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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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US abandoning plans to bring democracy to Iraq, say Kurds Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Kurdish Leaders Enraged by 'Undemocratic' American Plan to Occupy Iraq
By Patrick Cockburn in Arbil, northern Iraq

Monday 17 February 2003

The US is abandoning plans to introduce democracy in Iraq after a war to overthrow Saddam Hussein, according to Kurdish leaders who recently met American officials.

The Kurds say the decision resulted from pressure from US allies in the Middle East who fear a war will lead to radical political change in the region.

The Kurdish leaders are enraged by an American plan to occupy Iraq but largely retain the government in Baghdad. The only changes would be the replacement of President Saddam and his lieutenants with senior US military officers.

It undercuts the argument by George Bush and Tony Blair that war is justified by the evil nature of the regime in Baghdad.

"Conquerors always call themselves liberators," said Sami Abdul-Rahman, deputy prime minister of the Kurdish administration, in a reference to Mr Bush's speech last week in which he said US troops were going to liberate Iraq.

Mr Abdul-Rahman said the US had reneged on earlier promises to promote democratic change in Iraq. "It is very disappointing," he said. "In every Iraqi ministry they are just going to remove one or two officials and replace them with American military officers."

Kurdish officials strongly believe the new US policy is the result of pressure from regional powers, notably Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

The US appears to be quietly abandoning earlier declarations that it would make Iraq a model democracy in the Middle East. In Iraq, free elections would lead to revolutionary change because although the Shia Muslims and Kurds constitute three-quarters of the population, they are excluded from power in Baghdad by the Sunni Muslim establishment.

Kurdish leaders are deeply alarmed by US intentions, which only became clear at a meeting in Ankara earlier in the month and from recent public declarations by US officials. Hoshyar Zebari, a veteran Kurdish leader, said: "If the US wants to impose its own government, regardless of the ethnic and religious composition of Iraq, there is going to be a backlash."

Mr Abdul-Rahman accuses the US of planning cosmetic changes in Iraq. "This is to give the government on a platter to the second line of Ba'athists [the ruling party]," he said.

The US appears to be returning to the policy it pursued at the end of the Gulf War in 1991. It did seek to get rid of President Saddam but wanted to avoid a radical change in Iraq. The US did not support the uprisings of Shia Muslims and Kurdsbecause it feared a transformation in Iraqi politics that might have destabilised its allies in the Middle East or benefited Iran.

The two Kurdish parties -- the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), which rules western Kurdistan, and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan -- are at the heart of the Iraqi opposition. Together they rule four million people in an area the size of Switzerland that has been outside President Saddam's control since 1991.

The change in American policy means marginalising the Iraqi opposition which has been seeking to unite. In response to the US decision, the Kurds and their allies have accelerated moves to hold a conference of opposition parties in Salahudin, the headquarters of the KDP, now scheduled for tomorrow. "We want to know if we are partners in regime change or not," Mr Zebari said.

He spoke scathingly of any attempt by America "to bring in an Iraqi from the United States who has not seen his country for years and impose him by armed force".

The destabilising impact of the impending war is already being felt in the mountains of northern Iraq. Turkey has demanded that its troops be allowed to take over a swath of territory along the border inside Iraq. The ostensible reason is to prevent a flood of Kurdish refugees trying to flee into Turkey, but the Kurdish parties say they are quite capable of doing this themselves. They say the Turkish demand, to which they suspect the US has agreed in return for the use of Turkish military facilities, is the first step in a Turkish plan to advance into Iraqi Kurdistan.

The Kurds fear that a US-led war against President Saddam might be the occasion for a Turkish effort to end the de facto independence enjoyed by Iraqi Kurds for more than a decade. One Kurdish leader said: "Turkey has made up its mind that it will intervene in northern Iraq in order to destroy us.

Peace activists who want to be "human shields" arrived in Baghdad yesterday. The activists, who had 18 Britons among them, left London on 25 January in three double decker buses. They will deploy at likely bombing targets.

Patrick Cockburn is a visiting fellow at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies in Washington and the co-author of 'Saddam Hussein: An American Obsession'.

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:13
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Bad Moon Rising indeed.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:26
  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:15 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Suffering from ads?

Should titled this, US Plans to Screw the Kurds Yet Again

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:16 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Re: US abandoning plans to bring democracy to Iraq, say Kurds Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There wasn't ever such a plan.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:17
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The US can still make another Afghanistan out of Iraq yet.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:26
Question  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:17
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Link?

