27-06-2003 12:59									#481
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Especially the movement of troops to Goats, that city is close to GCA and could be a sort of launching point for an invasion.

We should be cautious and try to pick up the hints they might be dropping.

	27-06-2003 15:46									#482
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Bizarre. If anything, it just goes to show how random they really are, and that they have no structure for accountability of leadership as advanced as ours.

I don't think we could pick up very much from their posts. If they do have troops in Goats then we shall see them before they enter our territory, thanks to the screen. We have prepared well, an if they come for us we will have home ground advantage and the ability to rapidly upgrade several Swords for a counterattack. Besides, how much cash can they have had to upgrade if they managed to get Maths and Philosophy several turns before even our esteemed Foreign Office believed was possible?

In other words, I shake my head in befuddlement at their words, and will not put any stock in any hints that may or may not be present. However this will not mean we lessen our cautious methods either...

	27-06-2003 15:49									#483
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Looks more like Roleplay to me.

	30-06-2003 00:40									#484
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quote: [SIZE=1]how much cash can they have had to upgrade if they managed to get Maths and Philosophy several turns before even our esteemed Foreign Office believed was possible?

My simulation showed they could have them before the deadline.

	30-06-2003 00:47									#485
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what drops me as suspicios is why the hell they feel the need to inform that they've moved their immortals, to precisely the city closest to GCA...

	30-06-2003 01:24									#486
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The long turns; the 'fluff' in their forums; the backing of CFC; All this points to a war on GCA by CDG.

It is happening, I'm willing to bet the farm on it.

	30-06-2003 03:32									#487
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Are we going to have a chat with CDG any time soon?

	02-07-2003 11:24									#488
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We can set one up, though they are hard to get a hold of.

They have had the latest turn for over 36 hours now. That team is in trouble it seems.

	04-07-2003 06:47									#489
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In a large chat this evening with Kentonio, Michaelis Rex, OmniMower, NYE, Trip, and many others from our team, several things were discussed:

CDG wanted to make it clear to us that they didn't break any treaties with GC, and even showed us the text of their treaty (with the techs removed) to prove to us that their treaty involving several tech trades and a NAP expired after the last trade went through. It is unclear if the last tech went through or not, but such matters really are not important. We accepted their representations and didn't push them on it. No need to. We were being accomodating and reassuring, and they seemed to mostly want reassurances...

They sent to NYE a message received from GC. NYE will post it. It's a bitter Letter from Lucky to CDG blasting them for breaking the treaty, saying that Apolyton won't be happy with them and may attack them, and mentioning how their joint plants to rule the world are over and how the big sites will win the game now.

CDG made a point about how they always honor their treaties and seemed to be very agressive about proving to us that they did nothing technically wrong.

They indicated that their war would likely be just to reduce GC's power, not destroy them.

Once given assurances from NYE that we were not likely to want to switch from being builders to warriors, they seemed satisfied. The rest of the chat went very pleasantly.

They agreed to allow The Princess to travel through their sea territory.

They agreed to a tech trade of Code of Laws for Literature. We will write it up shortly.

--Togas

	04-07-2003 06:54									#490
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Does CDG believe GCA that we are going to attack?

	04-07-2003 07:08									#491
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master Does CDG believe GCA that we are going to attack?

Deep down, I don't think they did, but I'm sure they were concerned, knowing that they sent the majority of their army to the south. They wanted to do their best to ensure that we weren't thinking of or considering attacking them.

--Togas

	04-07-2003 08:28									#492
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You want this here, Togas? I suppose you can copy it to where ever you want it.

Received from kentonio@cdgroup.org

quote: ----- Forwarded message from Lucky ----- Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:10:46 +0200 From: Lucky Reply-To: Lucky Subject: To whomever it may concern! (ISDG) To: epsilon530@aol.com, rex@cdgroup.org, kentonio@cdgroup.org, elucidus@cdgroup.org Please relay this message to whomever it may concern in the ?new? CDG government or the revolutional leaders. Thank you! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------- We are taken aback by your unreasoned, unprovoked and untold devious attack on our civilian population and the direct breach of both any peace treaty we have and the officially signed No Aggression Pact, which was unofficially even close to an Alliance. Be assured that we will take every measure to counter your attacks and will drive you and your puny troops out of Gamecatcher territory. We will punish this unheard of treason as hard as was never seen before. Also know that we will make your treacherous ways publically known to all neighbors and will properly report your breach of an official treaty to the UN officials. Without even an official declaration or any valid reasons at all, this will surely blacken your empire for eternity. Everyone will know that you cannot be trusted at all! We are already in process of meeting with Apolyton who are very displeased by your actions. And I´m sure you know that you would not survive any attack they might plan and undertake under these circumstances. And surely, they cannot just stand by and look while you try to exterminate us and then seal them in and share the rest of the world with CFC. But it seems you lost your senses anyway, so we will just go down together. Great way of making sure the big Civ sites win this event after all. So much for us taking CFC down and you Poly. :S Lucky President of the Gamecatcher Alliance ----- End forwarded message -----

btw, Kentonio went to great lengths to assure himself that we would keep this to ourselves. He asked multiple times.

I would realllllllllllly like to get GCA's permission to see what is on file at the UN (with Mongoose). Can we ask them to ask Mongoose to forward what he has to us?

How else is UN verification supposed to work?

	04-07-2003 08:36									#493
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Plus, we would be breaking out almost new NAP with them, if we did move to attack them.

The Interesting thing is that both CDG and GCA have both been "building up for war" from what we have observed from all of this.

