07-03-2003 19:38									#91
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I think the lack of story is what is turning me off of a lot of TBS games. Civ3 lacked any sense of momentum or flow from the beginning of the game to the end. There aren't any cut scenes, events, or anything other than just plodding along the course. One of the things I like most about studying history is that there is indeed a real story to man, and one can get a sense of a general flow of history, a movement towards...well, something. Alpha Centauri is the last TBS I played that really accomplished this, and I was sad Civ3 didn't take its lesson from it. You'd think it would be easier with Civ, since so much of the story is already known instead of made up!

Boris,

How would you compare Civ 3 to Civ2 in tht respect?? (IE story) The unmodded Civ2 did not have events, etc but there is a very strong movement toward something - a constant dialectical movement, (eg industrialization creates pollution, which requires a movement toward higher tech to deal with, and more importantly a movement towards higher political forms - for more detail see my column "Civ2's Hegelian tech tree") My sense from what i have read is that Civ3, while adding certain elements for the sake of hisotrical accuracy, has lost the overall view of history that charecterized Civ2.

	07-03-2003 19:52									#92
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Boris, How would you compare Civ 3 to Civ2 in tht respect?? (IE story) The unmodded Civ2 did not have events, etc but there is a very strong movement toward something - a constant dialectical movement, (eg industrialization creates pollution, which requires a movement toward higher tech to deal with, and more importantly a movement towards higher political forms - for more detail see my column "Civ2's Hegelian tech tree") My sense from what i have read is that Civ3, while adding certain elements for the sake of hisotrical accuracy, has lost the overall view of history that charecterized Civ2.

I would more or less agree with that sentiment. I do enjoy Civ3 and can't go back to Civ2 now, because the ability to mod Civ3 is just so great, plus you get the resources function which I think is a terrific addition to the game.

But Civ3 was skimpy on cut scenes and really lacked a sense of a historical epicness. Winning the game is so damn anticlimatic. A little text window saying "You've won!" and then the silly after game screens...it was kinda insulting. No sense that you've built an empire that lasted through history!

The same goes for most of the game in terms of the advisors. Far too cartoony, kinda like why I disliked SimCity 3000. It was a let down, considering how AC was really good at creating a sense of scope and direction.

My hunch is that the Civ3 design team had too many programmers and not enough historians.

	07-03-2003 20:09									#93
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I do enjoy Civ3 and can't go back to Civ2 now, because the ability to mod Civ3 is just so great

???

I prefer Civ3 to Civ2 too, but something that almost everyone can agree on is that Civ3 is a step backwards from Civ2 in terms of mod-making.

What makes you prefer the mod capabilities of Civ3 over Civ2?

	07-03-2003 20:16									#94
	Support Apolyton

You guys are *exactly* who we're looking for when the CB beta is ready....exactly.

-=Vel=-

	07-03-2003 20:20									#95
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

CB? is that some kind of game involving a CONVOY CONVOY WERE GONNA HAVE A CONVOY!

	07-03-2003 20:30									#96
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet ??? I prefer Civ3 to Civ2 too, but something that almost everyone can agree on is that Civ3 is a step backwards from Civ2 in terms of mod-making. What makes you prefer the mod capabilities of Civ3 over Civ2?

The fact that you can alter pretty much ANY rule of the game...the editor lets you change far more factors more easily than in Civ2. I don't know about you, but having the GUI interface for altering that stuff beats out the rules.txt method any day, IMO.

Now, adding new units and stuff is a royal pain, but once you get the hang of it, it's not so bad. Certainly not all that more complicated than adding a unit in Civ2. The problem is getting the animated files, of course. But I don't usually create things like that, just download what I want and insert it in.