04-03-2003 21:48									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor As I said, I'm boycotting products I deem to carry cultural imperialism. Edit : and I fail to boycott completely hollywood crap, sad

You know in a round about way, you are still being influienced by America in that you are deliberately changing your habits in response to this cultural imperialism.

BTW. America didn't invent Halloween. We simply put our own little spin on the day. That's all we have really done with most of our so called American Culture. (except maybe music)

	04-03-2003 21:50									#62
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Richelieu :
True. Given my limited skill in English, I tried not to repeat the same syntax errors, for fear of being even less clear thant the troll.
The mail is understandable in French, I wanted to make it understandable in English too

	04-03-2003 21:51									#63
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quote: The Dutch invented Reality TV with "Big Brother". Who else could invent something that perverted ?

First I ever saw of reality TV was "The Real World" on MTV, on for more than a decade before Big Brother was in the US. So, IMO, MTV is more perverted than the dutch... try and argue that.

Cultural Imperialismism? The US is definitly winning on this one. It is kind of like my theory of the Japanese; they couldn't take Hawaii so they just bought it all and built golf courses on them... hehe

In-and-Out is good. I like seeing people with the doctored bumper stickers "In-N-Out Burger+ --> "In-N-Out urge". Makes me laugh.

As for Jack in the Box, I love it. Where else can you get a rice bowl, taco, hamburger, jalopeno poppers, and a root beer float?

I think that Carl's Jr. has gone down hill, at least since they tried that Green Burrito crap.

McD's is awful, but I will still hit it up for breakfast every now and then.

As for the French Boycotting us; oh well.

As for me Boycotting the French: I think I have already unintentionally been doing it, except for CIV of course.

	04-03-2003 21:56									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor The latest example is the lame attempt to adapt Halloween in France, which resulted in the degenaration of this fun party (in the US) into a pathetic consumerist rage by us.

Well, in the last 2 years here, where I live, were also attempts to bring the idea of Halloween closer to the people. With poor success, btw, but anyway. The reason is not some suddenly raised pro-americanism, but the simple fact, that our peasants are great at growing pumpkins and wanted to increase their local sales. Damn commerce!

	04-03-2003 21:56									#65
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Spiff:

Will any amount of American movies make people in france less French?

That's the issue I have with cultural imperialism. I come from Panama (a place the French have many saying about..), and a more bastardized, mongrel place does not exist on earth, as far as I know. "Gringo" culture is everwhere..hell, we use Dollars as our money (even if we stubbornly call it something else) and yet, Panama is Panama: I know it is a different, quirky place with its own feel and culture, no matter how much US goods they use, or how many of the children of the upper class go to US universities. Movies don't make you loose your identity, as long as you think that identity is worth keeping alive. So Swabians use lots of French words..are they more "french" and less swabian for it?

	04-03-2003 21:56									#66
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Spiffor: Is this exclusively an anti-american boycott or do you choose not to purchase or indulge in Brittish or other foreign items as well. Just curious.

	04-03-2003 22:02									#67
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Sprayber :
I only feel overwhelmed by the mass-consuming part of the American culture. I don't boycott any other products (except the Mars company for other reasons).
Also, I'm pretty much open to foreign culture, even if you might think the opposite reading this thread I live in Germany, enjoy all kinds of music including Jazz, watch anime, eat about as much in foreign restaurants as French ones. I also often ask questions to Americans here on specific American cultural references.
I only boycott cultural products that I feel overwhelming / threatening. Currently, only American mass-consuption products apply, but should Japan become as successful as the US is, I would boycott Japanes products that I feel overwhelming/threathening. This applies for any country.

	04-03-2003 22:03									#68
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Will any amount of American movies make people in france less French?

Definitely. My wife forced me to watch a whole series of old French movies. She loves Louis de Funes, Gerard Depardieu, Pierre Richard and alike. Since then, my surrender rate in games was drastically increased.

quote: So Swabians use lots of French words..are they more "french" and less swabian for it?

The German language is full of French words, not only the Swabian. A wallet is everywhere called Portemonnaie. Except in Frankonia, where I live. Here it's called Geldbeutel (money bag).

