25-03-2003 22:11									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yah, we do need to fight

but do we have to pay it (All) back?

I think lego is taking advantage of us

Jon Miller

	26-03-2003 01:13									#32
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Interesting note from vondrack, including his take on the Bobians.

Hi, Beta!

Well... regarding GoW and RPers... I do not really think either of them is in a position to wage war effectively. Once you look at the map, you will realize that GoW most probably "lacks the punch"... missing a key resource (you probably noticed Togas' note in the public forum)... likely to be unable to obtain it from any of the two remaining Bobian civs...

RPers are said to have a large military, but a little bit defensively oriented and currently in the process of massively upgrading warriors to swordsmen (besides, they consider other Bobians their main competitors). If I was to assess the situation, I would seriously consider only ND... but then, I can always be wrong, so take my "feelings" and "impressions" with a grain of salt.

I'd say that if you appease or "keep involved to a limited extent only" GoW and RP (and I believe that it should be possible, if you are generous enough - especially GoW seem to be "appeasable" if you throw in Monotheism... and RPers are less than keen on waging wars over the part of Bob you landed upon - just see the map), there will be only one enemy left for you - ND. After all, ND is more of a threat for GoW & RPers than you ATM...

However... as long as trusting anyone... now that is difficult to say. Out of my experience, I tend to trust GhengisFarb (GoW). So far, he's been very trustworthy and always stood in his word. I am not sure if saying the same about RPers would be 100% correct... even though our relations with them are quite fine now.

Be careful... that's the best advice I can give you... not much, I know...

Cheers,
Radek

quote:
Hi vondrack. I am at work right now - and can't confirm until later today. I got your pm with the written deal. Thank-you very much. Should be no problem in ratifying it.

BTW - has your view changed at all regarding RP. We are engaged in some pretty heavy duty discussions right now with the Bobians, and it is difficult to figure out what is up, and who to trust.

GoW and NeuD have declared war on us. we are continuing to talk, and trying to decide whether we stay and make a fight of it - or call it a day. Should be interesting if it is the former. .... Beta.
quote:

vondrack wrote on 25-03-2003 10:53:
Hi!

Just briefly checking if you got the email I sent you about an hour ago. It had a HUGE attachment (the full scale map and the chatlog) and I am not 100% sure if your mailbox was large enough to absorb it.

Cheers,
Radek

P.S.: I am really glad that Togas and GF revealed the lux/resource standings of their lands in public... now it is easier to cover the fact that you know what they were talking about from the map I sent you... since it might be considered to be an educated guess...

	26-03-2003 02:02									#33
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Interesting indeed....

	26-03-2003 03:05									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I can handle very large attachments so he can send it to me, if it is too large?

	26-03-2003 04:30									#35
	Inflate your Upload Space

hmm

with this map I think that the deal with Lego is good

(200 gold plus map for 150 gold (later) plus monotheism)

Jon Miller

	26-03-2003 06:43									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I agree, especially since we are also getting money off Mono from others. Unfortunately, I can not take a look at the map until I get home.

	26-03-2003 07:02									#37
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller hmm with this map I think that the deal with Lego is good (200 gold plus map for 150 gold (later) plus monotheism) Jon Miller

- plus it ensures indirectly that we get currency, contsruction, and republic - a deal which was in somehat doubt - and it covers our tracks with GS - and it builds longr-term good-will with Lego.

	27-03-2003 22:06									#38
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Agreement signed by Lego and us.

RE: agreement
quote:
Vox-Lego Monotheism Trade Agreement of 1050BC

Hereby, Vox Controli and Legoland agree upon that:

1) Legoland will provide Vox Controli with 100 gold at its earliest convenience (no later than on its Turn 81, so that Vox Controli receives the money on its Turn 82).

2) Vox Controli will provide Legoland with the "free" technology granted to scientific civilizations upon entering the medieval ages (most probably Monotheism in this case) on the very turn Vox Controli receives it.

3) Legoland will provide Vox Controli with 100 more gold immediately upon the receipt of the "free medieval" technology mentioned in the previous paragraph.

4) Vox Controli will repay 150 gold back to Legoland within 30 turns of receiving the second part of the "loan" (see the previous paragraph).

5) Both teams agree that it may be possible to negotiate using a technology to repay part or whole of the 150 gold "loan".

6) Legoland will not be allowed to resell/trade/gift the technology received from Vox Controli, unless expressly authorized by an amendment to this trade agreement.

7) Both teams agree to disclose no details of this trade agreement to a third party.

Signed BetaHound, Voice of Foreign Affairs, and Director of the Voxian Economic Council, Vox Controli. 1050BC


Signed vondrack, The President of Legoland, 1050BC

	27-03-2003 23:30									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Wow! It looks our war plans with GS is coming on strong! Using cash to upgrade units is brillant instead of the long time it would take to build the units. Cash is the best way!

	28-03-2003 08:47									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Talked with vondrack this evening - our first instalment of cash is coming this turn or the next.