Also, CDG claims that they have been "leading GCA on" about attacking us. They might have thought about it until they found that they have been weak compaired to us for some time.

E_T

	04-07-2003 09:05									#494
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Also, CDG claims that they have been "leading GCA on" about attacking us. They might have thought about it until they found that they have been weak compaired to us for some time.

Now that has the ring of truth to it.

	04-07-2003 15:54									#495
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We need to talk to GCA and find out if they indeed sent such a letter to CDG and for them to send us a copy.

We also need GCA and/or CDG to ask mongoose to foward all treaties signed by both GCA and CDG so we can review them independent of what either Civ says to us. Unless we get them from mongoose, they are not "official" and we cannot take a definate stance either way. I am not about to take CDG at their word, nor would I for GCA. The whole point of the UN is now coming to bear fruit.

This is the FAM's job. As soon as possible please.

	05-07-2003 01:07									#496
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The following tech trade was sent to Pesoloco, Kentonio, and LouisXXIV via PM on CDG's site:

quote: Apolyton and Elucidia hereby agree to the following trade: Apolyton promises to trade Code of Laws to Elucidia, Elucidia promises to trade Literature to Apolyton. On the turn that Elucidia aquires Literature, Elucidia promises to offer it to Apolyton. Apolyton will, in return, offer Code of Laws and accept the trade. On Elucidia's following turn, the trade will be accepted and completed. This agreement is not voided by either team aquiring the technology from another source. Agreed to by: BigFree, Consul of Apolyton Togas, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Apolyton. __________, of Elucidia

--Togas

	05-07-2003 03:01									#497
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Hmm. When I was reading the E-mail Lucky it said that GCA and CDG were going to take down CFC and Apolyton. Was that a lie?

	05-07-2003 04:35									#498
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Probably not a lie. We assumed that such would be in the works.

Actually, in reading that again, if it is authentic, it reads as if CDG urged GCA into that course of action, and then used GCA's involvement with CFC as the oppotunity to plunge the knife in deep. Wow, what a back-stab. That is, if I am reading the 'so much for' correctly as indicating 'so much for your proposals'.

Now I really wanna chat with Lucky.

	05-07-2003 10:22									#499
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree We need to talk to GCA and find out if they indeed sent such a letter to CDG and for them to send us a copy. We also need GCA and/or CDG to ask mongoose to foward all treaties signed by both GCA and CDG so we can review them independent of what either Civ says to us. Unless we get them from mongoose, they are not "official" and we cannot take a definate stance either way. I am not about to take CDG at their word, nor would I for GCA. The whole point of the UN is now coming to bear fruit. This is the FAM's job. As soon as possible please.

We have war plans against both in the future so I really don't see why this is urgent or even necessary.

	30-07-2003 00:25									#500
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I talked with MRex and he said that CDG could play one more turn to see if we get Currency.

Let's hope there's something good in that hut.

Oh, and he also mentioned that GCA got another leader against CDG. That makes 2.

	30-07-2003 00:44									#501
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Which means they had to use their first leader already, most likely on an army.

Of course, it is always possible they rushed a swordsman with it...

	30-07-2003 02:38									#502
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quote: Oh, and he also mentioned that GCA got another leader against CDG. That makes 2.

Ok their luck is starting to make me sick

	30-07-2003 02:46									#503
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quote: Originally posted by wervdon Ok their luck is starting to make me sick

And makes me wonder if CDG's claim is true that their luck was manufactured. I truly hope it's not true. But they have had some AMAZING luck... first stopping CDG's immortal offensive, taking three cities in a few turns, all the while still at war with CFC and running less of a military than we have.

	30-07-2003 03:06									#504
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill And makes me wonder if CDG's claim is true that their luck was manufactured. I truly hope it's not true. But they have had some AMAZING luck... first stopping CDG's immortal offensive, taking three cities in a few turns, all the while still at war with CFC and running less of a military than we have.

It makes me extremely suspicious as well, but I can't figure how they'd do it unless the game was accidentally placed on NOT preserving the random seed when started by 1BC and given to GCA for the first turn.

But someone should try to calculate the odds of GCA actually being this lucky to have units promoted to elite AND then produce GL's for so few combats so far in the game. I'm pretty sure the odds are already in the 100's to 1 at this point and will rise exponentially higher if their insane luck continues...

As the possibility of such things naturally occuring diminishes...

I'll do the calculations on this myself if I can get estimates for the data from someone in the know

	30-07-2003 06:24									#505
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Well if we start attacking there should be no way they can alter results there. As long as we can decimate anything they have to begin with they can't manipulate results. This IS the idea, right?

	30-07-2003 06:53									#506
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The GL against CFC was while CFC attacked. Not a damn thing GCA could have done to accomplish that.

CDG knows of a second leader? How? They attacked and created it? Again, nothing to do with GCA. GCA attacked to create it? All that would show is the !!! marks on the name, the GL would be long gone before CDG ever saw it. And why is this mentioned now and not earlier?

	30-07-2003 11:56									#507
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I say we start up our own rumor.

A GCA Great Leader running around North of Incensity

	30-07-2003 12:17									#508
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CDG could be mistaken. The coud have seen the unit with the "*" by it's name denoting that it had produced a GL; only that it was a unit that created the GL against CFC and not now. Seeing how CDG played this game, any info they give us has to be taken with a grain of salt.

	30-07-2003 12:20									#509
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Are we allowed to ask them for their save game + password, to check such things and obtain more info on GCA?

	30-07-2003 14:24									#510
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I wasn't accusing them of cheating, I was just saying their luck is making me sick :P