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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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Received from Legoland.
Re: Proposal
My dear Sir,
The wise men of Legoland have carefully studied and debated your proposal and reached the following consensus:
Regretfully we have to decline your offer. It is not that we don't want to talk or trade with Vox Controli, but we have so little information that can be made public, that it wouldn't be a fair deal.
The minimap trading would have been perfect because our primary goal is to find out your geographical position in the world and we don't mind if you find out ours, but, with all respect, we are not prepared to give away sensitive information about how our landmass' size, topography and such. Btw we have exchanged minimaps with all the others teams, except yours.
I agree with you, "we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by being friends and open with each other". Thus even without a trade I will tell you the following information:
- we are alone on our landmass
- we are separated by others by a vast looking ocean
- we haven't made contact yet with any other civ
- no, we are not in a "deep technological hole"
- we are eager to make contact with the other civs, therefor our first galley is almost ready to sail
- we have only one type of luxury (but fortunately plenty of it)
- we do have some information on what is happening on the 4-civ continent, but our knowledge of what's happening is far from complete.
If you feel like telling us similar things about you, we will appreciate it, but for the moment there is actually hardly anything else to report.
If you think that in certain fields we could exchange more info please let us know. For a more "direct" communication (scheduled chats, for ex.) please contact Redstar (our FA) or Vondrack (our President). Especially Vondrack is almost always online.
Cheers and good luck
Tiberius
quote:
BetaHound wrote on 15-02-2003 15:25:
No - I don't mind at all. What I mean is that I will provide detailed written description of where we are in the world, what our land looks like, who are neighbours are, what kind of relations we have with them, etc. And you do the same. It is widely understood that you are on a landmasss by yourself, but we asssume you have made contact with other civs over a straight of water of some sort. Otherwise - you would be in a deep technological hole.
Hope ths clarifies what I mean. Let's talk. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by being friends and open with each other. We are not nearby neighbours, so we won't be vying for the same piece of geography in the near future. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Cheers! ... Beta.
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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Received from Neu Demogyptica, via e-mail.
Dear BetaHound,
Dear Voxians, dear friends,
let me introduce myself. I am Louis, citizen of Neu Demogyptica and
designated ambassador for the empire of Vox Controli. I'm really looking
forward to settle down in the embassy of Neu Demogyptica in your glorious
country.
First I have to apologize that the people of ND were so quiet for a long
time and could not answer your messages. All of your letters arrived, even
if they had to cross the ocean, but, alas!, our scribes found no time to
answer them, because they were forced to put away their plumes and take up
their swords instead to go to war. As you surely already heard, the
untrustworthy people from Lux Invita first invaded our country with their
warriors, frightening our farmers and disturbing our harvest seasen. In the
end, they killed our brave scout Thor in an ambush in No Man's Land, thus
forcing us to declare war on them.
This war goes on for some years now and the politicians and generals of Lux
Invicta have proven more wicked and selfish then we ever would have thought:
They rather prefered to burn down their cities, killing their own people
then allow us to liberate them and show the citizens the advantages of our
civilisation.
This is mostly the reasen why none of our scribes found the time to answer
your messages. Nevertheless, we still honour the friendship that Vox has
shown to us some ages before and we often think of you and your continent
which must be a continent of peace, without any malicious generals who burn
their own cities.
But let's stop this discussion of bloodshed and war and focus on more
important issues. As I said I am designated to be your new ambassador. I
will try my best to explain my people how your country functions and how
special your culture is and what they may be able to learn from the empire
of Vox Controli. As a matter of course, you can also always ask me to tell
you more from Neu Demogyptica and I will try to answer all your questions.
We're also very interested in how your relationship with Gathering Storm has
developed. We know very little of this nation. But as you told us you had
difficulties with them, my people look at them with suspicion. We hope that
everything is reassessed now on your continent and that you can prosper and
develop your society.
Finally, I wanted to talk with you about our tech-trade. Our scientists
finally discovered the secrets of Mysticism. They are behaving a little
bit... mysterious ... since then. Well... they had help from the scientists
from GoW... but as we honour the friendship between our two nations, we
still want to share with you the secrets of the numbers, called "Math".
Unless the scientists from GoW haven't already explained it to you. Please
note that we have our own system of counting, called the "Arabic numeral".
