15-03-2003 01:50									#121
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Azazel how much is a 1 CAN$? in USD?

~$0.66

	15-03-2003 01:57									#122
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2500Can$ is less than what we pay, then.

( I get mine for free, but that's a different story. )

	15-03-2003 05:19									#123
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

From my experience: If you help teacher you are kicked out, if you don't you are kicked out.
Solution? LAWSUIT.

	15-03-2003 05:49									#124
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http://www.bctf.ca/bctfenews/archiv...2003-03-07.html

UBC TA STRIKE CONTINUES
The 1,600 teaching assistants at UBC continue their struggle to maintain their meagre income. Previously the TAs had protection against fee increases because there is a direct relationship between what they get from the university in pay and what they have to pay back in the form of tuition. They can only be TAs if they are students so they are basically working for the company store.

TAs at UBC are seeking parity with TAs at SFU. Currently their pay ranks 10th out of 15 universities in Canada, but they live in one of the most expensive areas in the country. UBC claims that its TAs' annual income ranks third in the country. That is only true because they work 100 hours more than TAs at other universities. UBC has increased fees by over 40% in some cases but only offered the TAs a 10% increase.

http://www.educ.ubc.ca/ogpr/researc...udget_info.html

pay rate is approximately 23.11$ CDN/hr for TA's working towards a masters degree.

Sorry, but this is the best I can find, Asher.

	15-03-2003 07:39									#125
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$23.11/hr and they want a 40% raise? They should take a hike...

	15-03-2003 07:40									#126
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They did.

	15-03-2003 07:47									#127
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Good for them, don't expect me to care.
I don't need the TAs, the profs just need them to make their lives easier. 30% TA turnover per year, year's almost over...

	15-03-2003 08:24									#128
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Asher, how long have you been at university and how many professors do you know?

If there were no TAs the place would grind to a halt. No prof is going to want to waste their time doing the donkey work.

	15-03-2003 08:30									#129
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My university's policy dictates profs mark all midterms and finals...75% of my marks come from midterms and finals.

The only use TAs are to me are assignment marking, and even that's fairly trivial for the prof to do if they needed to. Batch-run programs...

	15-03-2003 08:35									#130
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That's to you. Not all courses in the university are comp sci courses. And not all universities have such policies. I actually think it is a waste of time for profs to mark tests and finals - in my experience its not worth paying a profs salary to do that when they could be doing more worthwhile stuff.

TAs are basically there to do all the donkey work that profs don't want to do and are paid less than the profs for doing it. Unfortunately you can't pay them McJob wages because they all have degrees and won't do the job. You also can't artificially cut their wages because they'll all leave and your university will get worse.

That's why U of T improved things for their TAs sharpish - they realised that they were losing out on all the good grads.

	15-03-2003 08:39									#131
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McJob wages? If McDonalds paid $23.11/hour...

$23.11 is fine as a wage. UBC still has very low tuition ($2500/year), their wage demands are ridiculous.

They get more per hour and pay half as much in tuition than UofC TA's -- maybe they should suck it up like those hardened Albertans do.

	15-03-2003 08:52									#132
	Got spare money?

I get $35 an hour and I pay no tuition. Then again I live in TO.

If McDonalds paid $23 an hour the people that currently are TAs would be working at McDonalds; and if TAs were paid McDonalds wages the people who work at McDonalds would be your TA.

Can you see what's wrong with this pictures.

	15-03-2003 08:54									#133
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If the TAs worked at McDonalds instead of TAing, the TA's wage would go up until those positions are filled.

Welcome to the wonderful world of economics...

	15-03-2003 09:06									#134
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But the TAs wage rate is naturally fixed by economic circumstances. The problem is that universities are bypassing the market mechanism through their ability to raise fees. If they do this they will get second rate grad students and the reputation of their university will take a dive. Then they will get even worse students....

	15-03-2003 09:10									#135
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Agathon But the TAs wage rate is naturally fixed by economic circumstances.

Only in provinces with tuition freezes.

Yes, a tuition hike hurts TAs as well, but as people have pointed out in this thread, you don't need a 40% payraise to overcome a 40% tuition hike...it's actually much less than that.

If I had my way, TAs would work in exchange for free tuition, and maybe make ~$10/hr on top of it.

*shrug*

	15-03-2003 09:17									#136
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It depends on how much of the student's funding package is covered by TA work. In some cases at U of T it was 100% which made tuition raises particularly bad.

OK - so in your scheme the TAs make only $10 an hour. How much are they supposed to work a week in order to feed and clothe themselves and their family if they have one (we're older than you - we have dependents in many cases)?

The way it works at U of T is roughly that fees are paid and you get about 14 grand a year to live on which is made up of grants and TA work. Hardly a huge sum, but enough to live on.

	15-03-2003 09:25									#137
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$10/hr with free tuition is MORE than reasonable.

There are things called student loans. Sometimes, students can use these loans to loan money which they pay off once they're out of school.

	15-03-2003 09:28									#138
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Asher, go ahead. Offer "10$ an hour" (hourly wages aren't offered, BTW; they're simply estimates. Stipend is the same no matter how many hours a week the course requires)

Nobody who's not desperate will go to your uni.

	15-03-2003 09:30									#139
	Suffering from ads?

BTW, I charge 20$ an hour to tutor. Why should I take less from the uni?

	15-03-2003 09:33									#140
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Frogger BTW, I charge 20$ an hour to tutor. Why should I take less from the uni?

It's $10/hour plus free tuition...that's $6000 (here) a year plus $10/hour. Seems fair to me.

Nearly double minimum wage and free tuition while working on campus.

	15-03-2003 09:35									#141
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From somebody with a BSc + some more education?

Don't be ridiculous. I can walk into a much higher paying job than that.

	15-03-2003 09:36									#142
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Your scheme isn't economically feasible. For a start students will have racked up large loans as undergraduates and they will then be faced with 5 years additional loans. That's 9 years - nearly a fifth of one's working life spent accumulating debt.

Now such a person ends up with a PhD and is supposed to be able to earn enough money to pay all these loans off in no time (if they can even get them in the first place). Who is going to work at a university to teach the next lot of students with such a financial millstone around their neck - nobody - and if the university raises salaries to attract more teachers fees will skyrocket making the problem even worse. There will be a problem getting enough graduates if this is the case.

Paying TA's about 12-14,000 C$ a year and their fees is about right. It's not big money and it attracts good students to Canadian universities but doesn't break the bank.

Appealing to the market won't help because education is one of those areas in which positive externalities will lead to underproduction and inefficiency. There's a reason that universities are structured the way they are - it works.

	15-03-2003 09:39									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger From somebody with a BSc + some more education? Don't be ridiculous. I can walk into a much higher paying job than that.

Well, free tuition doesn't mean much to you in Quebec. Over here it's a big deal.

90% of the money I make goes straight into tuition...

	15-03-2003 09:40									#144
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Your scheme isn't economically feasible. For a start students will have racked up large loans as undergraduates and they will then be faced with 5 years additional loans. That's 9 years - nearly a fifth of one's working life spent accumulating debt.

They're in f*cking graduate school, they can afford to pay it off 10-15 years down the road.

I'm also a bit surprised at your "5 years of additional loans" -- most grad students aren't doing 9 year Masters and PhDs...

	15-03-2003 10:46									#145
	Inflate your Upload Space

Nobody does a Masters in physics.

	15-03-2003 10:46									#146
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They're in for 5 years to a Ph.D once they're accepted.