14-03-2003 07:52									#31
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Sprayber, probably so. But I happen to know someone on the Uni side's bargaining team. I believe she said that they already looked for other precedents.

	14-03-2003 07:53									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Because professors don't have to pay tuition?

So? I have to pay tuition.

TA's are working to pay tuition. Tuition costs affect everyone, whether they're a TA or not. The reason tuition costs are going up is not because they think it's more fun to take money from the students, it's because they need more profs/buildings/etc.

It makes zero sense to give TAs a pay boost proportional to the increase in the cost of tuition. The vast majority of people attending school don't work as TAs, we don't get a pay raise every time tuition increases, and neither should TAs.

Whether they're graduate students or not doesn't mean anything. Undergrads and grads both need to pay more with higher tuition, wasting lots of the money the undergrads have to pay to get a better education to give the TA's some extraordinary wage is ridiculous. That money should be going into the school -- that's why the tuition is increasing!

	14-03-2003 07:55									#33
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Why does everyone expect workers to be slaves?

Slaves???

They get paid pretty damn decently for what they do, and they turned down a ~10% pay raise offer and demand something like 40%.

I'm expecting workers to do their job at a reasonable wage, not work as slaves.

TAs here make $20/hr and the vast majority of them don't do much, at all. Slaves they are not.

	14-03-2003 07:56									#34
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I think it is quite understandable that tuition and pay for TAs be linked somehow. The TAships are there to help people get through their programs, aren't they?

	14-03-2003 07:58									#35
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I think it is quite understandable that tuition and pay for TAs be linked somehow. The TAships are there to help people get through their programs, aren't they?

I think they should get some boost, I think 10% is more than reasonable.

I don't think they should get a 40% payraise because tuition went up 40%...

	14-03-2003 08:00									#36
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Without knowing the relative costs, which haven't been posted, how do you know 10% is reasonable? Exactly matching is probably too much, but what is too little?

RedFred?

	14-03-2003 08:01									#37
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If the pay was unreasonable, why do they do it?

If the pay is unreasonable, don't accept the damn job, then watch as the pay increases until people find it acceptable...

	14-03-2003 08:06									#38
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Asher, someone planned a program at that university 2 years ago. That program might last 4 or 6 years. They budgeted on certain numbers, including TAships which they were offered.

Now, their tuition gets jacked, but the increase in the TAship does not cover. You can't see why they would want to try to get enough to cover the increased costs of finishing their program?

	14-03-2003 08:07									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Alberta has legislation limiting tuition increases to 8% per year. The reason your tuition went up so much so fast was because the retarded NDP thought the solution would be to put a tuition freeze on for a long time. Ahhh, BC.

Quebec has had frozen tuition for 10 years. They're doing fine.

	14-03-2003 08:09									#40
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Big deal, **** happens.

I'm dealing with the same crap with differential tuition, compsci costs are going up at the maximum 8% per year every year for many years.

Such is life. I entered the program when it was $4000/year, it's $5000/year now, $5400 next year, ~$5900 the next year..

It's stuff you gotta deal with. I agree they should get some payraise, but nothing extraordinary like they want. They're just greedy.

	14-03-2003 08:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Quebec has had frozen tuition for 10 years. They're doing fine.

And now explain to everyone how much money from the federal government goes into appeasing Quebec (and its universities)

It's easy to put a tuition freeze in if the government will continue to throw money in your general direction.

	14-03-2003 08:12									#42
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Quebec is a net beneficiary by a fairly insignificant amount (lowest per-capita of all the net recipients). Quebec universities are funded, by and large, by the provincial government.

	14-03-2003 08:13									#43
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Need we discuss how easy it would be for Alberta, which derives 1/3 of its public income from sitting on a giant oil well?

	14-03-2003 08:14									#44
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Alberta is at a net loss, by a hugely significant amount.

	14-03-2003 08:14									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Need we discuss how easy it would be for Alberta, which derives 1/3 of its public income from sitting on a giant oil well?

1/3?
The budget is $20B/year.
$3B is energy revenue.

My math's rusty, but...

