idiot teens on the street represent the majority? Ya gotta be kidding me!

I distrust polls to the same extent that I distrust "TV audience figures" - they are all extrapolated from a very small polling audience indeed. If you have only a 1000 people polled then you're using for Britain just 0.0017% of the population to reflect the whole country. Naturally this is pretty awful methodology to use these stats as facts.

Problem is whilst more people polled increases accuracy, it quickly becomes impractical.

Sorry, I'm in a sunday afternoon pedantic mood.

	16-02-2003 21:37									#269
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quote: Originally posted by Demerzel Naturally this is pretty awful methodology to use these stats as facts.

How so?

	16-02-2003 21:47									#270
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read what I just said ffs. Using 0.0017% ( 1000 from 60m ) of a population as that nation's choice is just asking for an insane statistical slew.

It'd be like asking 100 people on here their thoughts and using that as the poll for a world opinion.