	30-03-2003 21:02									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Received from vondrack today. Looks like the deal is proceeding - and the good news is they are pulling more cash out of GS.

RE: ptwdg - turn


Yeah, we did get the save... but as we discovered Currency on the previous turn (and consequently went medieval), we have been sort of... ahem... "finalizing" our trade agreement with GS. It was unbelievably funny - how their point of view and approach changed when they realized they were completely wrong in their assumptions... All of a sudden their superiority was completely gone... I enjoyed our correspondence with DeepO big time yesterday. Prior to us "illustrating" the situation by "sending", but not "accepting" C+C to them, they were talking about that the deal would actually end up in our favour, if we simply swapped C+C for the Republic... in the end, after checking we were the only source of Currency and the only source of Construction in the whole world, they were happy to pay 80 extra gold to balance the deal... I almost died from laughing. But this is exactly what they deserved for trying to rip us off...

Thankfully, the treaties are now signed and ratified (I am just playing the turn) and unless GS intentionally delays providing Curr+Constr to you, you should receive it from them on this very turn (resale rights specifically granted to them). Let me know if they do not provide it to you, we would have to adjust our strategy accordingly (but do not tell them I told you ).

We will have the next payment of 100 gold ready on the next turn, no problem - provide us with Monotheism and 100 gold is with you immediately.

Cheers,
Radek

	07-04-2003 02:33									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Had a lengthy chat with Nimitz from Lego this afternoon.

They are negotiating with GS for feudalism. They are now aware of our plans. They wish us luck.

GS informed them that they would have feudalism in 8 turns, 4 at their fastest research rate. But that they would only do that if they had deals in the works.

They are postponing any deal with GS - and will not buy feudalism from them. This is to directly support our efforts.

There would appear to be future money on the table in the way of a loan.

And I hinted at a long-term alliiance - as it long-term to the end of the game.

Eli and I started chatting about long-term alliances. We should start a thread to discuss them in greater detail.

	10-04-2003 03:24									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Does Lego have a harbor and do they have extra horses they could send our way?

	10-04-2003 03:49									#45
	Support Apolyton

Hmm - good question. We would need to get a harbor in quickly. They are not cheap. Pop rush?

	10-04-2003 04:41									#46
	Tired of ads?

In which city? I think it depends on how well our campaign is going. I rather have a city building reinforcements than sacrifising a lot for a harbor... I don't know... It's a good subject for debate.

	10-04-2003 05:37									#47
	Put an end to popups!

The best city to pop-rush is Dissidentville but with the road cut we wouldn't be able to produce many horsemen.

The horsemen would be nice to take out the chariots. Many of the chariots will just retreat from our Immortals and just come back after healing.

All of this may be moot if there are no horses to be had.

	10-04-2003 08:29									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I hardly ever use horseman, do they blitz?

	10-04-2003 08:40									#49
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm sort of with Kon on this one. A harbor is an expensive build. 80 shields. That's 8 Immortals via the upgrade approach.

argha - Harry is right - Horsemen would be very useful for cutting down wounded - or even whole - chariots. That is one of the reasons we could have used the 4 GoW horsemen landing and accompanying our troops down.

But - we don't have horses. sigh..

	10-04-2003 22:41									#50
	Suffering from ads?

Part 1 is to build the harbor. Part 2 (which may be the most difficult) is to find a horses source via trade. It might cost us a lot, which I think we are not ready to invest.

	11-04-2003 00:17									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Depends on where we can get the horses from. They may come cheap since everyone says they are willing to support us in some way to help in our war with GS. I do not want to waste the time and shields to build a harbor if there are no horses available. I would like to find out if a trade is even possible first.

	11-04-2003 00:18									#52
	Support Apolyton

I don't think that GS has horses...

and the only one who can give them that I know is RP

and I don't trust RP

let's just use immortals

Jon Miller

	11-04-2003 01:14									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: I don't think that GS has horses...

You mis-read. We are talking about asking Lego. According to our world map RP does not have extra horses. ND does but they do not have a harbor and I wouldn't want to ask them anyway. We don't know enough about what Lego has so that is why I suggested asking them.

	11-04-2003 01:34									#54
	Tired of ads?

no

I talked to nbarclay

I don't think that GS has horses

have we seen a chariot....

Jon Miller

	11-04-2003 01:34									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I know that back when they liked us

they said they had none to trade

but seemed worried about even saying that

Jon Miller

	11-04-2003 01:43									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

GS does have charroits, that is a fact. We could see one in their capital

	11-04-2003 02:12									#57
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think they have only the one.

	11-04-2003 06:43									#58
	Tired of ads?

Yes, GS's capital shows a Chariot garrisoned within and 1 horse and 1 iron in their strategic box.

	11-04-2003 13:27									#59
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

the point they can and will build them.

	11-04-2003 18:47									#60
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yup - and chariots are my biggest concern. They are cheap and good counter-attack units, especially with a road network.

Pikemen and Med Infantry are slower to close for battle - and much more expensive. Our immortals can still deal with them to boot.