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Seeker is offline Seeker
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London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:26
  Old Post 04-03-2003 16:22 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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Actually, from what I can understand, the US/SK plan for dealing with the large mass of artillery is to use a big integrated system they've had for a while that works like this:

-very accurate radar tracks data on incoming shells
-computers calaculate the exact position of the origin using this data (fast)
-rocket artillery goes to this destination

This is part of an integrated system that the SKs and USA forces train very hard to make work quickly and reliably. It can turn the balance of artillery superiority faster than flying around trying to find artillery firing pits.

The North lacks the sophisticated radar, computers, and 'integrated systems' necessary to pull off something like this so they basically can't fight a sustained war.

Unfortunately, the NKs do have enough artillery to just 'brute force' this system for possibly quite a few weeks, especially if they use some tactics like sacrificing their artillery in sections to get maximum use, or if their spies are accurate enough to find a good chunk of the mobile rocket artillery launchers.

Even if they just fire where they are targeted now (seoul) and then get totally blown away by the response within a few days, they still have enough to level Seoul, which is the area where I and 47% of the population live.

Ned is offline Ned
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 04-03-2003 17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
Actually, from what I can understand, the US/SK plan for dealing with the large mass of artillery is to use a big integrated system they've had for a while that works like this:

-very accurate radar tracks data on incoming shells
-computers calaculate the exact position of the origin using this data (fast)
-rocket artillery goes to this destination

This is part of an integrated system that the SKs and USA forces train very hard to make work quickly and reliably. It can turn the balance of artillery superiority faster than flying around trying to find artillery firing pits.

The North lacks the sophisticated radar, computers, and 'integrated systems' necessary to pull off something like this so they basically can't fight a sustained war.

Unfortunately, the NKs do have enough artillery to just 'brute force' this system for possibly quite a few weeks, especially if they use some tactics like sacrificing their artillery in sections to get maximum use, or if their spies are accurate enough to find a good chunk of the mobile rocket artillery launchers.

Even if they just fire where they are targeted now (seoul) and then get totally blown away by the response within a few days, they still have enough to level Seoul, which is the area where I and 47% of the population live.


This is not acceptable at all -- especially in the face of their outrageous belligerence.

Rather than simply talk of NK nuke disarmament, we need to talk about removing that artillery and reducing forces. I don't know how the South can have any discussions with the North about appeasement so long as they remain poised to decimate Seoul.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
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pff. good luck with trying to convince the madman that he really isn't ever going to be under attack.

he remains convinced that the united states is out to get him, no matter what we do; his regime is propped up by his massive military.

i don't see any way we can get rid of that.

DanS is offline DanS
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There's a way to do it, but it takes a while. Do a mass population shift from NK to SK.

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also fraught with difficulty. can't go through the DMZ, and now they can't go through china, not really. japan is out of the question, as is russia...

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 04-03-2003 23:39 Visit DanS's homepage!
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and now they can't go through china, not really

Doesn't seem like SK has asked China too hard.

This feckless policy perplexes me.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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United States of America
Feb 2000
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This just keeps getting worse and worse. How can you expect to get away with demanding economic aid (blackmail) and a non-aggression treaty with all the name-calling and provocations of late (the four NK interceptor jets).

I also learned today that the last time NK intercepted a US surveillance plane, in 1969, they shot it down, killing all 39 people aboard. If that were to happen today, there would likely be repercussions.

Some days, I just wanna stay in bed. **sigh**

Gatekeeper

ranskaldan is offline ranskaldan
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Sep 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
There's a way to do it, but it takes a while. Do a mass population shift from NK to SK.


Assuming that China agrees to this...

Kim would panic and fire his artillery and missiles at all directions, SK, Japan, including China...

which is why China wouldn't agree in the first place.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kim would panic and fire his artillery and missiles at all directions, SK, Japan, including China...

Why's that?

DaShi is offline DaShi
Prince
The Taste of Japan
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 01:33
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Kim won't provoke the Chinese. In fact, he probably wants to keep China out of it for as long as possible. Once an actual war breaks out, he'll then try to bring in China on his side. China having a role any earlier would be detrimental to him. Hence, his request for US only talks.

ranskaldan is offline ranskaldan
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Sep 2001
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quote:
Why's that?