	04-03-2003 22:05									#69
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Ge :
Those are good questions. I will think about it and answer them later.

	04-03-2003 22:05									#70
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I'm waiting for the Americans to boycott all those french words in the english language, like entrepreneur...

	04-03-2003 22:06									#71
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Wasn't it Bush, who said, that the French have no word for "entrepreneur"? Or is that just a legend?

	04-03-2003 22:08									#72
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Heard that too, but that Bushism has to be a legend. Simply has to.

	04-03-2003 22:11									#73
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Spiffor:

What you term "cultural imperialism" sounds more like high-powereed marketing to me. Most of us here in America just try to ignore that nonsense.

As for "maintaining an agricultural heritage", that's the same argument made in the US by many less productive rural areas. We try to ignore that, and teh subsidies that go with it.

	04-03-2003 22:12									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Sprayber : I only feel overwhelmed by the mass-consuming part of the American culture. I don't boycott any other products (except the Mars company for other reasons). Also, I'm pretty much open to foreign culture, even if you might think the opposite reading this thread I live in Germany, enjoy all kinds of music including Jazz, watch anime, eat about as much in foreign restaurants as French ones. I also often ask questions to Americans here on specific American cultural references. I only boycott cultural products that I feel overwhelming / threatening. Currently, only American mass-consuption products apply, but should Japan become as successful as the US is, I would boycott Japanes products that I feel overwhelming/threathening. This applies for any country.

I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. Just don't give up on the Jazz And try the Blues. It's one of our best exports.

	04-03-2003 22:12									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Wasn't it Bush, who said, that the French have no word for "entrepreneur"? Or is that just a legend?

	04-03-2003 22:13									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Hmmm... let's see... If all Americans boycott French Products, and all the French boycott Americans Products... They French still lose

I heard some dumbass on Crossfire suggest we boycott German products too... I guess that means we have to boycott all Chrysler and Mercedes products. And all the people working in American Daimler/Chrysler auto-plants are traitors!

In a global society, trade boycotts don't just hurt one country, they hurt everyone.

	04-03-2003 22:14									#77
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That sounds dumb enough to be true.

The "magic" of American culture is making something avaliable to the masses, fitting customer tastes as far as they are universal. Men like to see skimpy outfits on women and things blown up: if Americans have the most money and thus are able to do such a thing with better production values, then their goods will be the most popular. The fact is that "culture" is being homogenized world wide, and the US is at best, one big pasteuralization center, where someone like Shakira, a huge seller already comes in and is recycled to fit even more markets. Or look at "Harry Potter", a series about an English boy at an English school written by and Englishwoman, not a single American in sight anywhere, and yet it is the biggets book event of the 1990's. Does that make "Harry Potter" a symbol of British literary imperialism?

	04-03-2003 22:15									#78
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler unless you add Pizza and Mercedes imperialism to your book.

Recent joke in Detroit:
How do you pronounce "Daimiler-Chrysler"?
The "Chrysler" is silent.

	04-03-2003 22:16									#79
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Some clarifications about the language laws in France :

The law doesn't forbid the use of Foreign (read English) words, except in very few occurences. In Summer in Paris, you can still see ads for Disney in English, Spanish or German. Currently, an ad for Evian is airing whose sole words are the lyricis of "We will rock you".
However, the law forces regular speech in ads (not songs) to be subbed in French, even though it can be in small letters. For example, when airbags were a selling factor, the ads displayed "airbag*" ("*coussin de securité" in very small at the bottom of the screen, a word nobody in France uses).

I also think the law forces governments and businesses to use French words in their public communications when there is a French equivalent. The Académie Française (official source of French-speakingness) tries to make French words out of English words, like the laughable "cédérom" from CD-ROM.

Another part of the Toubon defense of French language was to force radio stations to air a given quota of French music. It was softened a bit by the instructions to air new artists (it led to a radical dynamisation of the French musical scene, which really sucked in the 80's) and European music. Of course, there was no quota to air American music

	04-03-2003 22:18									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Ned And, while you are at it, stop using American inventions such as the telephone, TV, computer, internet, plane, electric lights. You have to be consistent with your anti-Americanism.

hey but these were all made by immigrants from europe and other places so please don't be so anti-european

and that mcdonald guy sounds Scottish too... don't be anti-Scotish or the Scots will have you for dinner

	04-03-2003 22:24									#81
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quote: hey but these were all made by immigrants from europe and other places

That's BS. They were Americans. If we go with your logic than we are all Immigrants from Africa...

