15-02-2003 19:00									#1
	ELECTION: Term 3 Minister of Defence Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

ELECTION: Term 3 Minister of Defence

Dear Apolemurians,

this election is to vote for a new Minister of Defence, who will serve one month in office.

We have three persons competing for this office:
Turambar
Pedrunn
Zaphod

Therefore the poll will have four options, with the meaning:

Turambar = You want to elect Turambar as our Minister of Defence
Pedrunn = You want to elect Pedrunn as our Minister of Defence
Zaphod = You want to elect Zaphod as our Minister of Defence
Abstain = You don't care.

This poll will expire in 5 days on the 20th February 2003, 14:00 GMT.

In the name of our constitution and the name of our people, Senior Justice Gilgamensch

	15-02-2003 20:44									#2
	Suffering from ads?

though this poll seems a bit wrong, i'm pleased by the fact that the whole nations sees me as a friend by calling me by my first name, and don't have any objections against this

yours,
zaphod beeblebrox

	15-02-2003 23:31									#3
	Support Apolyton

let's see some campaigning. I'm especially interested in how the War Party candidates are going to differintiate themselves

	16-02-2003 01:12									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I already voted for Turambar, God help us if we have a peace monger as MoD, and i cant see any reason to elect a new person yet. Would have been more interesting if one of them to run as opposition in the boring single candidate elections.

	16-02-2003 03:57									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

since maq started it, the WP will all vote for Turambar

	16-02-2003 05:52									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

I would like to make a speech:

"Many of you may ask why to vote on me. And I shouldl say why!
What i bring for all of the citizens of lemuria as a Minister of Defense is a democracy. In another words discussions, official poll and debates threads about the moving of our units. This is exacly the thing i miss frim our previous ministers of Defense. Including Turambar the current one.

I would like you all to see numbers in the Directory of Lemuria to prove that what i am saying. While Turambar was only resposible for 1 official poll and 1 empire discussion throug his 3 week term. Since thre are 5 minister the numbers of threads started by me shoul be 1/5 (20%). But as you can see I was responsible 75% (6/8) of the official polls and 80% (4/5) of the empire dicussion threads in the first term. And the these numbers didnt decrease so much this term. Since i was resposible for 50% (4/8) of the official polls and 34% (3/10) of the empire discussions. Not counting the last week in which would bump up my numbers.

Enough with the numbers!!! I think I have made my ponit.
My search is for democracy. A willing of giving the citizens the chance to discuss and oppinate about the decisions of our country. And I put my hand in the fire if someone proves a day where i did not do that! So are you willing to choose a candidate who you know was not responsible for the war discussions even in our fight against Austria. Other people had to start polling about (thanks Locutus here, mrbaggins here and even me here) for spreading democracy since our candidate didnt want to do so (note he didnt even participate of those threads )! Or will you choose the candidate who was against the spread of our empire after all who would say our empire has grown ages with the attacks!

A previous of what i want is this thread in which was created by me because the minister of Defense, Turambar, didnt. As you can see the plan was not the best or the one used in the attack to Austria but it was deep discussed until reached the attack plan used in the attack in which i changed my mind exacly because of this dicussion. What if Turambar plans were not the best and we could come up with a better one if we have discussed about it. To prevent this possibility i am a candidated as minister of defense.

To bring to the people the word to say what he thinks and debate to come up with the best plan, the plan of the community, and not just the plan of the MoD!!!

Long Life to the Democracy!"

I hope i have made my poit on discussions clear

"And I would like to add that I am on vacation and if anyone tells me I am a absent citizen in the weekend around here to speack about it now!!! I really doubt someones does it. I am here daily and daily my post are here! No wonder my posting rate is about 3.45 a day! And all these posts comes from the CTP2 forums saving rare exceptions."


So vote for a more active and democratic MoD! Vote for me!!!

Pedrunn is the name.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 16-02-2003 at 06:22

	16-02-2003 06:03									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: since maq started it, the WP will all vote for Turambar

I am a WP memebr too .
And even for those who dont like the WP, vote concient. Vote in a democracy. Vote Pedrunn for president!

