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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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This is a discussion piece and not correspondence. Togas posted this in the intersite game forum, under the title of resurrecting the Machiavellian Society - or ways to get ahead in pbem games. Some interesting stuff - including reference to us in the first point. But I thought all of it was good food for thought.
Machiavellian Society
It's about time this society resurfaced. I'm more than happy to be the first one to bring it back.
Today's discussion topic is: How to be successful in foreign affairs in a PBEM setting..
First off, it needs to be noted that there seem to be distinctly different styles of head to head play. Some PBEM games are tactical wars with very little correspondence and little active diplomacy. Some games (like the PTW team game) are filled with interaction, propoganda, complex negotiations, and ripe for a situation where the Machivelli Society can prosper.
I'll start out with 4 things I've learned, and some examples of each.
1) Tech deals can be negotiated far before tech is actually received.
While it's far easier and less confusing to line up tech trades after you get a tech, it's far more productive to line up "orders" for your tech turns before you get it. Not only can you ensure that you will receive the fastest possible gain from your tech trades, you will also beat your competators to market if you can get firm deals with other nations for your work before your work (and their work) is ever done. Better yet, if you can get a firm deal to receive someone else's tech you can often get another deal to resell their tech to a neighbor or a nation that is lazy in their own negotiations.
Despite the many things Lux Invicta did in the foreign policy world that were arrogant and foolish, Trip's agressive future tech trade schemes were initially very sucessful, and allowed Lux to function on a minimal research budget while keeping at pace with the rest of the world around them. He also kept his contact with Vox well hidden and pawned off Vox's research as his own to his unsuspecting neighbors.
His mistake was in not blocking the one square that allowed access to Vox. GoW discovered this square, got contact, and destroyed Lux's scheme by releasing the knowledge to others.
2) ANYTHING can be negotiated. Ignore the limited framework Fraxis gives us and get creative. You can negotiate borders, settlement treaties, embargos, information trades, non-trade clauses, research pacts, or even demand that units not cross certain land areas.
We got into an international "scuffle" with GoW in the PTW game when a GoW warrior, doing a casual scout/mapping trip, crossed into an area we had claimed as our domain. Despite the fact that this is perfectly acceptable in the game, we were still "annoyed" by it and were able to use their refusal to leave as a legitimate issue that needed to be resolved. We were later able to bargain for their removal as a pre-condition to carrying through a deal they had counted on doing with us.
Anything can be negotiated.
3) Phrase agreements in ways that favor your agenda.
An "alliance" can be phrased in such a way that it is only activated under specific terms .... terms that you determine. Say you don't want your neighbor to use the alliance as a to go to war? Put in that the alliance is only triggered by one of the allies getting war declared on them by another team. Say you don't want to go to war with X nation -- put in a clause that voids the alliance if you ally goes to war with that nation.
In the PTW Game we created an alliance with Lux Invicta that was purely defensive and was voided if Lux started a war. We then slipped word to Neu Dem at the brink of war that our alliance would be activated if Neu Dem declared war, but not if Lux did. As fate would have it, Lux started the war and Spain was able to escape untouched. (sidenote: The alliance was also due to run out in a turn, and we had purposely stalled negotiations ... see point 4)
4) Active ambassadors are a MUST, as most business need to be tended to quickly, but stalling tactics are extremely simple and effective in PTW.
Don't want to cheese off that neighbor's about his lame proposal or that deal you don't really want to make? Don't get back to them. Forget to respond. Respond late with vague language. Assign someone else to handle a "complex renegotiation" and then act annoyed when that person hasn't yet written back. Stall. Prolong. Bring up other issues and try to tie them to the deal. There are endless ways to very politely say "no" without saying no. Letting deals die while pretending to be reworking them is an excellent smokescreen for a top secret military attack (Pearl Harbor, anyone?)
In the PTW game Trip very persistantly kept on me about redoing the alliance between our nations and I told him we wanted to renew and that I had assigned it to jdjdjd. I told jdjdjd explicitly to add new provisions, make up new terms, and stall like mad on the deal. Jdjdjd also wasn't exceptionally active at the time due to RL work issues... a normally bad trait for an ambassador, but a good trait in this situation... and for three days I was covered because "Jdjdjd should have done that yesterday..." and "I don't understand, jdjdjd is usually very on top of these things. If he doesn't write you by tomorrow, let me know" and so forth. The process was successfully stalled, the treaty would have run out before our intentionally slow reneg process would have concluded.
These are a few examples. Please post other ideas and examples that you have observed ... from your own successful ploys to ones used by your clever opponents.
--Togas
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:26
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I think we are close enough to map making to trade mini maps. I say yes. And since they already have map making that is even more realistic.
Go ahead and put the message in the bottle and put it in the ocean.
Yes very interesting reading above. Lux should have occupied that spot. Althought that would have tipped off the other teams I'm sure.
He's revealing quite a bit. It's not like this game is over. We still have a long way to go. We could use this information.
Esp. the part about trading a tech you get from someone else. I think they did this with mysticism or something. I think what this shows is that we need to be on top when we research a tech. If we make a deal with a nation like Roleplay. they are going to use that tech to trade with other nations. It is up to us to get the full benefit from every tech we research. So it is up to us to contact other teams before a team like Roleplay does, and try to get more value from our tech.
So what this means is if we tell one team we will trade them Philosophy which we are researching right now. We need to contact other teams at the same time to try to get a deal for philosophy.
Last edited by Dis on 20-02-2003 at 03:31
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by BetaHound
Yes - something like that.
And as mentioned above, we should also bring to their attention that:
We have provided:
bronze working
iron working
warrior code
mysticism
mathematics
and horseback riding when they want it
That is 240 beakers worth - 290 if the take HB riding
They have provided:
The Wheel
Alphabet
Writing
That is 170 beakers worth.
Diss - you did pass them math last turn - didn't you? |
what will it be afeter code of laws/ philosophy?
Jon Miller
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:26
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disregard.
I sent out the 3500 one.
Last edited by Dis on 21-02-2003 at 13:20
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19-02-2003 12:22
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