You might find it very useful, perhaps more useful than the numbers you used
before in your daily life. And definitly more convenient than the
complicated number system from GoW. If you already discovered the secret of
"Math" we still want to offer you our Arabic numerals as a gift: one = 1,
two = 2, three = 3, ... [etc.etc.]
My warmest regards to you, BetaHound, and to the glorious nation of Vox
Controli. I pray to the Mysterious Gods that our friendship will last
through the ages.
With sincerity
Louis, Ambassador of Neu Demogyptica
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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nbarclay's incoming note today and my response. I had earlier in the day grilled Shiber in a chat with him and BFM, trying to figure out why the contact was so important. I may have ruffled a few feathers, but I got a reasonable comfort level that GS and Lux were not up to anything. Shiber even indicated that he had floated the idea of asking Lux for their treasury, but that the idea had not gone over that well with the Gs team. The Sir Ralph showed up, with Eli and I there- so I put the Lux plan on the table. SR went back to discuss the idea with GS. This note showed up, and I responded. I had earlier written Sir Ralph about keeping the situation quiet. I will post that next.
Re: The Lux Contact Situation
Hi nathan. Busy day. Thank-you for the explanation. I should've asked earlier as well. I apologize if I put Shiber on the spot today.
I thought we had already provided contact with Neu D. We will with the upcoming turn.
And - as discussed with Sir Ralph today - we are going to have new neighbours. We have reached agreement with Lux, and our southern border city will be renamed Portia and turned over to them.
They understand our, GS and Vox, treaty agreements, and will abide by them. This is a temporary move, and they are not allowed to settle another city on this continent. They pose no threat to either GS ot Vox.
We can provide more details on this arangement as required, but time is of the essensce, and I must return to some other duties.
Regards - BetaHound
quote:
nbarclay wrote on 23-02-2003 18:38:
Greetings BetaHound and People of Vox Controli,
I apologize for the concern my not doing a better job explaining our reasons for wanting to contact Lux seems to have caused. We've been tossing around a few wild ideas (though none as wild as your thoughts of giving/loaning them Dissidentville), but they've really been just that - wild ideas that the team ultimately did not view as practical. So really, our interest comes down to two things. (1) We don't want Lux to disappear without our ever getting a chance to see them on our F8 graphs and so forth. And (2) we want a chance to talk to them just in case some kind of mutually beneficial arrangement might be possible. We haven't had anything specific in mind - at least nothing that seemed particularly workable - but we would be remiss in our duties as leaders of our nation if we didn't explore whether there might be any possibilities. By the way, I might note that Shiber was the source of at least one or two of our "wild ideas", and when you chatted earlier, I think that may have led him to sound like our plans for what to do with contact were clearer and more concrete than they really are.
In regard to Horseback Riding, our inclination for the moment is to hold off getting it from you until sufficient time has passed that it's unlikely to cause serious friction between you and GoW. We'll let you know when we think the time is right.
Also, with Code of Laws nearing completion, we would like to get contact with Neu Demogyptica so we can shop it around to them. You stand to gain as well, of ocurse, if we can arrange a trade for something they are currently researching. If you could provide us with contact (or sell contact with us to ND in the next turn or so), we would greatly appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist of Gathering Storm
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Jon Miller
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ah, we dont' have the same deal with lux
we don't give them our tech
they will want mapmaking though
see. they are desperate for cash. they could easily use their position to flip techs.
(and we want them to have it)
oh, you know that we both have contacs with the rest of the continent
we would deal with the tech first
yes, we want them to have MM, but not anything outside that path.
we won't give them anything else
great.
we might trade, but they won't have anything to trade for a while
(and yuo would get benifits of trade also)
oops.
ah, bad?
yes, not good.
so you want adon to the trade bill?
I don't think that there is anything special with lux
no. we do not want vox to give any tech to lux for any reason.
hmm, is that deal breaker for you guys, or can we have discussion on that?
we can make sure they get MM soon enough to get off our lands.
please discuss.
I mean, I guess it does not matter which of us trades with them (if they have something to trade)
but it is weird that that is such a big deal to you
I will present this request to Vox
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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Hi Jon - I assume that was chat room conversation.
Trip has responded to my note. They have ben chatting with GS. At first glance, I'm not sure I like where this is headed.
