15-02-2003 10:01									#1
	What do you consider to be the most progressiven nation? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

By progressive, I mean based on how far a nation has gone to address societal problems, ensuring justice, distribution of wealth without destroying the incentive for individual ambition, and ensuring equal rights for all citizens regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, religion, and sexual orientation.

I suppose there really is no stopping people from voting purely on patriotic grounds, but could you TRY to look at facts about another nation, that you do not live in before voting?

If after doing that, you decide to vote your own country for other than patriotic reasons, that's fine.

At this point, I really can't decide -- maybe after I hear from Apolytoners from around the world, I can decide.

	15-02-2003 10:12									#2
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SWEDEN!!!

	15-02-2003 10:14									#3
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Ok -- on what grounds, Odin?

	15-02-2003 10:22									#4
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Hmmm, state mandated and generally accepted multiculturalism, gay marriage, universal health care, yet still a capital driven economy, and probably a few other things. Yup, Canada.

	15-02-2003 10:26									#5
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Norway,

We were looking at a UN development index the other day and I think they were the highest. They also have the highest GDP per capita.

	15-02-2003 10:27									#6
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Ok -- on what grounds, Odin?

It is strongly Socialist.

	15-02-2003 10:29									#7
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Hmmm, state mandated and generally accepted multiculturalism, gay marriage, universal health care, yet still a capital driven economy, and probably a few other things. Yup, Canada.

Sounds good to me.

But with gay marriage -- obviously you mean secular, civil unions, since religious demominations cannot be forced by governments to change their positions, no matter how wrongly based they are.

	15-02-2003 10:30									#8
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They also have the highest GDP per capita.

No they don't.

	15-02-2003 10:30									#9
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Odin,

it's not because you're Swedish is it?

	15-02-2003 10:30									#10
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"What do you consider to be the most progressiven nation?"

I take it you think Germany?

	15-02-2003 10:30									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK Norway, We were looking at a UN development index the other day and I think they were the highest. They also have the highest GDP per capita.

How accurate does GDP represent true wealth distribution within a nation though?

	15-02-2003 10:31									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Sounds good to me. But with gay marriage -- obviously you mean secular, civil unions, since religious demominations cannot be forced by governments to change their positions, no matter how wrongly based they are.

Certain churches in Canada accept them and will perform rituals. And get this, they have female priests!

	15-02-2003 10:32									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DanS They also have the highest GDP per capita. No they don't.

I didn't count Luxenburg.

	15-02-2003 10:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov "What do you consider to be the most progressiven nation?" I take it you think Germany?

Actually, that is a typo -- it would be a nice favor of Ming if he would correct that.

Now that you posted in here Boris, what is your opinion?

	15-02-2003 10:34									#15
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun How accurate does GDP represent true wealth distribution within a nation though?

I just remember learning that they have good social programs there. True it doesn't have anything to do with distribution, but it could be a sign of good opportunity for people.

	15-02-2003 10:35									#16
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I didn't count Luxenburg.

Use the PPP numbers.

	15-02-2003 10:35									#17
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun How accurate does GDP represent true wealth distribution within a nation though?

You compare the mean (average) income with the median income. The closer the more even.

	15-02-2003 10:37									#18
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I knew someone would pick the US. Probably DanS

	15-02-2003 10:38									#19
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ok, Urban Ranger

	15-02-2003 10:38									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I didn't count Luxenburg. Use the PPP numbers.

Why, because that makes the US look better?

	15-02-2003 10:39									#21
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Real wages and employment rate would be good.

	15-02-2003 10:39									#22
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Sweden and the Netherlands. I'd rather live in Sweden, though.

	15-02-2003 10:41									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK Why, because that makes the US look better?

Stop in your tracks right there -- he might have had a legitimate, objective reason and even without knowing his reason, you're assuming it's a chauvinistic reason.

Let's try to refrain from making this an anti-American thread, or anti-any nation thread, for that matter.

	15-02-2003 10:42									#24
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quote: Originally posted by orange Sweden and the Netherlands. I'd rather live in Sweden, though.

why?

	15-02-2003 10:45									#25
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I'd say the US, just because the US has the least amount of wealth transfer programs, and thus, relatively speaking, more justice.

	15-02-2003 10:50									#26
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DF,

Oh transfer payments. Like interest on government securities?

	15-02-2003 10:53									#27
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun why?

because ideologically it's right in line with my views, has a high standard of living, hasn't been in a war in nearly two centuries, and takes care of its citizens effectively. It is a living breathing example of how social democracy CAN work.

	15-02-2003 10:53									#28
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Stop in your tracks right there -- he might have had a legitimate, objective reason and even without knowing his reason, you're assuming it's a chauvinistic reason. Let's try to refrain from making this an anti-American thread, or anti-any nation thread, for that matter.

I'm American. But I'm just trying to get a reaction out of him. America has a lot of points, but to say it's the most progressive nation is quite a stretch. You know he was asking for some flack.

	15-02-2003 10:53									#29
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No, as in transferring my money to someone who didn't earn it.

	15-02-2003 10:56									#30
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd No, as in transferring my money to someone who didn't earn it.

if, when you get older, you become unemployed - will you file for and accept welfare checks?