26-02-2003 13:14									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Sorry, Tingkai, this has to be said: You have to be a complete moron not to be worried about mountain driving in the winter through the Canadian Rockies. Total and complete moron.

If driving through the mountains "worries" you then don't go through them. You'll just get in an accident.

The proper way to drive through the mountains is not to panic, but to respect the conditions. That means you drive carefully and slowly. If weather conditions get really bad, you stop driving.

	26-02-2003 13:15									#212
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No kidding, but they're closed an awful lot.
All of the other times it seems that "travel is not encouraged"...

	26-02-2003 13:16									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai You're seeing demons where they don't exist. You and Asher are both boys from Alberta. You're both scared of mountain driving. There ain't no bigotry there. As for going through the Rockies on the T-C, almost all of it is extremely sage, except for the last five miles before Golden.

No. I'm seeing demons where they live. You don't like it? Live with the consequences of your past behaviour.

As far as afraid of mountain driving when the snow flies... only a moron would not treat that with a great deal of respect.

As for your experience with Western living, forgive me if I dismiss you as someone who really doesn't have a clue beyond the air ports and ski slopes you have touched down on.

	26-02-2003 13:17									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai If driving through the mountains "worries" you then don't go through them. You'll just get in an accident. The proper way to drive through the mountains is not to panick, but to respect the conditions. That means you drive carefully and slowly. If weather conditions get really bad, you stop driving.

Thanks Tingkai. Where do you live again, Hong Kong?

You don't go through the Rockies in the winter unless you have to. End of story.

Of course, when you DO go driving out in the rockies, you don't panick and you "respect the conditions". But you don't do it unless you have to.

I'm sorry nobody's taught that to you yet. I suppose most people would figure it out on their own. But you know those easterners, "Oh, it's not THAT bad, what are you guys talking about?"

It should be noted that most of the time the people who die in the Rockies aren't from the area. That's 'cause we know better.

	26-02-2003 13:18									#215
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Asher, you like taking the 3 down to Panaroma right?

If you want an interesting drive, try going over to Nelson and the ski hill there (great powder). Then you'll see what I mean when I say that going through the Rockies on the T-C is relatively easy. And if you want really challenging driving, take south route from Penticton to Hope. Hairpin turns a plenty.

	26-02-2003 13:18									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai You do know that driving anywhere in Canada during the winter can be dangerous. You want a bad area, try the 401 between Sarnia and London, or the 400 outside of Barrie. Anyone who has done a lot of winter driving in all different parts of Canada will tell you that driving through the Rockies isn't that bad compared to some other parts. And when the roads are not dangerous when they're closed, cause you can't drive on a closed road.

This is great! the 401 is as easy to drive as the Crows Nest Pass. Wow. I never knew.

F*ck you are stupid.

	26-02-2003 13:20									#217
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When I drive to the Rockies, it's in my big-honking-****-you-environmentalists SUV, and I still don't like it.

A friend of my dad was killed when he hit a deer(?) in poor visibility in the Rockies. Came right up through the windshield.

	26-02-2003 13:22									#218
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Asher: I live in the BC mountains regions for years before coming to HK. Maybe you stay in the house all winter long, but I always liked going skiing, or visiting friends and family. If that meant I drove over some mountain ranges, so be it.

It is just a matter of respecting the mountains, and having the brains to say I'm not going through today. But avoiding the mountains just because it is winter? That's taking safety way too far.

Tell you what, come and talk to me after you spend a winter living in a mountains area (no, Calgary don't count). Until then, you don't have the experience to talk about this.

	26-02-2003 13:25									#219
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither This is great! the 401 is as easy to drive as the Crows Nest Pass. Wow. I never knew. F*ck you are stupid.

F*ck, you can't read. I said that stretch of the 401 is MORE dangerous. Get it. More dangerous means lots of accidents. cars going bang. Fog rolling in creating white out conditions. Snow causing white outs. Black ice. Unpredictable High winds that can snap your car off the road. DANGEROUS.

