12-03-2003 14:48									#31
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In all honesty, I like my proposal more. Not because it's mine, honest We just don't know how many turns did the ND invested in Currency already and how quick they can discover it. Furthermore, nobody seems to research Construction yet. The problem is, should we get beaten on Currency, we have nothing to trade with.

Edit: you are right however that this is too much money for the GoW. I'm trying to figure out how could we modify it slightly, to keep it attractive for them.

Anyway, I'd like to hear other opinions, too.

Last edited by Tiberius on 12-03-2003 at 15:38

	12-03-2003 17:13									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Darekill Old news! We have already allied with RP to get rid of this GoW Pest.......

I don't know whether this is a joke or not (half-truth, IMHO), but the more I hear about Bob, the more I feel like helping the GoW wouldn't be such a bad thing (for now).

	12-03-2003 17:43									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I don't know whether this is a joke or not (half-truth, IMHO), but the more I hear about Bob, the more I feel like helping the GoW wouldn't be such a bad thing (for now).

I bet it's just kidding... RPers would have to completely lose their mind to ally against GoW. They would have absolutely nothing to gain (especially because GoW's territory is so far away from RPers core that it would be useless to them), while keeping GoW alive helps RPers a lot, as ND has two targets instead of just one and has to consider two fronts.

I do not believe this a single bit... with the exception that RPers may simply not oppose ND wiping out GoW. But that I would not call an alliance.

Helping GoW is double-edged... we would help them hold longer on against ND (which would be good), but at the same time we would help them grow stronger, while being one of their natural targets (which are us and ND, due to the geographical distribution).

Tough call...

	12-03-2003 18:24									#34
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We could switch later, and help the ND, should the GoW become too powerful. But you're right: tough call.

	14-03-2003 22:06									#35
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quote: Redstar1, a few comments. It has been very busy lately, I hope to catch up this weekend on all the diplo talk. We have been working on a proposal for you, but it hasn't finalized yet... one thing is for certain, we will offer republic as a trade to you. Currency would certainly be a worthy thing to trade to republic (compensated to reflect the lower cost, of course), and I'm glad you choose it. It will make it possible for us to be a bit less hurried on signing a deal, as it should give us at least a few turns of room to negotiate further. It might be best to don't start negotiating it away to other teams before the time is right. We have been thinking on making a pure tech trade between us, and dividing the market afterwards between ourselves. It looks like you got good contacts with RP and GoW for republic, so we were thinking on letting you exploit those contacts to its fullest, while we take care of Vox and ND. As long as each of us gets about half of the total gain from republic, we would be happy. Judging from your research speed, it looks like the both of us are best in research, so we should exploit that advantage to the max. And it seems that the best way to proceed is if both of us can get republic, and the last 3 missing techs as part of the resulting trade. We were thinking on keeping republic to our own, but in this case we wouldn't have enough resources to purchase the 3 techs (or, if you take currency, the other 2). But details need to be worked out, it might be possible to delay the other teams a little. Re: CoL from GoW: we were thinking on how we could ask GoW on what happened with CoL, when we got contacted by them, to tell us they made a mistake. It's a positive sign, if they would have remained silent, it would look a lot worse. Compensation is under negotiation, we indicated very clearly to them that we did expect the deal with you to go through without delay, because otherwise they would break another deal, and we could be blamed by you for GoW's mistake. One question though: did you tell them there was a problem, or did they found out for themselves, and contacted you afterwards? It would make a difference on our next contacts with GoW. Please clarify one thing with me, what do you mean with decisions regarding your contact? I don't fully understand... DeepO quote: DeepO, Apologies for the very late response. We have been having some heated discussions on our forums about how to proceed I think we realise that we have currently very little to offer apart from a small treasury of gold consficated from the numerous barbarian camps we come across. We have decided to research Currency in order to pass the time Incidently, have you made any decisions regarding our contact? Redstar1

	14-03-2003 22:08									#36
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This is very promising indeed..... It looks like GS are offering us a deal whereby we give them Currency and X gold, in exchange we get Republic with rights to trade to GOW and RP. Not bad at all!

As for GOW... we would have to discuss with them of course but I would be happy not mentioning our involvement. Perhaps drafting a vague reply as:

'As I understand it we did not make representations to GOW about the issue as we did not want to see it become a problem. We are glad however that things are being sorted out as we do not wish to be the cause of conflict'.

