14-03-2003 12:13									#91
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Hey asher: go look at only english universities.

Might tell you something...

	14-03-2003 12:14									#92
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I don't know where to find that, I just stumbled across these graphs doing some googling.

	14-03-2003 12:14									#93
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And tuition freezes don't seem to have hurt McGill as the most recognised Canadian university down south...

	14-03-2003 12:15									#94
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Seriously, though: the difference in Quebec probably has a lot to do with the fact that a french-language degree just isn't as valuable as an english-language one. You can't get a job outside Quebec (in NA) with a degree taken in french...

	14-03-2003 12:16									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger And tuition freezes don't seem to have hurt McGill as the most recognised Canadian university down south...

McGill is the most recognised?

I thought Waterloo would be up there.

Waterloo is definitely up there for computers and engineering (and math?), way higher than McGill.

Microsoft, for instance, hires more graduates from Waterloo than any other specific institution in the world. And Waterloo consistently wins or places 2nd in the ACM Olympics each year, McGill doesn't even crack the finals (40 schools).

	14-03-2003 12:17									#96
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quote: Waterloo is definitely up there for computers and engineering (and math?), way higher than McGill.

Waterloo's better for engineering, but McGill still gets more recognition. It also has 10 times more foreign students than any other Canadian university. And they don't pay 2500$ a year like I did...

	14-03-2003 12:17									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Seriously, though: the difference in Quebec probably has a lot to do with the fact that a french-language degree just isn't as valuable as an english-language one. You can't get a job outside Quebec (in NA) with a degree taken in french...

That's probably true.
I was surprised at the disparity though, especially between Central and Western Canada.

	14-03-2003 12:37									#98
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Wow, your TAs sure take strikes very seriously.

We just go to the lectures, and don't go to the TA classes.

woohoo. more time in the Cafeteria.

They usually compromise, or something.

	14-03-2003 12:39									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel We just go to the lectures, and don't go to the TA classes.

I've never gone to the TA classes (we call them "labs" at my uni) aside from one this term.

The TA is actually hot (this is compsci, do you know how rare this is!) and she's actually very very useful and the prof is very very bad. I go to the TA classes and not the actual prof lectures.

All the other TAs just mark papers. And it's not like it's hard to mark anyway...

	14-03-2003 12:42									#100
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You've done it, so you'd know, eh Asher?

	14-03-2003 12:44									#101
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I'm no scab.

Besides, I might have that job in a couple years.

Well, I might screw the picket if there were some sort of test that day.

	14-03-2003 12:46									#102
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You've done it, so you'd know, eh Asher?

I'd know what's involved in marking the papers. I get them back.

Here's how computer science programs are marked: Students submit electronically using the "submit" program. Makes a neat directory with all of a student's information.

The TA runs the program with a specified data set with a scripting program.

If the output is correct, 100%.
If not, they look at the code and check off which functions you have and which you don't. Marks deducted according to legend made by prof.
Enter into database, hit okay.

Seeing as the average TA here has 2 labs with about 20 people each, that's 40 programs. And they usually take about 2 weeks to mark them.

	14-03-2003 12:49									#103
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And I'm qualified to TA any 200-level CPSC course (intro courses), provided I wanted to. Grad students are only required for 2nd year on, undergrads can TA 1st year courses if they had an A in them.

	14-03-2003 14:02									#104
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Try reading 300 papers written by people who seem barely literate and only obliquely aquainted with the topic of the course. Kind of like grading the average thread at Apolyton, but at 10 pages per post.

	14-03-2003 14:04									#105
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I thought you knew my stance on the social sciences.

	14-03-2003 14:05									#106
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I do, now try to appreciate the stance of the poor social science TAs.

	14-03-2003 16:27									#107
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Here at Michigan State, graduate assistants get a tuition waiver, free health insurance, and a monthly stipend. Now all I have to do is pass my prelims in the spring, then I'm guranteed at least a TAship for the rest of my doctoral program.

	14-03-2003 17:41									#108
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quote: I've never gone to the TA classes (we call them "labs" at my uni) aside from one this term. The TA is actually hot (this is compsci, do you know how rare this is!) and she's actually very very useful and the prof is very very bad. I go to the TA classes and not the actual prof lectures. All the other TAs just mark papers. And it's not like it's hard to mark anyway...

Actually, here it's quite the opposite. If we skip classes, it's the lectures not the TA classes. I was talking about the times the TAs strike. and yes we get some of that here too. First couple of weeks of my first simester, actually. But they weren't picketing or anything. and the math TAs still took place, since they know that if they wouldn't the students would be MASSIVELY shafted.

	15-03-2003 00:35									#109
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quote: As with any negotiations there is always some posturing going on from both sides. But, again from my inside source, the UBC TAs were offered the 3rd highest TA wage in the country.