	04-03-2003 22:37									#82
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This what I don't understand. As far as I know, America has no set limitations to importing foreign films, or to how much of a given language can go over the air, or to what amount of music from a given culture can be played. We certainly don't require business signs to be in any given language, and we go out of our way to make sure that government documentation can be read by those who don't speak english.

If we were being aggresively culturally imperialist, I would expect to see the opposite, but I don't.

	04-03-2003 22:42									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor However, the law forces regular speech in ads (not songs) to be subbed in French, even though it can be in small letters.

Oddly enough, must german TV ads get dubbed with austrian speakers for the same words here, as the softer pronounciation we are used to sells better. (And no, there is no law requiring that)

quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith As for "maintaining an agricultural heritage", that's the same argument made in the US by many less productive rural areas. We try to ignore that, and teh subsidies that go with it.

For us the agricultural landscape is a big issue for tourism, and subsidies get moved more into that direction. The latest US subsidies package is more oriented towards benefitting large producers and exporters, is it not....

	04-03-2003 22:42									#84
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TMM :
No other country or culture has the same amount of cultural agressiveness than yours right now, which explains why there isn't protection to American culture in the US.
However, some people in the south start feeling overwhelmed by Mexicans and by the Spanish language. It is possible the American society remained as multicultural as before, but it is also reasonable to expect these people will make laws to protect their culture they feel threatened by the Mexican "invasion".
The Spanization of southern US is what strikes me as the most similar example you have of a cultural invasion, even thiough it remains quite different. You can understand people and laws can become defensive in such circumstances.

	04-03-2003 22:44									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Wasn't it Bush, who said, that the French have no word for "entrepreneur"? Or is that just a legend?

Good one Sir Ralph

	04-03-2003 22:49									#86
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Oddly enough, must german TV ads get dubbed with austrian speakers for the same words here, as the softer pronounciation we are used to sells better. (And no, there is no law requiring that) For us the agricultural landscape is a big issue for tourism, and subsidies get moved more into that direction. The latest US subsidies package is more oriented towards benefitting large producers and exporters, is it not....

It benefits all farmes, but since farms are being more and more corporate owned you have a point. And it's not the farmers who export, it's the exporting corporation.

	04-03-2003 22:51									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor TMM : No other country or culture has the same amount of cultural agressiveness than yours right now, which explains why there isn't protection to American culture in the US. However, some people in the south start feeling overwhelmed by Mexicans and by the Spanish language. It is possible the American society remained as multicultural as before, but it is also reasonable to expect these people will make laws to protect their culture they feel threatened by the Mexican "invasion". The Spanization of southern US is what strikes me as the most similar example you have of a cultural invasion, even thiough it remains quite different. You can understand people and laws can become defensive in such circumstances.

Absolutely, just as I understand that it's not deliberate on the part of hispanics.

	04-03-2003 22:51									#89
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Spiffer:

I don't think that our adversion to the Mexicans and/or Spanish language is an issue of cultural invasion. This may have a part, but is really small. The issue is more along economic lines, and the cost that will entale to have bilingual education in these boarder states.

I have no problem picking up a few words in Spanish so that I can interact better with my friends, but I do have a problem paying for special programs for these ppl who live in CA, have kids in CA, and when those kids are 6 y.o.a. still can't speak english well enough to go to "normal" schools. Then they whine that schools should be in both languages.

It really has nothing to do with the Mexican cultrue, something which I love and enjoy having in my life. It has to responsibility to society and money (as is everything in the US).

	04-03-2003 22:52									#90
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK It benefits all farmes, but since farms are being more and more corporate owned you have a point. And it's not the farmers who export, it's the exporting corporation.

It benefits all farmers, sure, but if it subsidises simple quantity, the bigger ones gain more.