Or something like that

	14-03-2003 22:24									#37
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 This is very promising indeed..... It looks like GS are offering us a deal whereby we give them Currency and X gold, in exchange we get Republic with rights to trade to GOW and RP. Not bad at all! As for GOW... we would have to discuss with them of course but I would be happy not mentioning our involvement. Perhaps drafting a vague reply as: 'As I understand it we did not make representations to GOW about the issue as we did not want to see it become a problem. We are glad however that things are being sorted out as we do not wish to be the cause of conflict'. Or something like that

I agree, this looks awesome.

I would diplomatically indicate that we "helped GoW realize" their mistake, just "mentioning" whether they checked all the no-whore clauses. I would specifically ask GS to keep this info to themselves and stress that GoW is to be trusted, since they immediately admitted their fault and promptly started working out a fair compensation.

This should not do too much harm to GoW, plus it would help us look better. Plus, it would hopefully make GS more willing to trade with us, instead of GoW. If we and GS become THE partners, with RPers and GoW our sphere of influence and Vox/ND theirs, that would serve our purpose great, I believe.

	15-03-2003 00:10									#38
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I would just like to clarify the reasons for my actions as GS ambassador.

First, despite my rare posting, I read the Legoland forums every day. Nevertheless, I am often 'out of the loop' due to turn chats happening around midnight in my time zone,

When I became GS ambassador DeepO and I exchanged several preliminary PMs. Then, about the time of the mini-map trade, I lost my connection to the internet. I was gone for about a month, though the only GS deal during that time was the mini-map trade. When I returned I set up a chat to steer GS away from building the great lighthouse (which was a big deal at the time).

After the chat things were quiet for awhile. Then I recieved a PM suggesting a deal that, in light of the GoW deal, we would be unlikely to accept. I did my best to politely decline the offer but encourage future trades.
I then found out that the deal was several steps into negotiations with redstar. Because of redstar being in on the deal from the start, I decided to drop out of negotiations and let redstar finish it. To be honest, I am not sure why I got a PM half way through the process since it was started without me.

I am unsure what should be done about the GS ambassadorship after this deal is done. I am ready to step back in as ambassador, but I am willing to let redstar continue if that is what he and the team want.
I can see that my somtimes being uninformed due to not being at chats could be a problem.

BTW, this is the second time I have written this as my computer restarted for some reason after writting it the first time. Since I had to copy it down from memory some parts may be unclear.

	15-03-2003 02:05									#39
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Hey mate...

Theres no problem with you as GS ambassador... I think I was pm'd initially because they thought I was still FM for Legoland...

I think the problem at the minute is we have just got contact and so all the teams are trying to muscle in on us and work out deals. This means they have to be done quickly and decisions have to be made quickly. however all that is going to be coming to an end soon and so things will not be as urgent anymore. I for one appreciate that others aren't online as much as I am but I'm not going to take any credit for anything. As far as I'm concerned its a team effort and every little bit helps, every opinion is valid. You mention about the chats. Theres nothing official but myself and vondrack tend to talk to each other through the day and discuss things. Nimitz too pops in.

In essence I think we are all happy for you to continue as GS ambassador but of course that decision is up to Nimitz

	15-03-2003 02:40									#40
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If your around and can do the job of course I'm going to keep you. If Redstar will let you you can take over these negotiations with GS.

	15-03-2003 22:22									#41
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I think it would be an unnecessary complication if I took over these negotiations, since redstar started them. I will, however, gladly resume my post as GS ambassador when this deal is finished.

	16-03-2003 03:13									#42
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Message sent to DeepO...

quote: DeepO, Apologies for the late response but a few members of our team have been away and we wanted to take the oppurtunity to discuss your proposals in full. On the contact front I had meant 'had you thought about purchasing our contact anymore?'. This is perhaps a mute point now as we have agreed a price with ND for your own contact. As for your proposals.. we certainly feel that Currency plus a cash sum would be a fair trade for Republic. Perhaps we can start negociating a fair cash price. We are also prepared to consider your proposal for spheres of influence regarding trade. It seems to us like a sensible and advantageous idea. As an aside to this, we would most likely be able to acquire construction in exchange for Republic, from GOW. As regards the CoL issue, yes, we did mention that a problem had arisen but we would like to stress that GOW immediately realised their mistake and contacted you to discuss the issue. We would like to add that we consider this a sign of trustworthiness and mistakes, after all, do happen. We trust all is well? Last point is that as we are purchasing your contact from ND, would it be possible for you to sell our own contact on to Vox? Vox will complete our diplomatic deck of cards so to speak. Nice to talk again and hopefully we will have many fruitful discussions in the future! Redstar1