Because it would then be obvious that his regime is crumbling. That's what he saved his artillery for.

quote:
Kim won't provoke the Chinese. In fact, he probably wants to keep China out of it for as long as possible. Once an actual war breaks out, he'll then try to bring in China on his side. China having a role any earlier would be detrimental to him. Hence, his request for US only talks.


Ugh, no way we're going in there ever again.

In addition to being crass, a war with any one country out of SK, Japan, or the US would be suicide for China.

DanS is offline DanS
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Because it would then be obvious that his regime is crumbling.

I still don't get it. One doesn't flow from the other. There would be nothing he would gain by letting the missiles fly.

To hear you tell it, we have to be in perpetual fear of him and prop his regime up until his natural death.

No thanks.

ixnay is offline ixnay
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Jan 1970
time: 22:26
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From the CNN.com breaking news bar at the top:

U.S. deploying 24 long-range bombers to Pacific as a deterrent to North Korea to take advantage of Iraqi situation, officials say. Details soon.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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ranskaldan is offline ranskaldan
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 03:41
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS

I still don't get it. One doesn't flow from the other. There would be nothing he would gain by letting the missiles fly.


That's why they aren't flying. And if a refugee channel is set up that seriously undermines his regime, then he would have nothing to lose and the missiles would fly.

quote:
To hear you tell it, we have to be in perpetual fear of him and prop his regime up until his natural death.

No thanks.


What do you think NK was trying to do at Sinuiju? At Kaesong? These are the first steps of NK venturing out into the world.

Heck, this is how China started.

panag is offline panag
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 21:43 Visit panag's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by ixnay
From the CNN.com breaking news bar at the top:

U.S. deploying 24 long-range bombers to Pacific as a deterrent to North Korea to take advantage of Iraqi situation, officials say. Details soon.



hi ,

24 b-52's and some b1's , ....

have a nice day

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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Evil Empire
Dec 2002
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:08
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And they are only considering sending fighter escort. I don't get that. I guess the South Koreans and Japanese have fighter escorts for them.

Arrian is offline Arrian
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:11
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Got spare money?

I assume we already have fighter wings over there, Duncan.

-Arrian

panag is offline panag
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:15 Visit panag's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DuncanK
And they are only considering sending fighter escort. I don't get that. I guess the South Koreans and Japanese have fighter escorts for them.



hi ,

a b52 does not need an escort , .....

have a nice day

Andrew1999 is offline Andrew1999
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:25
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If they are launching cruise missiles they probably don't need escorts since they will be hundreds of miles away from Korea. They can probably take off from Guam, launch, and land without ever leaving US airspace.

DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:27
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b52s fly so high enough to avoid danger maybe.

panag is offline panag
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quote:
Originally posted by DuncanK
b52s fly so high enough to avoid danger maybe.


hi ,

indeed , and with those new bombs nowadays , ......

nothing that can hit it in the north korean arsenal , .....

they shall never know what hit them , .....

" have a nice day "

Attachment: b52-bomb.jpg
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panag is offline panag
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:33 Visit panag's homepage!
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hi ,

all the types of what it can use , .....

have a nice day

Attachment: b-52_11.jpg
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DuncanK is offline DuncanK
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:43
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Can a b52 carry all of that at once, or just one row at a time?

Seeker is offline Seeker
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:45 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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The b-52 is still a little vulnerable to good missiles. It shows up on radar.

That's why the Americans have stealth bombers. If the B-52 was invincible there would be no point in having stealth bombers.

It is the best deal for delivering lots and lots of bomb, but it is not very stealthy.

Of course, it can also stand off and launch cruise missiles, which B-52s did against Yugoslavia, in which case it doesn't matter.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 22:48 Visit DanS's homepage!
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then he would have nothing to lose and the missiles would fly

This is frustrating. You have yet to make a case in any of these threads on what he would gain by doing so.

These are the first steps of NK venturing out into the world.