	14-03-2003 08:16									#46
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That's wrong. The government gets 1/3 of its revenue from oil-related revenue. That figure's been quoted in half-a-dozen news stories on a couple of different networks.

Your figures have something they aren't taking into account...

Never mind the fact that even that is 1/6 or so.

	14-03-2003 08:17									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger That's wrong. The government gets 1/3 of its revenue from oil-related revenue. That figure's been quoted in half-a-dozen news stories on a couple of different networks.

You've lived out east too long, my friend. Their propaganda is getting to you. "The only reason Alberta is doing well is because they get soooooooo much money from energy revenue! Yes, that's it!"

	14-03-2003 08:19									#48
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Snooze. Not to mention that this is only public revenue...

Now multiply by 4 or 5 times to see what oil means to the general economy.

I'll trust the CBC+CanWest Global before I trust your figures...

	14-03-2003 08:19									#49
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Sorry, I was wrong, for the 2002-2003 year, resource revenue is $3.7B...

http://www.finance.gov.ab.ca/business/budget/index.html

But of course CanWest (which is headed up by none other than one of Chretien's best friends) would know more about this than Alberta's Finance ministry, right?

	14-03-2003 08:23									#50
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I think it is quite understandable that tuition and pay for TAs be linked somehow. The TAships are there to help people get through their programs, aren't they?

Maybe they are, tuition goes up 40% and pay goes up 10%.

Examples:

Tuition costs 4000 a year. a 40% increase in tuition is $1600

Say pay is 1400 a month or 16800 a year. a 10% raise on that is $1680.

How is that hurting TA's?

Their 10% offsets the 40% increase and they get an extra $80 a year.

Enough for 2 new computer games.

Edit: If they got 40% that would be 6720 a year, all of their tuition would be paid.

ACK!

	14-03-2003 08:23									#51
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I am not about to sabotage my grade by not going to class to hear material I will be tested on anyways, pickets would not stop from going.

	14-03-2003 08:25									#53
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Of course, soaring energy prices are giving Alberta a ~$2B surplus this year, but that doesn't count.

Most of that money is going into a new sustainability fund which will level out revenue streams. Surpluses go into that, deficits come out of it...balanced budget through boom and bust while paying debt as it comes due.

Also interesting, if Alberta had the same tax regime as Quebec, the province would have $9B a year in additional revenue.

Which is amazing.

	14-03-2003 08:33									#54
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Frogger, we almost screwed things up the last time by planning on oil revenues. Windfalls cannot be used for ordinary, recurring buget items. They are far too unpredictable and the dislocation in government services when the price of oil goes down are not things anybody around here wants to deal with, again.

	14-03-2003 09:07									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Asher They're just greedy.

Well come on, how else are they gonna buy the furs and jewels and pimp-mobiles and live in their penthouse apartments. First off, $20 Canadian is jack ****. Most TAs live pretty poor lives. Greed has nothing to do with it. They want to finish school.

	14-03-2003 09:08									#56
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$20CDN is jack ****?
Minimum wage in Alberta is $5.90CDN...

Remember that stuff like health care is "free" here, costs of living are very low compared to most US cities also...

	14-03-2003 09:35									#57
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Well come on, how else are they gonna buy the furs and jewels and pimp-mobiles and live in their penthouse apartments. First off, $20 Canadian is jack ****. Most TAs live pretty poor lives. Greed has nothing to do with it. They want to finish school.

Find another way to do it besides interfering with the education of undergrads.

	14-03-2003 09:45									#58
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I'd cross the picket lines, definitely. In fact, I'd cross them even if I had no good reason to do so, just to be an ass.

	14-03-2003 09:45									#59
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I also like che's stealth implication that only rich people can be greedy.

TAs demanding 40% raises are greedy, plain and simple, whether they're rich or poor.

	14-03-2003 10:40									#60
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Bullshit.

TAs and RAs are cheap-ass for the value they provide.

Most bachelor holders in useful subjects can walk into a 50-60k a year job.

TAs only spend 7-10 hours a week on their job responsibilities, but they're also busy doing graduate work (thesis and classes). Most grad students are working or studying 60+ hours a week.