Reply Part 1
As it appears that you were not available at the time, I shall respond via PM instead then.
quote:
Are you OK with us sharing the recent Lux-Vox agreement with GS if it is necessary to calm their nerves. Haven't heard anything, but I want to be ready to react quickly if need be. Especially if their warrior takes a more aggressive stance. ..... Beta
Trip's response:
Once you talk with them about recent discussions between Lux and GS, you can be assured that we have no devious agreement with them.
We've had many discussions with GS this past day. They've been relatively accepting of the situation and Lux's presence on the continent, though they were a bit forceful, though they desire nothing tangible from us or Vox, luckily. They are willing to let Lux stay under a few conditions, which they will probably lay out for you when you talk with them. They have no desire to attack Lux, though they want assurance of the security of their interests.
A couple things for Vox to be aware of is that GS wants to keep units inside of Lux borders (but at a distance of no closer than 2 tiles from our city). In addition, Lux will be keeping all of its units outside of our city so they can be sure we are not building up units for an attack or other malicious intention. Vox is permitted to keep any number of workers and 1 defensive unit inside Lux borders to defend those workers, but is not to use Lux territory for any kind of military purposes (acceptable demand from GS, as I see it).
Lux is also working on a deal to get Writing and Map Making from GS, which is part of what they want so that conflict of some sort does not erupt over the existance of Lux on this continent. This deal will likely require the withdrawing of 130 gold from the sum that Lux gave to Vox for safekeeping, in accordance with the terms of the agreements made with both Vox and GS. While we regret having to request most of our cash back, we are required to do so to acquire Map Making, which was one of the terms to our treaty. The sooner we get this tech, the sooner we can be gone from this continent, which in turn means the sooner Vox can get its city back, and the sooner that Lux can start becoming strong again to help Vox with what we've agreed to. We also remain firm on our guarantee to provide our techs to you, and have no intentions of changing the treaty in any way.
GS has no aggressive intentions towards Lux or Vox from what I can tell. They are, understandably, trying to protect their interests, and want to make sure that Lux doesn't cause too much trouble, which is the same as Vox wants. GS and Vox will have other matters to attend to, but Lux will remain outside of such discussions. I think what GS wants is quite fair, especially considering the fact that they have no sore feelings or harsh demands regarding this situation.
__________________
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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Reply Part 2
quote:
Also - we have been thinking about the tech arrangement that has been agreed to, and unless you can think of a way around it, we suspect only the first civ into the new era will get the techs. That civ cannot pass the newly acquired techs back to a civ still in the previous era. And when the second civ hits that era, it will likely get the same techs. As we are probably the ones going to be the first civ through - it will not be possible for you to honor that part of the deal. Any thoughts? Have we got it wrong? ....Beta
Trip's Response:
After a lot of thinking, you may be right.
It may be possible to cheat the game in a way to trade techs one after another to get Lux into the Middle Ages, then to give us Monotheism in order so that we may get another tech, though the game will probably recognize the transition, and require the deals to take place on different turns. This is, however, unproven and very sketchy. Your concern is valid, and we may need to consider alternatives. Some verification on who gets what techs and when will probably be necassary in order to make some sort of exact agreement though. BFM led me to believe that scientific civs always get the same free techs, but I do not know this, so perhaps someone from Vox knows for certain.
Lux hopes to hear back from our neighbors to the north again soon. Let us know soon what becomes of the talks between Vox and GS.
Trip,
King of Lux Invicta
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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Received from Trip via PM today. I gave him a quick heads up when the save was sent the previous turn that we had a deal for writing and map making for him. Then wehen they took so long to play the turn, I sent him a reminder that they had the save. Now he sends this. My patience as Mother Theresa is wearing thin.
Re: ptwdg save
Yes, I know, I was still waiting to talk with you.
Since you seem to be too slippery to track down, I'll have to talk with you in here.
In response to your previous offer for Writing and Map Making. While I'm sure Vox likes the idea, Lux does not approve. Instead of using our gold to trade for Writing and Map Making, we have to give you construction and our entire economy for them instead? Lux could not accept such a deal and continue to function.