The proof is in my spech. And i believe one people should be labeled by a party. One citizen is a ctizen with his ideas and opinions. Choose the one you thinks the best and not the one others think to be the best

	16-02-2003 07:23									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Good speech Pedrunn! You certainly do make a valid point! I would be interested on the further plan with Austria. How long should we battle them? Can we afford to weaken defences in order to take more of their cities? Should we enslave some cities to weaken their defenses whenever we reached the city limit or absolutely reached our defence limits?
Same questions go to the other canditates as well.

	16-02-2003 08:42									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by mapfi Same questions go to the other canditates as well.

Great a debate. Lets begin with it! ( Please read my speech first otherwise you wont understand some notes)

First i would like to say that the words i write here are my plan to destroy the Austrians. And this plan should be deeply discussed to reach achive the best plan ever. It may have mistakes but again my political campaign is based on possible changes in this plan through discussions.

quote: How long should we battle them?

I dont want to measure the time of the war in terms of turns. But in in conquest. As i see we shouldnt send our troops to Wien neither beyond. So once we conquere Graz, Wels and Lins should be the max time we could spend in this war. But the War could end earlier due to the course of events, lenght of he war and the public oppinion (of course).

quote: Can we afford to weaken defences in order to take more of their cities?

I want to propose that: All cities must have an archer and a hoplite. Pedrunnia must have two hoplites and a archer. All attacks will begun after that achievement.

In Colonia Locuta we must have the 'East Army' fortified. An army that will be there serve as a source of garrison units, to defend cities at east and counter attack in case of the worst case scenario.

we must set up in H Town an attack with the a new army called 'West Army'. And send to Graz only after we have enough units (needs to be dicussed) and if not done until the next chats of this term.
We will not only will conquer the city but make the city be used as fort for the 'West Army' against a possible Austrian attack and defend the cities at west.

quote: Should we enslave some cities to weaken their defenses whenever we reached the city limit or absolutely reached our defence limits?

If we have a slave (this has to be discussed with the MoDA)
I propose: We shall only use slaves in cities of civs we are at war. And not in possible targets like Wels and Lins. So if the war of the Austrians dures that much (we still need to research jurisprudence and probably Drama) i think Wiens are the best target.

Note: The uses of wors like 'I propose', 'If', 'Probably', 'Public oppinion', 'Need to be discussed' are part of my proposal as MoD.

Every one of these decision are just draft in which may be totally thrown away or improved since i want to discuss about as much as i can.

	16-02-2003 16:36									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well,well - an archer and a hoplite is a pretty weak defence, only barbs will be fended off with that - but that's totally my opinion. We should take as many cities from the Austrians away as we can. We need to cripple them or otherwise they'll fight back with force and don't forget production and PW bonus is on their side. That's why I also think we should at least consider to enslave some cities after we have acquired the number of cities we can seriously defend. We wouldn't need a slaver for that, neither the advance Slave Labour - Martin's city capture code would allow us to do it right now.
I'm eagerly awaiting the other contestents' opinions.

	16-02-2003 17:02									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by mapfi Well,well - an archer and a hoplite is a pretty weak defence, only barbs will be fended off with that - but that's totally my opinion.

I would like to remember that this is the minimum prerequisite we must have to start attack. We are attacking the Austiran leaving in Pedrunnia and mapfipolis less then this.
And thats part of the plan of keeping two huge armies defending the cities and making sure they reach the threatened city in time rather then have several minor ones in every city. It also makes the defense of TI faster assuming we will have some more in this term to come since we dont need to join units together to attack the pillager
But if most people the plan will be changed of course just like mrbaggins did in this thread to me. As i said i dont want to make a Pedrunn military system but a community one.

MISTAKE: The proposed 'East Army' should be placed in Colonia Locuta and not in mapfipolis. I edited my post!

quote: We should take as many cities from the Austrians away as we can. We need to cripple them or otherwise they'll fight back with force and don't forget production and PW bonus is on their side.