	26-02-2003 13:27									#220
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Anyone know how much is shipped through BC to Alaska yearly?

I tried for a bit, but I'm tired and going to bed.

The preferred route from Seattle-Alaska goes through
BC, they don't bother to go through Alberta.

It's a matter of distance.

To go from Seattle to Edmonton adds time when they can go along the Cassiar Highway.

SO we are both wrong.

Look on my earlier posted link to see where the route lies.

G'night all.

	26-02-2003 13:28									#221
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F*ck you are stupid.

Can you get that many more people travel that stretch. Or are you foolishly suggesting that driving a flat piece of highway is as dangerous as mountain driving with a 1000 foot cliff on one side of you with all the hazards you suggest and more, in spades?

	26-02-2003 13:32									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Asher: I live in the BC mountains regions for years before coming to HK. Maybe you stay in the house all winter long, but I always liked going skiing, or visiting friends and family. If that meant I drove over some mountain ranges, so be it.

And naturally you can conclude that because you didn't die, it's not unsafe...

And you know damn well that I didn't stay in the house all winter, and in fact I drove out to BC with friends...

quote: It is just a matter of respecting the mountains, and having the brains to say I'm not going through today. But avoiding the mountains just because it is winter? That's taking safety way too far.

Nobody said avoid it when it's winter. You only go there if you have to: ie, if you're going visiting someone there or skiing there.

If you have the choice to go through the prairie instead on a larger road to get to the same place, you do it.

I don't see what's wrong with that. You're being incredibly silly.

quote: Tell you what, come and talk to me after you spend a winter living in a mountains area (no, Calgary don't count). Until then, you don't have the experience to talk about this.

Just where do you have time to do all this? You worked as an editor for this-paper and that-paper, you were in the CF, you've got a degree, you've lived in the east, you've lived in the west, you live in Hong Kong -- what's next?

Isn't it a bit convenient that you always claim personal experience with everything that comes up for debate, and dismiss everyone else citing personal experience?

	26-02-2003 13:35									#223
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People are bad drivers.

You get lots of people together you get more accidents.

Fewer drivers along a stretch of highway will result in fewer accidents.

What you have to do Tingkai is to account for the differences in traffic when comparing how intrinsically dangerous one section of highway is to drive.

That's what you are arguing Asher, that Highway 97 is more intrinsically dangerous than the 401.

Tingkai is looking at which is more likely to get him killed, which would be the 401 simply because there are more bad drivers.

	26-02-2003 13:38									#224
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Neither is likely to get him killed, since he doesn't live in Canada...

	26-02-2003 13:39									#225
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What you're say is right Obiwan18.

The areas in Ontario I mentioned are also subject to sudden weather changes and it happens a lot. So everyone's driving on a sunny day, traffic is packed together, then a fog bank rolls in and people panic. Next thing you know there's a 40-car pile-up. Same thing happens with whiteouts. Black ice. High winds.

One advantage of driving in the mountains is that most people drive carefully.

	26-02-2003 13:42									#226
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So, sane people are more careful.

That must mean it is not dangerous?

	26-02-2003 13:54									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Just where do you have time to do all this? You worked as an editor for this-paper and that-paper, you were in the CF, you've got a degree, you've lived in the east, you've lived in the west, you live in Hong Kong -- what's next?

Thanks Asher. I mean that sincerely and I hope you take it that way.

I've been thinking a lot lately about my career and how I never got a job at the Globe (an old dream). It was kind of depressing.

But you have just reminded me that I have done a lot in my life. I have lived in many places. I have seen many things. I have learned a lot.

And you don't even know the half of it.

What's next? Hopefully something as interesting as what I have done.

So thanks.

And on that good note, I'll say goodbye for now.

	26-02-2003 13:57									#228
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Goodnight Tingkai.