11-03-2003 07:11									#91
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Wow Panag these are great... good work.

BTW I assume these leaflets are in sanscit, but just posted on the internet in English so english readers can read them.

BTW, after looking at these, I think they are fairly effective.... except the one that says think of your family, that one has the potential to actually make them stay and fight. Humans really fear change, even if their current situation is miserable.

	11-03-2003 07:17									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse The leaflets are in English? Jeez, that will be effective

AH: Psyop always writes them first in English so that the chain of command can read them and then once the product is approved it is translated, reviewed by a test audience, then (if all goes well) it is destributed to the target audience.

	11-03-2003 07:19									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi "Why not in 1998? " The US was led by a person of moral cowardice. That person tried limited actions such as Operation Desert Fox to ensure compliance, but said person was unable to take the actions needed to uphold the demand for disarmanent.

"he stressed the assault had been launched on the "unanimous recommendation" of his national security advisors. " form Guardian.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/01-18-99/war.htm

I'd recommend to look at some European news after half year and later about inspectors that spied on Iraq.

Yes and strikes was mostly against empty sites.
Impeachment could give some bravery.

	11-03-2003 07:27									#94
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quote: Originally posted by raghar I'm disgraphic and I would be ashemed of myself if I'd draw such shity pictures. (sorry Ming) Most thing from this pictures is uter crap and if anybody would believe them he should be for sometime without food just to clear his mind. There is a lot of US wishfull thinking and from millitary view there is a lot of xxxxxxx (I think Ming would be offended by another ugly word) bad informations TM. If Iraqui would do excactly what they are told to not, US showed them a lot of uducational pictures. panaq be a little mercifull to people without ADSL. Use better comprimation.

I dont understand your position. Why do you say they are crap?

	11-03-2003 07:28									#95
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Military optic fiber....
I think that US should remove it from its soil ASAP or Sadam could brainwash US people.

Last edited by raghar on 11-03-2003 at 07:39

	11-03-2003 07:32									#96
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Another interesting thing about this propoganda is that it does a lot of threatening of their lives....

Reminds me of the Russian pill boxes set up behind Russian lines to mow down the poor Russian soldiers with no rifles who tried to retreat.

Hussein Admires Stalin... and I am sure he is "motivating" his troops the same way, as far as the Iraqi soldier knows, fight the Americans, and you might die, turn and run and Saddam will surely have you killed before you make it home. No more mister nice guy this time.

Nobody has ever started an Aggresive war thinking they would lose. I think Saddam's surprises may set America on it's heals. He has plotted this for 12 years now, focused, determined to get the Americans back. He is holding his hand I believe.

I really wonder if he would be crazy enough to try and Invade Israel through Jordan, only an invasion could stop nukes from being dropped on his Army. Especially now that the Northern front does not appear to be a problem anymore.

A war like this will require ground forces in the end, all the way to Baghdad. If you think the American Generals are confident of their victory, just look at how many troops they have in the middle East right now...

Enough rambling for now...

	11-03-2003 07:35									#97
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I think they are crap because.
They are poorly made. Every person with military educetion would think about them .
And they remminds me about another leaflets... leaflets about Usame bin Laden.


I'm sleepy brain doesn't work well. Just my instinct do.

	11-03-2003 07:47									#98
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They should drop leaflets saying:

"Wouldn't you rather be on the Apolyton OT right now?"

	11-03-2003 07:55									#99
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quote: Originally posted by NeOmega Another interesting thing about this propoganda is that it does a lot of threatening of their lives....

As someone who spent several years involved with stuff just like this let me say you work on the other sides fears. Fears motivates people very powerfully, especially when someone thinks he's fear is close to becoming a reality. Thus if you are trying to get an enemy soldier to do something, first you tell him what you want him to do, then you show him how his fears will come true if he doesn't.

It may sound lame reading them while you are in your house, warm, and away from danger but once you are truly facing (and have seen friends die) you begin to listen a little more closely to messages like these.

	11-03-2003 08:27									#100
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quote: Originally posted by raghar I think they are crap because. They are poorly made. Every person with military educetion would think about them . And they remminds me about another leaflets... leaflets about Usame bin Laden. I'm sleepy brain doesn't work well. Just my instinct do.

o...k. They are rather well made, and they get their message across very well. Perhaps you are right about anyone with a military education will think about them, but anyone with a psychological education would understand their point.

	11-03-2003 08:45									#101
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What the f**k is wrong with you people?

They're terrible. You know I remember looking at old WW1 propaganda and thinking, "how could anybody be taken in by this c**p?". And this stuff is no different. Surely they could have come up with something better. What's wrong with "if you surrender, you will be fed and treated humanely." Add to that a picture of a nice cake and a naked woman (caption: have you had your last ****?) and I reckon you'd convert anyone who had to sit in a piss-filled shell hole.