Send a attack to Wiens may leave our cities defenseless. It is eight turns to reach there and we still will have to send our units back. But could be done if most agree. Attacks to Salzburg, Praha, Pilsen and far cities are something i dont see coming. Just to dangerous to send our units there.

quote: That's why I also think we should at least consider to enslave some cities after we have acquired the number of cities we can seriously defend. We wouldn't need a slaver for that, neither the advance Slave Labour - Martin's city capture code would allow us to do it right now.

Sorry i misunderstood you i thought you meant the use of slavers. If the people do think the best is to swap all cities (I dont). Can be sure i will make official threads to enslave cities after Wien like Salzburg, Praha and Pilsen. They will only low our happiness due empire distace unhappiness and weaken our defenses (note even if we have roads by that time the regions is mostly hills and those would cost too much) otherwise we may have to create a capitol in Graz (This is a MoDA issue BTW)!

	16-02-2003 17:13									#12
	Tired of ads?

Addition to enslave.

Enslavement should not be done in the next targets. Including Graz and Linz. Those cities have good placement. Wels should not be enslave but disbanded (if agreed by the MoDA) or kept (It does have good site compared to others of the same region). Disbanded because i still think we should continue our settling expansion. Specially in sites at south (2 cities at least- potato and hill site) and north (1 city at least- date/plains site) of Pedrunnia. But of course this must be talked together with the MoDA and the plan by the people. Others Austrian cities are good candidates.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 16-02-2003 at 17:28

	16-02-2003 17:33									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ZAPHOD! ZAPHOD!

	17-02-2003 04:40									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

where is every one? only 5 votes?

	17-02-2003 04:56									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

They're eagerly awaiting my speech which I shall make tommorrow.

	17-02-2003 05:14									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

A proof of the lack of discussion can ruin the game. Turambar, the current Minister of Defense did not dicuss about the idea of send a suicide warrior to Graz to know how many unit there were in the city. We had to spend discussing about this while we should have done it during the week (he had six days do so) with a simple poll and he didnt. We ended up sending the warrior back to H Town since most agree the idea was not good.

I am not questioning Turambar decisions but this could have been avoided with a single poll. The community was going to come up with the best option for the warrior. Probably explore north to Pressburg in which it was sent to do now. after stupidily moving to Graz and back to H Town.

If i do not get elected. Please minister this serves as construtive critics to all specially the new ones. You guys need to explain the people what you want to do. At least give the guidelines to the President This critic is not only for Turambar but to all miniters too.

I know how this lack of guidelines can harm the game. After all i am the current President!

Last edited by Pedrunn on 17-02-2003 at 08:06

	18-02-2003 02:41									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I voted for Pedrunn on this one, just so he wouldn't have to feel the fall in living standards he was used to as President - not straight away atleast! And i was worried if Turambar was too busy his excellent stories might start to fade into our distant history
Just a thought do we have easy to access info on which candidates have served in which positions? I just want to be fair and give everyone a go at something(and i tend to forget who's done what).

	18-02-2003 02:49									#18
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Just a thought do we have easy to access info on which candidates have served in which positions? I just want to be fair and give everyone a go at something(and i tend to forget who's done what).

They are listed in the government announcements thread (by Locutus, a few posts down).

	18-02-2003 05:05									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I regret to inform everyone that I'm pulling out of this election. I've a load of university work piling up, amongst other things (CM4 comes out soon ) and simply don't have the time at the moment to give this job the time / thought it needs.

I've no idea what the Con says about pulling out of elections (if this thread just continues or has to be restarted) but I'm happy to continue in the role of MoD whilst this election is still going.

I also wish to urge everyone to vote for Pedrunn as the new MoD!