	16-03-2003 20:08									#43
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quote: Hi redstar1, I can imagine this deal requires a bit of discussion, the same happens here. It pleases me that you are positive to it, as ar our people, with mere details to discuss. One idea was to take the tech swap one step further, where the deal would become currency+construction for republic+polytheism (maybe some compensation needed, if there is a difference in beaker cost... I don't know the numbers by heart). We should be possible to trade for polytheism, if you're getting construction, we can both get to the middle age simultaneously. Re: our contacts: I hope the deal between you and ND is not unrevokable: we are already in contact. Last turn, we got your contact (quite unexpectedly BTW, we were still negotiationg price) from GoW, as part of their compensation. I don't know the specifics of your deal with ND, so I don't know if you can still back out, but please don't spend money on buying baked air You're right about Vox, though, I'll warn our ambassador that he is supposed to sell your contact to Vox, no matter how low the price would go. Last comment on the CoL scandal: It's resolved now. Personally I don't think it was intentional, but it was unfortunate and did leave a memory behind. Knowing the specifics to how they figured it out was importantly though, as they did not tell us this, they tried to cover it up some more... See you soon, DeepO

	18-03-2003 18:47									#44
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May I suggest that whoever will attend the scheduled chat with the GS, do not, I repeat, if possible do not talk about treaties and trades with other teams (other than the Vox part). Stick to the GS deal. They don't need to know what agreements we have with the GoW, for example. They might not like it that part.

In the last chat, the biggest problem seemed to be the GoW's unhappiness about our trade with the GS. We should try to avoid this.

Of course, if they ask...better be honest.

	18-03-2003 20:49									#45
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what chat?

	18-03-2003 20:52									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Nimitz what chat?

Glad you asked. There is a chat scheduled with GS for 8:00pm GMT today (message from DeepO came few hours ago). It would be great if you and quantum_mechani show up, too - GS would be able to see we are serious about cooperating with them and serious about the deal.

	19-03-2003 02:51									#47
	GS chat (Tuesday, March 18) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

OK, here is the log of the chat held with DeepO and zeit of Gathering Storm today (only very slightly edited):

Part 1:

quote: Session Start: Tue Mar 18 20:45:49 2003 Session Ident: #LeGS DeepO: so... first things first, how would you like a pure tech deal DeepO: in that you somehow get us cons+curr, we give repu+ polyt DeepO: with a bit of a compensation for the difference in beaker costs quantum_mechani: hmm... I think we already have poly vondrack: yes, we do, DeepO DeepO: ok, so what about the same, buut gold on our side with repu, for the 2 others? vondrack: actually, we planned to be a bit nicer to you DeepO: you were? zeit: please elaborate... vondrack: we'd be happy to trade Curr+Const for Rep vondrack: in case you let us vondrack: trade Rep to GoW and RPers later DeepO: that sounds good vondrack: and do not mind us trading with Voxes DeepO: one sec DeepO: RP and GoW: no problem DeepO: if you leave us ND and Vox vondrack: that would be a problem... I will explain DeepO: and possibly, if we delay trading rep away for 1 turn after we both got it vondrack: Voxes are scientific vondrack: they get a free tech once they entered medieval times DeepO: true vondrack: we'd like to have a chance trading for it DeepO: we're misunderstanding each other, I think vondrack: so that in the end, Lego, GS, and Voxes start from the same point in the medieval times DeepO: aha quantum_mechani: sorry, I know I am supposed to be doing the talking but I can't keep up with the typing vondrack: DeepO: DeepO: yeah zeit: so am i, it's okay DeepO: can I take the board for a minute? vondrack: sorry for taking over, I thought you were having troubles, q_m vondrack: sure DeepO: first of all: we were thinking on you getting Vox's tech vondrack: good DeepO: but that was not a problem to us, if it wouldn't prevent us from trading republic with Vox DeepO: after that, everything is fine for us DeepO: we don't see Vox as our property, you know vondrack: we thought that you would trade Rep for the free Vox tech DeepO: more or less, yes vondrack: so we seem to understand each other vondrack: we would like to trade Curr+Constr for their free tech vondrack: +/- something to balance things maybe - but that's just a detail DeepO: well DeepO: for us it's fine, but some of the deal so far already included trading the two techs to Vox vondrack: you trading it to them? DeepO: i'm noot saying you can't try it, but I doubt they would go for it DeepO: yes, more or less DeepO: i'm sorry, but it's hard to get specific when it comes to Vox, it's a very complex situation vondrack: well, if you don't trade Curr+Constr to them yourselves, they will not be able to get it from anywhere else DeepO: maybe we could somehow trade that tech to you? DeepO: vondrack that might be a way out vondrack: that might be possible, I hope vondrack: my only concern would be the exact timing vondrack: but thinking of it vondrack: it would probably be ok zeit: while also making a long term deal into the medeival, i'm sure any single tier 1 tech can be compensated later on DeepO: because if you would propose us with a limited non disclosure thing, we wouldn't be allowed to trade it on DeepO: so you wold create a window of opportunity to trade to lego too vondrack: well, as far as you would be able to accomodate us on the Vox free tech (no-whore clause, of course), we would be happy, I believe DeepO: well, we were already thinking on trying to get a longer relation with you DeepO: so that shouldn't be a problem vondrack: so are we vondrack: there are reasonable teams and there are other teams DeepO: zeit: as we are both top researchers, and pretty isolated vondrack: yeah DeepO: well... are you top researchers? vondrack: no idea ) zeit: so we are rather safe from foreign intrusions, that might hinder such a long term relationship DeepO: because it is our impression, but we could be wrong vondrack: but we are doing fine, I hope DeepO: you should see it in the F11 screen, under GNP DeepO: it ranks you... vondrack: lemme see vondrack: dammit vondrack: it's bad vondrack: we are not #1 vondrack: zeit: ? vondrack: #2 vondrack: DeepO: thank you... zeit: we are #1 zeit: like i said DeepO: we are both the top, then, this might make things a bit easier vondrack: then we are not top researchers - you are :P zeit: DeepO, you're a genius vondrack: zeit: i meant- we both vondrack: j/k DeepO: okay, more specific DeepO: would you in general be interested in getting the both us to education and knights fast? DeepO: by splitting research amongst us? vondrack: well, I am speaking for myself now vondrack: these things need to be consulted with the team DeepO: I mean, no official proposal, just trying to figure out your larger goals in this game vondrack: but as far as I know DeepO: of course vondrack: yes redstar1: I think we can both benefit from some form of co-operation vondrack: we would be interested DeepO: well, we would too DeepO: if only for the less hectic diplo contacts vondrack: preferring to go for the Edu branch DeepO: okay... this is something we should see in team vondrack: yeah, diplo is hectic DeepO: our long term planning isn't that far, too many variables the next 50 or so turns vondrack: np DeepO: it opens a lot of possibilities vondrack: us leaning towards the Edu branch is just something that was very informally discussed in one chat vondrack: nothing set in stone redstar1: i think the point made was that it suits our circumstances DeepO: maybe it would be best to try to schedule a more regular chat between our teams, so more of our teams can make it vondrack: good idea DeepO: edu: np redstar1: although at the time we feared being well behind in tech DeepO: no GL idea? vondrack: GLib? DeepO: it seemed so obvious to us... DeepO: yeah vondrack: it would have been a lot of gambling DeepO: now it doesn't make this much sense anymore DeepO: if you can be the tech-leader, who wants to trail behind? vondrack: we had no idea whether and what is being built DeepO: so far, not much... vondrack: what was redstar1: no, i think we gain more from discussions as this than we would from the GL DeepO: vondrack: LoL vondrack: yes vondrack: so, to make things clear - we do not consider building GLib DeepO: no, now it would be a waste vondrack: agreed DeepO: DeepO: luckily for every team DeepO: it might be possible to get more military tech before getting edu, perhaps DeepO: I don't know... DeepO: if that would do any good DeepO: we'll start a discussion on this in our forum vondrack: thinking of the lower part of the tree?