We've been through this before. It's almost as if everybody in the region wants NK to continue to be a huge problem, because it isn't going to be solved for many decades at this rate. China has never been this fvcked up.

panag is offline panag
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 23:01 Visit panag's homepage!
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The B-52H BUFF [Big Ugly Fat Fellow] is the primary nuclear roled bomber in the USAF inventory. It provides the only Air Launch Cruise Missile carriage in the USAF. The B-52H also provides theater CINCs with a long range strike capability. The bomber is capable of flying at high subsonic speeds at altitudes up to 50,000 feet (15,166.6 meters). It can carry nuclear or conventional ordnance with worldwide precision navigation capability.
The aircraft's flexibility was evident during the Vietnam War and, again, in Operation Desert Storm. B-52s struck wide-area troop concentrations, fixed installations and bunkers, and decimated the morale of Iraq's Republican Guard. The Gulf War involved the longest strike mission in the history of aerial warfare when B-52s took off from Barksdale Air Force Base, La., launched conventional air launched cruise missiles and returned to Barksdale -- a 35-hour, non-stop combat mission.

A total of 744 B-52s were built with the last, a B-52H, delivered in October 1962. Only the H model is still in the Air Force inventory and all are assigned to Air Combat Command. The first of 102 B-52H's was delivered to Strategic Air Command in May 1961. The H model can carry up to 20 air launched cruise missiles. In addition, it can carry the conventional cruise missile which was launched from B-52G models during Desert Storm.


Barksdale AFB, LA and Minot AFB, ND serves as B-52 Main Operating Bases (MOB). Training missions are flown from both MOBs. Barksdale AFB and Minot AFB normally supports 57 and 36 aircraft respectively on-station.


Features
In a conventional conflict, the B-52H can perform air interdiction, offensive counter-air and maritime operations. During Desert Storm, B-52s delivered 40 percent of all the weapons dropped by coalition forces. It is highly effective when used for ocean surveillance, and can assist the U.S. Navy in anti-ship and mine-laying operations. Two B-52s, in two hours, can monitor 140,000 square miles (364,000 square kilometers) of ocean surface.

Starting in 1989, an on-going modification incorporates the global positioning system, heavy stores adaptor beams for carrying 2,000 pound munitions and additional smart weapons capability. All aircraft are being modified to carry the AGM-142 Raptor missile and AGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missile.


The B-52H was designed for nuclear standoff, but it now has the conventional warfare mission role with the retirement of the B-52G’s. The B-52 can carry different kinds of external pylons under its wings.
The AGM-28 pylon can carry lighter weapons like the MK-82 and can carry 12 weapons on each pylon, for a total of 24 external weapons. With the carriage of 27 internal weapons, the total is 51.
Heavy Stores Adaptor Beam [HSAB] external pylon can carry heavier weapons rated up to 2000 lbs. However, each HSAB can carry only 9 weapons which decreases the total carry to 45 (18 external).
A third type pylon is used for carrying ALCMs/CALCMs/ACMs.
So the B-52 can carry a maximum of either 51 or 45 munitions, depending on which pylon is mounted under the wings. However, the AGM-28 pylon is no longer used, so the B-52 currently carries on HSABs, limiting the external load to 18 bombs, or a total of 45 bombs.
The use of aerial refueling gives the B-52 a range limited only by crew endurance. It has an unrefueled combat range in excess of 8,800 miles (14,080 kilometers).

All B-52s are equipped with an electro-optical viewing system that uses platinum silicide forward-looking infrared and high resolution low-light-level television sensors to augment the targeting, battle assessment, flight safety and terrain-avoidance system, thus further improving its combat ability and low-level flight capability.

Pilots wear night vision goggles (NVGs) to enhance their night visual, low-level terrain-following operations. Night vision goggles provide greater safety during night operations by increasing the pilot's ability to visually clear terrain and avoid enemy radar.

Current B-52H crew size is five. Pilot and co-pilot are side by side on the upper flight deck, along with the electronic warfare officer (EWO), seated behind the pilot facing aft.



hi ,

try to get one , those babies fly at more then 50 000 feet , .....

have a nice day

panag is offline panag
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hi ,

a good link for more info ; www.stratofortress.org

enjoy

have a nice day

panag is offline panag
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 23:04 Visit panag's homepage!
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USAF Fact Sheet

B-52 Stratofortress


Mission
Air Combat Command's B-52 is a long-range, heavy bomber that can perform a variety of missions. The bomber is capable of flying at high subsonic speeds at altitudes up to 50,000 feet (15,166.6 meters). It can carry nuclear or precision guided conventional ordnance with worldwide precision navigation capability.