RedFred:

Inside source? You make it sound like a spy.

The UBC TA's are the lowest paid TA's in the country at this point. What they really want is the tuition indexing, in that their pay goes up with tuition.
The administration hopes to run the strike until April when they have a 30% yearly turnover for TA's.
This way they can get all the new TA's to be unsuspecting scabs.

Are you attending UBC as well?

Tuberski:

I think that's a 10% rebate on tuition, and not on the overall pay. So they will still be out 35% of total tuition, since we pay approx. 2500 Cdn/year, they will be 800$ short. This will be more if they are an engineering TA.

	15-03-2003 00:41									#110
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You guys only pay $2500CDN/year? What the hell are they complaining about????

I pay that much a term, right now, and it's only going up.

BTW, can we have some kind of source for the TA's pay? I want to see their actual wages and compare them with tuition...

	15-03-2003 00:54									#111
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You pay esp. for TAs, Asher?

	15-03-2003 00:56									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I wouldn't go even if there wasn't a picket line.

I wish I got to go to school for free like you.

	15-03-2003 00:57									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel You pay esp. for TAs, Asher?

It's part of the cost of tuition.

I think you may have just misread obiwan's quote (or maybe I did):

quote: I think that's a 10% rebate on tuition, and not on the overall pay. So they will still be out 35% of total tuition, since we pay approx. 2500 Cdn/year, they will be 800$ short. This will be more if they are an engineering TA.

I read this as they pay $2500Cdn/year in tuition...

	15-03-2003 01:01									#114
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so you people do pay for college, in Canada? I thought that it is only in the US...

	15-03-2003 01:07									#115
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From someone who's actually been a TA and participated in a TA strike.

I'm not surprised the TA's have gone on strike as we went on strike over the very same issue. We'd actually agreed to take a pay cut in the previous bargaining round because the university was in financial difficulty: so we got really p******d off when they wanted to effectively cut again without reason.

In a normal job you can go to the boss when it is bargaining time and ask for a raise which you may or may not get. If you are a TA you have to be a graduate student which means you have to pay fees, which means that you effectively lose any bargaining power you had since the University will agree to a pay raise and then increase fees so that the raise is effectively cancelled or turned into a pay cut. For people like me, who have cushy scholarship deals which pay all their fees, this isn't really a big problem; but for students in other departments who don't get such deals, the costs can force them out of school.

It's not about fees - it's about the ability to bargain fairly with your employer. Imagine if the government gave it's employees a pay raise and then instituted a special tax on government employees only that turned the raise into a cut.

What is required to avert this ridiculous situation is some legislation that makes it hard for universities to act like this. It's dumb in several ways in because it means that gifted students move to the states or less people undertake graduate work. Here at U of T our strike failed because our bargaining committee basically betrayed us (there are several people on that committee whom I'd really like to kill), but a change to a more enlightened administration has averted future trouble by ensuring a guaranteed funding package for all students that can't be messed with by the admin. The result: everyone is happy and we're all back to work.

Interestingly, TAs can have in some situations a great deal of bargaining power. At York the TAs did most of the work so they effectively shut the university down when they went on strike and then ended up making more extreme demands that the university had to give in to.

	15-03-2003 01:08									#116
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 RedFred: Inside source? You make it sound like a spy. The UBC TA's are the lowest paid TA's in the country at this point. What they really want is the tuition indexing, in that their pay goes up with tuition. The administration hopes to run the strike until April when they have a 30% yearly turnover for TA's. This way they can get all the new TA's to be unsuspecting scabs.

Such a familiar story. The problem is that the university is shooting itself in the foot here by alienating essential employees.

	15-03-2003 01:15									#117
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Anyway, the whole "fees" movement is really a form of taxation.

University graduates on the whole end up paying more tax than non-graduates. Making them pay fees is essentially taxing them twice.

"Well, what's wrong with that?", you might say.

What's wrong is that the money is effectively being transferred to people your parents age (the notoriously feckless baby boomers) who got a much better deal at college than you're getting, and who are hoping to free ride off you in various ways when they retire.

So don't blame the government or the universities, blame your parents and their shiny new SUV.

	15-03-2003 01:25									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel so you people do pay for college, in Canada? I thought that it is only in the US...

Yes, college is not free in Canada, just heavily subsidized by the provincial governments.

	15-03-2003 01:26									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel so you people do pay for college, in Canada? I thought that it is only in the US...

Yet another myth implying that somehow Canada is a socialist country. We're marginally more socialist than the US, and a hell of a lot less than most western European countries.

	15-03-2003 01:46									#120
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how much is a 1 CAN$? in USD?