	19-03-2003 02:53									#48
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Part 2:

quote: DeepO: Okay, summarizing: redstar1: we have plenty of time DeepO: yes DeepO: 1. we'll try to get a more regular chat going DeepO: every weekend perhaps? DeepO: it's easier on time tables redstar1: sunday evenings? gmt? vondrack: np with me DeepO: sounds good, if it's not too late redstar1: dunno what suits vondrack or quantum tbh DeepO: too soon, I mean DeepO: vondrack: I am GMT+1 DeepO: me too vondrack: and hanging around almost all the time quantum_mechani: GMT -9 DeepO: but Sunday isn't good before 9 gmt for me zeit: i'm GMT+2 DeepO: okay, zeit what hour can you stay up at a Sunday? zeit: pretty early, i might be able to make it until 10 GMT DeepO: what about 9 GMT then? vondrack: Sunday 9pm GMT would be okay with me DeepO: that would be good for me, and normally with q_m too redstar1: yep zeit: okay, sounds good to me DeepO: let's fix that, then vondrack: q_m, is this ok with you? vondrack: I mean, for you it's noon time, right? zeit: we have scheduled another date- means our relationship is getting on the right track... quantum_mechani: let me check the time zone converter vondrack: LoL zeit: those non-europeans, can't convert simple GMT times... vondrack: redstar1: hehe zeit: oops, just turned myself into a european.. but they let us play in the euro champinships redstar1: ahh israel right? zeit: yep redstar1: all hell gonna break loose down there DeepO: next one... q_m get back to us later zeit: have my ABC protection kit eight next to me, don't freak me or i'm gonna inject myself some atropin quantum_mechani: yes, 9pm GMT is ok DeepO: 2. Lego will trade cons+curr to GS, we trade repu to them the moment we'll discover it (should be turn 82) vondrack: ok, let's go on DeepO: okay DeepO: so 1. is fixed at 9pm GMT on Sundays vondrack: good DeepO: 2.: more things: do you have an eta on any of the techs? vondrack: Curr in 9-10 turns vondrack: 10 max vondrack: 9 maybe vondrack: sorry - no time to whip my XLSes recently DeepO: 3. We will try to figure out some way of getting Vox's free tech to lego DeepO: np DeepO: 9 or 10 should be close enough vondrack: Construction will be available in time zeit: do we delay Republic public release? DeepO: 3.: need more discussion on both parts DeepO: 04 « 14zeit 04 » maybe best DeepO: but not too much DeepO: 2 turns max DeepO: any little bit helps set us apart DeepO: every DeepO: instead of any DeepO: and no, i'm not flodding you DeepO: it only looks that way DeepO: flodding = flooding zeit: of course we should, but does Lego agree, vondrack? vondrack: thinking it over DeepO: take your time zeit: okay, DeepO, that's enough. vondrack: we would probably prefer not delaying it vondrack: but I would have to consult DeepO: okay... redstar1: damn democracy DeepO: but there is again a possibility here vondrack: we might prefer you keeping it for YOURSELF only for those two turns DeepO: if you would always trade for the tech, instead of giving it (and aceepting it in the same turn) zeit: As top researchers, we have common interest- delaying the advance of other teams DeepO: ah, but that's no problem DeepO: indeed DeepO: that was what we're aiming for DeepO: but it would require one more thing: some pruning of the Bobian civs vondrack: yes, that would be okay vondrack: Turn 84 then? DeepO: sounds good to me DeepO: but we'll need to get it confirmed by our team vondrack: that would be perfectly okay with us DeepO: ok DeepO: 3. then DeepO: 4. I mean DeepO: 4. Lego and GS try to get some tech relation in place, which will last well into the middle age DeepO: preferably a very long time vondrack: yes, that sounds viable DeepO: but that depends too much on situation to say something meaningfull on vondrack: and doable, too DeepO: part of 4. means that in the near future, we'll coordinate tech plans DeepO: which means a bit of long term planning on both teams vondrack: yes, that would be okay DeepO: something else we need to discuss? vondrack: ahhhh... long term planning... my hobby DeepO: vondrack: DeepO, one thing vondrack: that free tech from Voxes is crucial for us vondrack: keep that in mind, please DeepO: yes I do vondrack: ok zeit: This should be kept secret from the other teams, though, as they won't really like dealing with two teams that research as one DeepO: and I don't want to rip you of getting it either DeepO: but it might be needed to delay it getting to you... DeepO: and it will depend on what it is DeepO: if mono, it might be traded slower then when it would be one of the military techs vondrack: other than that, we'd agree to not resell that free tech + would ask to be able to sell Rep to GoW & RPers + would ask that you do not trade Curr+Constr to GoW & RPers DeepO: good for me DeepO: if you would allow us sole right on rep to ND and Vox DeepO: and no NDA on curr+constr to Vox vondrack: yes, that would be fine with us vondrack: no NDA? DeepO: we'll try to get ND in on the deal, but there's no guarantee they'll go for it DeepO: Non Disclosure Agreement DeepO: also NWA DeepO: Non whoring Agreement DeepO: vondrack: like we do no sell it to them, right? zeit: they are somewhat silent when it comes to PM and out of game comm. DeepO: yes, indeed vondrack: yep, that would be okay DeepO: zeit ND? DeepO: it's true zeit: yep DeepO: okay, I'll try to get a proposal ratified by our board asap, it should reach you in 2 days or so vondrack: hmmm... you guys are no fun! DeepO: maybe 3... I'm on a conference vondrack: you shoudl see other teams DeepO: no fun? vondrack: THEY are difficult to bargain with! ) DeepO: vondrack: this is like a friendly chit-chat... DeepO: part comes of course because it's on our interest that lego grows stronger vondrack: just j/k, of course zeit: well, when sharing interests, its much easier to trade DeepO: while all the others see you as a threat vondrack: yeah... no idea why, really DeepO: your isolated DeepO: simple... DeepO: but we're kind of isloated too DeepO: we're hearing strange rumours coming from Bob vondrack: about what? DeepO: they seem to realise that the longer we stay left alone, the better our position gets. DeepO: certainly now that lego is one of the best econmoical powers in this game DeepO: so... diplo contact is getting a lot harsher vondrack: hmmm... come to think of it... they may be right, after all... ) DeepO: DeepO: maybe zeit: more attention will come in our way, especially when they realize we have some arrangement between us DeepO: true vondrack: I agree DeepO: we need to keep this absolutely secret vondrack: agreed vondrack: how do Voxes fit in, if you do not mind me asking? DeepO: well... DeepO: it's complicated vondrack: Bobians seem to believe you and them are in fact one zeit: So sniff around, and be alert, those Bobians can be hurt rather quickly- they've had their share of betrayls, and seem unforgiving DeepO: Vox is getting behind big time vondrack: The One, maybe ) DeepO: and they know it DeepO: which makes them a lot more unstable to deal with DeepO: we absolutely need to keep them friendly until we get their tech DeepO: after that... who knows DeepO: we are prepared for an attack before that, though DeepO: so maybe there will be a problem with their tech after all vondrack: you fear them attacking you? DeepO: now would be the best time for them DeepO: because of their imortals DeepO: immortals vondrack: that's true DeepO: it's not that we are so tense about it zeit: We can't say we fear, as they are pretty weak, but we keep an eye DeepO: but it really is a possibility DeepO: currently, our relation is in their favor DeepO: in that we give them more then we get zeit: besides their UU, they are no serious threat, but we dislike fighting wars that others dictate DeepO: simply because there is fewer to get then we can give vondrack: I see DeepO: but how long this will keep up? I don't know vondrack: well, this is fascinating DeepO: is it? DeepO: how did you saw our relation then? vondrack: seeing/hearing the same thing from different sources DeepO: lol DeepO: I can imagine... curious what Vox would have to say vondrack: the pictures are so much different zeit: I think Vox have been talking about our relations more then they should have, as eyes are starting to turn at our direction, with a mean look too DeepO: true DeepO: it makes us sound like the bad guys, while we're just keeping our mouth shut DeepO: which we promised to do too... vondrack: yeah... "secretive" is the term I heard used regarding GS DeepO: may be DeepO: but that is not our intention zeit: We treat this game rather seriously, so our secrets, are, well, secret vondrack: I heard that same term used about us vondrack: ditto DeepO: the problem is that if we want to play honorably, not mentioning anything of what another team tells us in private, we can't really say much DeepO: and we want to play honorably DeepO: at all costs vondrack: I understand vondrack: this is quite different from what Bobians are used to DeepO: true DeepO: which makes them very powerful allies DeepO: if they ever can set their differences apart DeepO: in that respect, it would be best if we try to focus on one or a few teams, to keep them divided DeepO: diplomatically I mean DeepO: not military vondrack: we are still looking for our place in this world zeit: But strife there works in our favor, to a certain degree- it is best they focus on themselevs, but not forced into drastic measures, like Lux was vondrack: you seem to be the first variable turning into a constant vondrack: for us DeepO: DeepO: we hope so zeit: i concur DeepO: it would make our game a lot easier to assess vondrack: yes vondrack: well DeepO: things are slowing down... any thing else? zeit: I'm almost certain this will be approved on our board, as no serous concerns were raised DeepO: otherwise, I would say see you next Sunday vondrack: agreed DeepO: and I agree, this should be an easy deal vondrack: next Sunday, 9pm GMT zeit: so if we both want our relations to be constant, it is quite probably will vondrack: it was our greatest pleasure, Gentlemen DeepO: the pleasure was all ours zeit: May we have many more fruitful talks like this one Session Close: Tue Mar 18 22:34:12 2003