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:18 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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I support war with Turkey against Greece, Syria, Armenia, Iraq, Georgia, Bulgaria and Russia if it even thinks about going to genocide Iraqi Kurds too.
We can provide small Russian nukes we hide inside the mountains, napalms, cruise missiles, half of our tanks (around 1.500 German Leopard) and some 100 F-16s. (got to keep the others for safety)

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:20 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Got spare money?

DD, here.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:22 Visit DanS's homepage!
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I think you have to seriously question whether or not the opposition figures are suitable for immediate rule.

The people in charge in Iraq know how to make the trains run on time. It is critical that the trains run on time above all else at the beginning. Over time, a more democratic distribution of power can be instituted.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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They're effectively running a Kurdish state in the North of Iraq. I think they know how to make the trains run on time.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:26 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Sorry DanS, it is forbitten to talk so casually when you're about to kill 500.000 people.


About the Iraqi Kurds, I wouldn't be so sure they'll be without arms...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:26
  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:26
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Given that I can not find any sources for this story that sound credible, I'm going to withhold judgement on this for now.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Given that I can not find any sources for this story that sound credible, I'm going to withhold judgement on this for now.


Less credible than the CIA?

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:28 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Increase the size of your Attachments

Fox news for moneypenny.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:26
  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:29 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Seriously, Che, there have been quite some editorials about this. It seems that war on Iraq will benefit the Kurds. Unless something's changed in the last minute, that's how things stood.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:26
  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Less credible than the CIA?

The places where I found the article in my search (truthout.org & dc.indymedia.org) don't strike me as the most credible sources of information especially in light of the tone of the author's book. I wouldn't take an article by Ken Pollack at face value either.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:33 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Got spare money?

Everyone knows that our little brown brothers are the white man's burden, since they're not capable of self rule.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:33
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You seem to have no problems with news and articles quoting CIA as the source, hence my reflection.

CIA "Using outdated maps to save time."

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:26
  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:34 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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DD-That's just your bias in what regards sources.
I mean just look at Fox and tell me...
Not to mention the CIA "factbook", it's riddled with errours it's rather funny

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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Removing Hussein will benefit the Kurds, but perhaps not in the way that they dream--i.e., an independent Kurdistan. Rather, the US will likely seek a redistribution of Iraqi state power.

But first of all, you've got to make sure that the system for caring for all these people does not collapse. That's why we haven't been talking to the aid agencies that much.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:36 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Well Bush has demonstrated he's not tough. When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
See Afganistan.
The Europeans simply don't trust he's determined enough.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:36
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What exactly does that have to do with anything, UR?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:36 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Tired of ads?

The Independent is a British newspaper. That's where this story originates. TruthOut and Indymedia no doubt picked it up.

Andrew1999 is offline Andrew1999
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:37
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There's a pair of Guardian articles about the Iraqi National Congress's response to this plan.

Iraqi opposition slams military governor plan

Kanan Makiya: Our hopes betrayed

Among the highlights:
quote:

Iraq's democratic opposition parties are meeting this week in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq to finalise plans for a transitional government. But their vision of a post-Saddam administration is deeply at odds with proposals set out last week by President George Bush's special envoy to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad - and apparently endorsed by the Foreign Office. Under the plan a US military governor would rule post-war Iraq for up to a year.

The infrastructure of Saddam's ruling Baath party would remain largely intact, with the top two officials in each Iraqi ministry replaced by US military officers.


quote:

Yesterday the chairman of the Iraqi National Congress, Ahmad Chalabi, who many people had expected to become Iraq's new president, also derided Washington's proposals. 'The vision of having US military officers three deep in every ministry is not workable,' he told The Observer .

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:38 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The Independent is a British newspaper. That's where this story originates. TruthOut and Indymedia no doubt picked it up.


Sorry. Now I don't trust it.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:39 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Ah, both Japan and Germany were ruled by military governors.

Now they are the two greatest "projects" the US ever created.

IT'S CALLED *TRANSITION GOVERNMENT*

DUH

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:39 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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http://burn.ucsd.edu/~ats/PKK/pkk.html

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:40 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
CIA "Using outdated maps to save time."


That was just an excuse. The embassy was bombed deliberately.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:41 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Ted, no comparison.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 19-02-2003 08:41 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Maybe the PKK can stage a massive uprising when the war begins.

 
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