	11-03-2003 08:48									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon What the f**k is wrong with you people? They're terrible. You know I remember looking at old WW1 propaganda and thinking, "how could anybody be taken in by this c**p?". And this stuff is no different. Surely they could have come up with something better. What's wrong with "if you surrender, you will be fed and treated humanely." Add to that a picture of a nice cake and a naked woman (caption: have you had your last ****?) and I reckon you'd convert anyone who had to sit in a piss-filled shell hole.

that would be propaganda and blatant lying.

These leaflets tell truthfully what will happen to them, and motivate just as much. The leaflets' messages are not belligerent or malicious, they simply give warnings.

	11-03-2003 08:51									#103
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Bah, just drop some copies of Upskirting Magazine.

	11-03-2003 08:59									#104
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They're lame. Really lame.

	11-03-2003 09:01									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It may sound lame reading them while you are in your house, warm, and away from danger but once you are truly facing (and have seen friends die) you begin to listen a little more closely to messages like these.

I must admit I am a little insulted.

Please do not talk down to me until you have read my full post and understood it.

I clearly understand fear is a good..... and the most effective motivater.

What I also said is Saddam has more fear over his soldiers than these leaflets do.

EDIT: I may have misinterepereted your tone.

quote: They're terrible. You know I remember looking at old WW1 propaganda and thinking, "how could anybody be taken in by this c**p?". And this stuff is no different. Surely they could have come up with something better. What's wrong with "if you surrender, you will be fed and treated humanely." Add to that a picture of a nice cake and a naked woman (caption: have you had your last ****?) and I reckon you'd convert anyone who had to sit in a piss-filled shell hole.

The average uneducated or poorly educated conscript Iraqi soldier could be taken by this "crp".
But I think the reason the Americans are using fear instead of a "positive" message is because they are afraid of the Iraqi will to fight.
I doubt most top brass believe the Iraqis will give up so easily this time around.

	11-03-2003 09:02									#106
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The reason why we don't suggest that they surrender is that this go around, we will just bypass those who are sitting out the conflict.

	11-03-2003 09:08									#107
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I love it when people talk about the "uneducated" as if not getting a high school education would deprive people of common sense. You don't need to be well educated to get "if you lay down your arms you will be treated well." - that's common sense.

	11-03-2003 09:33									#108
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does anywhere have a link to the real story?

	11-03-2003 11:43									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I love it when people talk about the "uneducated" as if not getting a high school education would deprive people of common sense. You don't need to be well educated to get "if you lay down your arms you will be treated well." - that's common sense.

The reason I said uneducated is because the soldier may not recognize it as propoganda....

I mean do you think in the 40's when WW II propoganada was being spread around that peopel were like "geez I'm being propogated, well I'll just ignore that"

The more educated know propoganda when they see it, even if it is in it's newer glossier shinier form. I mean don't give people too much credit, they are all excited about this "Showdown with Saddam" in the "Countdown to Iraq" which will be a "target Iraq", and all other glitzy forms of braodcasting.

	11-03-2003 11:53									#110
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I would think Iraq remembers the humiliation its military recieved. This is just a reminder we are prepared to do it again.

Last edited by Shi Huangdi on 11-03-2003 at 12:11

	12-03-2003 10:31									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse The leaflets are in English? Jeez, that will be effective

hi ,

all of them are dropped in english and in arab , .....

have a nice day

	12-03-2003 10:32									#112
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and here is the english version , ....

Attachment: iraq-lflt_izd-005eng.jpg
This has been downloaded 21 time(s).

	12-03-2003 11:34									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Surely they could have come up with something better. What's wrong with "if you surrender, you will be fed and treated humanely." Add to that a picture of a nice cake and a naked woman (caption: have you had your last ****?) and I reckon you'd convert anyone who had to sit in a piss-filled shell hole.

That is actually another very common theme. In WW2 the allies dropped leaflets saying "This pass entitles the barer to three hot meals a day, a warm bed, and safety" at the bottom was General Eisenhower's name. Believe it or not alot of German and Italian soldiers surrendered and said to their captures "I have a pass signed by Gen. Eisenhower".

In Gulf War I they did the same thing but said Saudi King Fizal Saud offers his hospitality to any Iraqi who wishes to flee Saddam's tyrrany. It worked like a charm. The most common themes are to get a soldier to surrender, disert, sow desention between officers & enlisted or between different ethnic groups, counter enmey propaganda, offer rewards, and stuff like that. Also remember that usually there is a whole campaign and useually they start small (like trying to harm enemy moral) then the move up (disert or go sick leave) and after they've taken a pounding and soldiers are near by the go for the "surrender and live/think of your family" type things.

	12-03-2003 11:37									#114
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A personnal favorite was a WW2 German leaflet which on the front showed a hot blond girl and the words "Gentlemen prefer blonds" Then on the back there was a picture of a man with only one leg and the words "but blonds don't prefer cripples". There was a whole pysop campaign that followed and apparently it was the most successful Nazi Psyop campaign agains the western allies during the war.