As you can see, the key deal is very likely to be signed shortly.

Go Legoland!

	19-03-2003 13:23									#49
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I don't know... Everybody seem very happy about this deal, I don't know why I'm not.

Is it maybe because we are giving them Constr+Currency for Republic, which is a huge advantage for them, while they are not allowing us to trade with the Voxes for their free tech?

Unless I'll see in the treaty draft that they are giving us Monotheism for free, I won't accept it, because it'd be very unfair to us. I'd settle for a small amount of money perhaps, but not for one of our future techs, for ex.

Otherwise all is well, I agree. Slowly creating a lead in science, GS and us, means a huge advantage, but also a risk to upset the militaristic Bob civs. (and they are closer to us than GS). Keeping at least one of them happy, even if that means giving more than getting is essential. However we enter the land of secrecy, so be aware of that in future chats.

	19-03-2003 13:41									#50
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I'm also slightly concerned about the lack of access to Vox they seem prepared to give us, but I'll wait for the treaty draft before making any comments

	19-03-2003 18:52									#51
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I would consider it as "goes without saying" that we would get Monotheism in exchange for granting GS rights to trade Curr+Construction to Voxes.

I will not accept any treaty that does not net us the same as GS are going to get (i.e. Voxes' free tech). And I am not even prepared to throw in any cash bonus.

Besides, I have just received a PM by BetaHound. Voxes expressed their desire to possibly deal directly with us, not through GS. I believe that their ties to GS are weaker than Bobians believe. We may be able to get Vox contact from ND quite easily and for cheap, if we lower the price on Currency a bit... just an idea...

I 100% agree that the treaty must net us Republic and Monotheism without having to throw in anything extra.

	19-03-2003 19:20									#52
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Glad to see that we agree

	19-03-2003 20:47									#53
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We need to make sure this information is kept confidencial. I know there is a tendency to let little details slip-out. This is a human flaw that we all have. We want to brag about being in the "know".

So let's fight this temptation and keep our dealing confidential.

	21-03-2003 15:34									#54
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Just to keep everybody updated... making sure we do our best to prevent ending up dependent on a single team, I have PMed BetaHound of Voxes, asking whether they would consider trading for their free medieval tech. I will post the message soon in another thread reserved for Vox affairs.

	21-03-2003 16:15									#55
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WHAT? I have PMed BetaHound today! I thought we agreed that I am the new ambassador and I handle the PMs while you (or Nimitz) handle the chats.

Damn!

	21-03-2003 16:58									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius WHAT? I have PMed BetaHound today! I thought we agreed that I am the new ambassador and I handle the PMs while you (or Nimitz) handle the chats. Damn!

Sorry, Tibi, but it is not a problem at all, believe me. I was responding to a PM that was mostly personal, not really related to PtWDG, adding just few words about the trade deal idea (that's also why I did not post the PM in full here).

I am fully aware of that you are supposed to take care of PMs sent to Vox Controli.

	21-03-2003 17:05									#57
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No problem with you sending a PM, i'm not upset or something. Only you should tell me in advance so that I wouldn't send the same thing again. That's all.