Lux has found a deal which works out better for us getting Map Making. It will only cost us 40 gold, so that's all you'll have to return to us for that. It does not involve GS, do don't worry. A better idea for Vox may be to give Lux Invicta Writing, since they will end up keeping the large sum of money we stocked with Vox anyways. It will either be that, or one of our neighbors will profit from our acquisition of Writing anyways. Lux feels this is the best and cheapest way for both teams to get this deal done. Remember, the money you're holding for us is still ours to use as we please until we get Map Making. Lux feels this is the best way to keep you with most of that, without hurting Lux to the extent that Vox's previous offer did.
Let me know what you think. I'd like to send the save sometime.
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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Received tonight from Nathan Barclay of GS. I don't think the 10 turn delay is too bad. We would not be ready to go with a settler and galley right away as it is. 10, or 12 turns, whatever it ends up being - is about right. Maybe I should say 8 turns - that would be better.
Hi nathan.
I understand about the delay. I too had some serious RL stuff this week that pre-occupied me. Take care.
Two points.
First - when is the map making trade going to occur? If it is shortly- as in the next turn or two - then 10 turns would be OK. We will need to cover our tracks about what we have to trade.
Secondly - Lux is being a pain. I esplained the basics of the deal we had lined up for Lux to Lux - I thought they would be appreciative. Instead, they have come up with another deal for map making - presumably GoW, and want some of their gold back to purchase it.
Jon and I are in agreement that we tell them the deal on the table is non-negotiable. If need be - our spearman will take back the city and we can put our Mother Theresa aspirations behind us.
Will keep you posted - and will confirm quicjkly the above 120 turn wait on map making.
Cheers ... Beta.
quote:
nbarclay wrote on 01-03-2003 19:45:
The deal with RolePlay is a straight Code of Laws for Literature transaction. For the moment, the plan is for you to sit on Philosophy, but that's still a matter that requires further thought and discussion. Regarding Republic, it may make a huge amount of sense to sell/trade it as a time when someone else is likely to get the tech approaches, but we do still want to try to set up a window where the two of us are the only ones who have it.
We just had a situation develop with GoW. GhengisFarb had previously indicated that they were going to accept our proposed deal for Map Making, but now they're trying to add strings. (Sound familiar?) One of the things they want is a ten-turn "no tech whoring" provision. Would you be willing to accept a ten-turn delay between the time we get Map Making and the time we pass it on to you in the interest of trying to mask our relationship? (If they trade it to us and then you have it immediately after, they will certainly view it as a violation of the agreement whatever technical excuses we might make to try to rationalize our actions.)
Sorry about not getting back to you sooner, but I'd been up all night and was a bit too tired for complex diplomatic matters when I got your message this morning. And unfortunately, the trade situation is diverting too much attention from the Lux situation for us to have gotten a lot farther considering that. Speaking of the Lux situation, GoW now has suspicions that they've relocated to our continent, but indicate that they aren't interested in chasing after them.
Nathan
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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My response to Trip. I am also sending to BFM. Maybe he can knock some sense into Trip's head. If not - well - one move by the spearman and it is all over. Wish we hadn't given the 75 gold to GS.  My letter is strongly worder as to leave little room for mis-intepretation.
Trip and BFM - here is the deal on the table. We have already had to pay a large sum to GS as part of this deal, and to keep them from destroying you. This deal is being done to ensure your survival. I would advise you not 'look a gift horse in the mouth'. Patience is wearing thin on our side. Construction would have been due to come to us anyway as part of the previous deal, and from what you have said, it won't be available for quite a while as it is. Keep in mind who your friends are here. The deal:
Lux and Vox agree to the following:
1. Vox gives writing to Lux in 2 turns.
2. Lux starts paying Vox 2 gold per turn for 20 turns upon receipt of writing.
3. Vox gives map making to Lux when it is available. This will be approximately 12 turns.
4. Lux gives its world map to both Vox and GS the turn after it gets map making.
5. Lux gives construction to Vox when it is done.
6. This deal is non-negotiable by Lux.
This agreement does not negate or replace Lux's obligations under the previous accord agreed-to by Lux and Vox - the Portia Accord.
This agreement does not negate or replace any agreements or stipulations in place between Lux and GS or Vox regarding unit movement and placement.