	18-02-2003 06:36									#20
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

then someone needs to change his votes to Pedrunn (that includes mine)

althought Pedrunn will still very likely win

	18-02-2003 19:07									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

greetings fellow people of lemuria,
at first i have to apologize, i haven't held this speech earlier, i was kept away by some constitutional discussion, as you might have noticed as well as - and that was a much stronger reason - due to a little malady i had. the doctors diagnosted it as a "contempory lack of ctp2" in my system. but that has been cured. my best and thankful wishes to the wise staff of the pedrunnic memorial hospital.
i also wish to thank turambar, for his services to our country. though i have disagreed with him sometime, i respect him as a honorable person, and hope he will be back with time and health soon. and of course, i want to thank my competitioner pedrunn, for the great services as our president.

which brings me to the first point of my speech:
pedrunn says, that all decisions have to be discussed and decided upon in a free and democratic manner. well, there's not much to say about, except he's damn' right. i intend to do the same, since, you -the people- have to decide, and the ministers have to enact your will. as it was done, when the majority of you cried for war. you know, i was strongly opposing this, but now, that has been decided. what has this war brought us so far? two new and great cities, that will benefit our nation in growing, in size, in population, in military might, and sometimes later as well in scientific research. so far, we all agree. but what else did this war bring to us? an open flank and a dire enemy! yes, now our territory is greater, but so are our borders. at the time i'm writing this, our great army has to protect the borders all the way from pedrunnia, our beautifull capitol to the new and prospering town of pressburg. already fears have risen in our nation, that the austrains might sneak to pedrunnia through the unguarded wilderness to the northwest. so what can be done, to prevent this? well, there are several ways, one can thing of. one, which seems to be the most popular in the decreasing ranks of the warmongerers, would be to take all troops, amass them and capture graz, which is in a strategic position, roughly halfway between the austrian capitol wien and our own, situated at a river, which allows for quick unit transfers from or to wien, linz and pilsen. of course, it would be great if we could conqueor that important place. but can we do now? only if we weaken the defenses of our cities, and even then, its doubtful. and we have to remember, its not just taking graz, its also about defending it against the reinforcements from wien, pilsen and linz. so this can't be a shorttime solution. another idea of course would be, to seek for peace with austria, and i wouldn't be surprised, if thats what some of you expect from me and my "peacenicks", as the app has been called. i assure you, though i want peace, i don't want it now! we have teached the austrians already, that peace with us means only time for building up our own troops before we go for another raid against their towns. so even if the accepted (which i rather doubt, btw) they wouldn't trust us, which also means we couldn't trust them. and we still were suffering from our open flank in the west. peace shall not be made, until we at least get hold of graz, and even better wien as well. so, how can we capture graz, if we aren't attacking? i don't say, we shouldn't attack. i say instead attack later, and with a force, strong enough to capture graz, hold it, and even march on to another town of theirs! meanwhile we have to build up further units for defence. the 3 warriors we have, should be used as scouts in the border area, to get early views of austrian counterstrikes. this will enable us to replace forces in response to a possible attack on the river.
i guess that answers the question by honorable mapfi, about how we should battle the austrians: until we have got at least the keytown of graz, even better their capitol.

another question raised was, if we should attack further towns for enslavement when we have reached the maximum number of cities, our bureaucrats can handle. well, that is a difficult question right now. in general i would say yes. yes if
- if we still have an army capable of doing so after winning the important battles. we shouldn't further neglect the construction of infrastructure in our lands and our cities for gaining some extra workers and a bad reputation
- if the austrians don't agree to peace after we will have taken their cities at our borders
- if we aren't standing near to a major breakthrough in the scientific art of government, which will allow us to wield more cities soon.
- if we don't have anything more important for our army to do then.

but this is still some way to go, and other ifs might appear on that way.

i thank you for your audience. may our nation prosper in wealth, welfare, and peace as well, when it can be made safely. the holy apolyton be with you.

	19-02-2003 14:49									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

*applause*

	19-02-2003 22:41									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

*switches the mic on* okay can you do that one more time?

	19-02-2003 23:09									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora *switches the mic on* okay can you do that one more time?

my speech?

	20-02-2003 06:36									#25
	Tired of ads?

nice joke.......that is, if ur j/k

but remember that Pedrunn has it in the bag (i hope)

	20-02-2003 19:44									#26
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Congrats Pedrunn!!

*hands over keys to the MoD office and the secret cover up documents*

	20-02-2003 20:11									#27
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Election is finished.

Congratulation Pedrunn.