	24-03-2003 02:44									#58
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ratified proposal
redstar1, quantum_mechani,

Sorry to be this late in getting back to you, I just arrived back from my trip... kind of exhausted too. The proposal I posted to the board last Tuesday was approved unanomously(sp?), and quite quickly too. I'm sorry it didn't reach you sooner...

Please find hereunder the proposal as discussed in last chat. Just some quick protocol (I'm sure it's similar on your side, but just to leave no doubts on this...): normally we first discuss a proposal, until we feel ready to ratify it. If so, one party (in this case us) makes a proposal, which we officially poll about on our board. If it gets approved, we send the ratified proposal back to the other party. The moment we get word back they agree to it, we consider the deal to be in effect.

For smaller deals, we can be less strict, but for things like these, which spans hopefully a long time, we are careful not to imply anything, but to be very clear and unambigously.

If you have any comments, or see any necessary changes, don't hesitate to contact me. It was as discussed in last chat (at least to the best of my knowledge), but that doesn't make it final per se...

quote:
Proposal between Legoland and Gathering Storm, trading republic against construction and currency
1. Legoland will give construction and currency to Gathering Storm, the turn they acquire it, in order to get both of us to the middle age asap.

2. Gathering Storm will give Legoland the Republic, no later then turn 84 (barring natural disasters of those magnitude that it wouldn't be possible to reach the republic before that time)

3. Legoland is free to trade republic to RP and to GoW the moment they get it. They will not trade the republic to ND or Vox

4. Gathering Storm is free to trade the republic to Vox and to ND, and will not try to trade it to RP or GoW

5. Gathering Storm is free to trade construction and currency to Vox and ND, if possible

6. When entering the middle age, Vox will receive a free tech. Under normal circumstances, Gathering Storm will acquire this tech from Vox. If so, they will immediately trade it to Legoland, for a favorable price (quite possible as part of a larger deal).
Legoland agrees to some form of non disclosure agreement on the 'free tech', of which details can later be discussed.

7. It is the hope of both our teams that this trade is the first in a long term relationship, and negotiations for such a longer trade relation will start immediately (e.g. on discovering techs in opposite branches, to both speed onwards in the tech tree)

8. To better discuss this, regular chats are being scheduled between our teams, proposed every Sunday, at 9 pm GMT somewhere in the Apolyton chat rooms. Everyone is welcome


Further issues: I'm trying to get into the chatroom, but had no luck so far to connect to apolyton (which happens more, I'm afraid). I keep trying, but maybe there is not that much need: because of my trip, I'm totally behind with PTW-DG stuff, I have a full week Gathering Spam forum to get through I can't say much new, as I haven't given this much thought lately... I don't know if many opinions have formed already on our board (at first glance, nothing decisive, but maybe it's simply burried in the new posts), I can't speak for them. So, if others can't join me, there is little point for me to participate...

So I suggest to postpone the chat, unless you have anything to ask, for which I'll gladly try to get connected... and I promise that for next week, I'll try to get some discussion going on our board as to where we want this relation to go to... next Sunday, I'll be better informed. My apologies again for not contacting you sooner, real life can be a chronical disease sometimes.

DeepO

	24-03-2003 12:14									#59
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 5. Gathering Storm is free to trade construction and currency to Vox and ND, if possible 6. When entering the middle age, Vox will receive a free tech. Under normal circumstances, Gathering Storm will acquire this tech from Vox. If so, they will immediately trade it to Legoland, for a favorable price (quite possible as part of a larger deal). Legoland agrees to some form of non disclosure agreement on the 'free tech', of which details can later be discussed.

What were you saying Radek, that we will get Monotheism for free? Read this: GS is free to trade constr+Currency with Vox and GS will trade Monotheism to Lego for a favorable price. Yeah right, like I will vote such a treaty. This is a completely unfair deal.

	24-03-2003 12:18									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius What were you saying Radek, that we will get Monotheism for free? Read this: GS is free to trade constr+Currency with Vox and GS will trade Monotheism to Lego for a favorable price. Yeah right, like I will vote such a treaty. This is a completely unfair deal.

Fully agreed. I have already pointed this out to redstar1 yesterday in the chatroom. They must have misunderstood what we were telling them... we are not going to sign such a treaty, that's for sure.