.... BetaHound, Voice of Foreign Affairs, Vox Controli
So - if my count is correct - for saving you from destruction, lending you a city and hurting our own economy for 40-50 turns, risking that city to future cultural conversion because of foreing occupation, upsetting the status quo on our own continent, and giving you writing and map making now when you most need them, we get 190 gold (a sizeable portion of which we have had to give to GS), and six future techs, 3 of which are doubtful because of the free tech for scientific civ issue. Your pledge of future friendship is also now in serious doubt as our very first experience with Lux on the new continent is to have them bite the hand that feeds them and start negotiating with others for 'better' deals. I don't recall anyone from the continent stepping forward to save your bacon a few turns ago. But now you want to start dealing with them when we have guaranteed you the technology you need - at a more than reasonable price. Please think hard about this. The hawks in the Voxian senate are restless.
...BetaHound, VFA, Vox Controli
quote:
Trip wrote on 01-03-2003 16:39:
Yes, I know, I was still waiting to talk with you. 
Since you seem to be too slippery to track down, I'll have to talk with you in here.
In response to your previous offer for Writing and Map Making. While I'm sure Vox likes the idea, Lux does not approve. Instead of using our gold to trade for Writing and Map Making, we have to give you construction and our entire economy for them instead? Lux could not accept such a deal and continue to function.
Lux has found a deal which works out better for us getting Map Making. It will only cost us 40 gold, so that's all you'll have to return to us for that. It does not involve GS, do don't worry. A better idea for Vox may be to give Lux Invicta Writing, since they will end up keeping the large sum of money we stocked with Vox anyways. It will either be that, or one of our neighbors will profit from our acquisition of Writing anyways. Lux feels this is the best and cheapest way for both teams to get this deal done. Remember, the money you're holding for us is still ours to use as we please until we get Map Making. Lux feels this is the best way to keep you with most of that, without hurting Lux to the extent that Vox's previous offer did.
Let me know what you think. I'd like to send the save sometime.
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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Received from Nathan Barclay of GS.
RE: Re: Re: ok - last message
I just had a chat with Trip trying to clear up a couple points, and I think it will be possible to do business without getting nasty. His main goal for the moment is to keep from getting left totally behind in the tech race, and it occurs to me that it may actually be in our best interest to accommodate him - especially with Lux being a scientific civ and the 1.21 patch out now. A good diplomat tries to avoid using an iron fist when a velvet glove will suffice (or perhaps a velvet glove with an iron fist inside it).
According to Trip, Construction was not part of your original deal with Lux, and the text I have of the Portia Accord seems to bear that out. It's only natural that Trip be upset at having you make new demands (both Construction and additional gold) and offer nothing in return, and the fact that he had an elaborate trading scheme in mind to try to keep in the tech race makes matters worse for him.
But we/you could provide Lux with techs of comparable value in return for Construction without its really costing us anything (assuming we end up deciding it's in our best interest to get Construction from Lux rather than elsewhere), and maybe also arrange things so the 2 gpt you want comes as part of a tech sale rather than as pure extortion. Indeed, making it part of a tech sale might get us more gold than that. And we need Lux to keep within shouting distance in the tech race in the ancient era if we want them to get their free medieval tech in time for it to be of any use to us if it's different from yours. (That's where the new patch plays an important role.)
If you'll let me work on it, I'll see if I can come up with an arrangement that Trip will accept for more reason than just that a spear is being held to his head, and that won't cost us anything of importance in the process. Then I get to try to sell it both to you and to Gathering Storm.
Regarding Map Making, I'm suggesting that we put the "no tech whoring" deal in terms of 10 turns after we get Map Making or 15 turns after they get Code of Laws, whichever is earlier. That's a little over the 12 turns you had in mind, but not much. I hope that will be okay with you if it's what we end up with.
Nathan
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Jon Miller
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sounds ok, I guess
Jon Miller
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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I originally sent this letter to Nathan of GS today, but then I saw the most recent polling results on whether to finish Lux off or not. So I cancelled it. Needs further discussion.
Hi Nathan. Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Jon and I had to discuss the situation.
As you can tell, despite the Voxian love of the outdoors and travel, we are not happy campers. My recent letter to Trip probably best explains why. Our biggest concern is what we will get out of this deal in the future. Our previous dealings with Lux were, ah, somewhat difficult. And this recent experience has not been much better - despite the huge olive leaf - indeed the whole tree - which we have extended.