Features
In a conventional conflict, the B-52 can perform strategic attack, air interdiction, offensive counter-air and maritime operations. During Desert Storm, B-52s delivered 40 percent of all the weapons dropped by coalition forces. It is highly effective when used for ocean surveillance, and can assist the U.S. Navy in anti-ship and mine-laying operations. Two B-52s, in two hours, can monitor 140,000 square miles (364,000 square kilometers) of ocean surface.

All B-52s are equipped with an electro-optical viewing system that uses platinum silicide forward-looking infrared and high resolution low-light-level television sensors to augment targeting, battle assessment, and flight safety, thus further improving its combat ability and low-level flight capability.

Pilots wear night vision goggles (NVGs) to enhance their vision during night operations. Night vision goggles provide greater safety during night operations by increasing the pilot's ability to visually clear terrain, avoid enemy radar and see other aircraft in a covert/lights-out environment.

Starting in 1989, on-going modifications incorporates the global positioning system, heavy stores adapter beams for carrying 2,000 pound munitions, and a full array of advance weapons currently under development.

The use of aerial refueling gives the B-52 a range limited only by crew endurance. It has an unrefueled combat range in excess of 8,800 miles (14,080 kilometers).

The aircraft's flexibility was evident in Operation Desert Storm and again during Operations Allied Force. B-52s struck wide-area troop concentrations, fixed installations and bunkers, and decimated the morale of Iraq's Republican Guard. The Gulf War involved the longest strike mission in the history of aerial warfare when B-52s took off from Barksdale Air Force Base, La., launched conventional air launched cruise missiles and returned to Barksdale -- a 35-hour, non-stop combat mission. During Operation Allied Force, B-52s opened the conflict with conventional cruise missile attacks and then transitioned to delivering general purpose bombs and cluster bomb units on Serbian army positions and staging areas.

Background
For more than 40 years B-52 Stratofortresses have been the backbone of the manned strategic bomber force for the United States. The B-52 is capable of dropping or launching the widest array of weapons in the U.S. inventory. This includes gravity bombs, cluster bombs, precision guided missiles and joint direct attack munitions. Updated with modern technology the B-52 will be capable of delivering the full complement of joint developed weapons and will continue into the 21st century as an important element of our nation's defenses. Current engineering analyses show the B-52's life span to extend beyond the year 2045.

The B-52A first flew in 1954, and the B model entered service in 1955. A total of 744 B-52s were built with the last, a B-52H, delivered in October 1962. Only the H model is still in the Air Force inventory and is assigned to Air Combat Command and the Air Force Reserves.

The first of 102 B-52H's was delivered to Strategic Air Command in May 1961. The H model can carry up to 20 air launched cruise missiles. In addition, it can carry the conventional cruise missile that was launched in several contingencies during the 1990s, starting with Operation Desert Storm and culminating with Operation Allied Force.

General Characteristics
Primary Function: Heavy bomber
Contractor: Boeing Military Airplane Co.
Power plant: Eight Pratt & Whitney engines TF33-P-3/103 turbofan
Thrust: Each engine up to 17,000 pounds
Length: 159 feet, 4 inches (48.5 meters)
Height: 40 feet, 8 inches (12.4 meters)
Wingspan: 185 feet (56.4 meters)
Speed: 650 miles per hour (Mach 0.86)
Ceiling: 50,000 feet (15,151.5 meters)
Weight: Approximately 185,000 pounds empty (83,250 kilograms)
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 488,000 pounds (219,600 kilograms)
Range: Unrefueled 8,800 miles (7,652 nautical miles)
Armament: Approximately 70,000 pounds (31,500 kilograms) mixed ordnance -- bombs, mines and missiles. (Modified to carry air-launched cruise missiles, Harpoon anti-ship and Have Nap missiles.)
Crew: Five (aircraft commander, pilot, radar navigator, navigator and electronic warfare officer)
Accommodations: Six ejection seats
Unit Cost: $53.4 million (fiscal 98 constant dollars)
Date Deployed: February 1955
Inventory: Active force, 85; ANG, 0; Reserve, 9


Current as of March 2001

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DuncanK is offline DuncanK
Warlord
Evil Empire
Dec 2002
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  Old Post 05-03-2003 23:13
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I guess the USAF has enough confidence in them that they didn't send fighter escort.

 
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