As I said in my letter, if we, Vox provide the 40 gold for them to do this deal, then we have received the equivalent of 35 gold in payment for the loan of a city for some 40 turns or so, at a point in the game when each city is very important. We don't even get construction. The 6 future techs may be only 3, depending on the patch. And even then - Lux's recent behaviour indicates that they may renege on providing future techs at all, if at that time it is not a 'good' deal for them.
That being said - if this is to work, we acknowledge that Lux cannot be technologically and economically crippled to the point where they would not be a usefull ally. Indeed, our original intent with Lux was that would not be the case. It was part of the original discussions. Our beef with this deal is that they are using 'our' money to get a tech that would have been available for essentially nothing anyways. And the 2 gpt is negotiable.
And as they have explained his 'elaborate trading scheme' to you, it would only make sense that they explain it to us. And if we - GS and Vox - agree that this makes sense - and they should get 40 gold, then we should discuss which treasury this comes from. What seems to be missing in all these discussions is the expense and risk, in real game terms, that Vox is incurring to save Lux from extinction.
So, yes please Nathan, if you can come up with something that works for all, recognizing what all three nations have put into this so far, please do. It would be appreciated by us the Voxians, who as you can tell, are somewhat frustrated by this matter right now.
Regarding map making and GoW, you do appreciate why it is in both our best interests for Vox to get galleys as soon as possible. Expansion in another direction will take pressure off our continent, as we discussed when reaching the border agreement. So - we would like to stick to a time period of roughly 10-12 turns from now. From what I gather that would put it 5-7 turns after you get map making. We could stretch by a turn or two, but we do not want to wait too long.
By the way, GoW approached us again today about trading for map making. Any suggestions as to a response?
Thanks for helping out on this. I could ask why you are helping out, but my guess is that you see this the same way we do, in that if we can make a game-long ally out of Lux, then the technology and future support would flow to both of us.
Beta.
Last edited by Beta on 03-03-2003 at 23:05
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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:26
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Sent to nathan of Gs this morning:
Hi Nathan. Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Jon and I and the team had to discuss the Lux situation at some length.
As you can tell, despite the Voxian love of the outdoors and travel, we were not happy campers. My recent letter to Trip probably best explained why. However, we have since had some heart-to-heart conversations with trip, and we seem to have all gotten back on the same page, and the mood here has improved considerably.
We acknowledge that Lux cannot be technologically and economically crippled to the point where they would not be a usefull ally. Indeed, our original intent with Lux was that this would not be the case. It was part of the earlier discussions when we originally extended the olive leaf and the lifeline to Lux.
Trip has explained his trading plans to us. We are on-side. However, we do need to discuss the matter of the 40 gold. What seems to be missing in many of these discussions is the expense and risk, in real game terms, that Vox is incurring to save Lux from extinction. That being said, we are willing to, and have already forwarded to Lux, 20 gold from our half of their monetary reserves. We are asking that on your turn you forward 20 gold to Lux from your half of the reserves.
I hope that you can see the logic and the benefit to GS of doing this. You will have netted 55 gold, plus the benefit of the future techs we receive from Lux under the Portia Accord, given the current tech trading arrangement between ourselves. This is the same benefit we receive, with Vox also incurring the opportunity costs associated with Portia.
As part of this arrangement, we will likely get map making earlier than under the GS-GoW arrangement. We will be getting it via Lux, if they can swing it. I hope you understand why it is in both our best interests for Vox to get galleys as soon as possible. Expansion in another direction will take pressure off our continent, as we discussed when reaching the border agreement. This also eliminates any pressure on both of us regarding the 10 turn restriction.
By the way, GoW approached us again today about trading for map making. Any suggestions as to a response? I suspect we tell them that we are a long way to having anything to trade. Which, if we sit on Philosophy as planned, will appear to be the case. Regarding philosophy, four turns to go, three after this last turn. And, we may still be able to shave one turn off that.
In conclusion, please feel free to chat with Trip about any or all of this. And thanks for helping out to the extent that you have. My guess is that you see this the same way we do, in that if we can make a game-long ally out of Lux, then the technology and future support would flow to both of us.
Regards .... Beta.
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19-02-2003 12:23
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