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Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:19 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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The War Has Started! Increase Your PM Length

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...95393?version=1

The war has started
By Robert Fox, Defence Correspondent and David Taylor, Evening Standard

British and American troops were involved in fierce fighting near Iraq's
main port today as the war to topple Saddam Hussein began.

The firefight broke out near Basra as men of the Special Boat Service
targeted the strategically vital city and the oilfields in southern Iraq.

At the same time allied troops were flooding into the demilitarised zone on
the Iraqi border with Kuwait 40 miles away to take up positions for an
all-out invasion.

Cruise missiles were also loaded onto B52 bombers at RAF Fairford in
Gloucestershire, a clear sign that the bombardment of Baghdad could be only
hours away.

British troops taking up "forward battle positions" were ordered to switch
off satellite phones and allied warplanes bombed targets in Iraq after
coming under fire in the no-fly zone.

By lunchtime, allied forces were in position to strike from the moment the
48-hour deadline set by President Bush for Saddam to quit Iraq expires at
1am British time tomorrow. But the White House had refused to rule out a
strike before that.

The fighting reported at Basra was believed to involve British special
forces and US marines in an operation to prepare landing sites for
amphibious craft during an invasion.

Other special units were deep inside Iraq on secret operations to prepare
landing strips in the desert for airborne troops.

Basra, Iraq's only seaport, lies on the Shatt al Arab waterway where the
Tigris and the Euphrates open into the northern Gulf.

Surrounded by treacherous sandbanks and marshes it is difficult to approach
from the sea.

Artillery, infantry and the tanks of the 7th Armoured Brigade had already
moved into Forming Up Positions, and some were already on the start line.

An attack could target Basra and proceed up alongside the Euphrates towards
the strategic cities of Nasariya, Najaf and Karbala.

Tony Blair said he believed all MPs, irrespective of their views on the war,
now wished British troops well.

"I know everyone in this House wishes our Armed Forces well," he said in the
Commons.

A sandstorm whipped across northern Kuwait as the pace of preparations
suddenly quickened Kuwaiti security sources disclosed that allied troops
move into the demilitarised zone, which straddles the Iraq-Kuwait border, at
around 11am local time, 8am UK time.

The source, working in the Umm Qasr area in the east of the zone, said:
"American convoys are still driving towards Umm Qasr."

A US military spokesman said he could not confirm or deny that troops were
inside the zone.

A British Army spokesman said only that soldiers had taken up " forward
battle positions".

At Fairford, 14 giant American B52 bombers which will lead the fight against
Saddam were loaded up with cruise missiles this morning.

The first flight of B52s were expected to take off two hours before sunset
to give them enough flying time to identify their targets and drop their
first devastating payload before heading for home.

The missiles were driven to the aircraft in five articulated lorries
escorted by police at 10.30am.

Troops meticulously loaded the weapons - each costing around £1million -
into the bomb bays by forklift truck.

With an estimated flight time of only six hours to Iraq the bombers are
expected to play a huge part in the initial air bombardment. A single B52
can deliver a payload of more than 70,000lb at a range of 8,800 miles
without being refuelled. They are likely to take up positions over the
Mediterranean or the Red Sea to unleash cruise missiles or satelliteguided
smart bombs. RAF Tornados, Harriers and Jaguars are also likely to be
involved in the opening 48-hour offensive.

The Tornados will be given the specific task of taking out air defences and
barracks round small missile batteries and air strips in the Iraqi desert.

This will enable the enemy positions to be quickly seized by airborne forces
and turned into bases for the advancing allied armies.

The Harrier force of up to 20 planes has the job of supporting special
forces, the SAS and Special Boat Service and American Rangers in the hunt
for Scud missile sites and any artillery shells with chemical warheads.
Intelligence suggests Saddam has given his generals personal authority to
unleash the deadly weapons as a last desperate measure to hold the Allies
off from attacking Baghdad.

The mainstay of the bombing attack will be the 750 American and British
fighter bombers from Gulf bases and the six American aircraft carriers now
at battle stations in the Mediterranean and the Arabian Sea.

The aircraft, including RAF Tornados and Harriers, F16s, F15s and F18
Hornets will work on a "taxi rank" basis, forming ranks in the air before
being sent in on targets. Along with the B52s from Fairford, other longrange
bombers include the almost mythical B2 Spirit bat-wing supersonic aircraft
which will fly from bases on Diego Garcia. Also spearheading the attack will
be B1B Lancer and F117 Stealth bombers.

Action began in the air today as warplanes from the USS Abraham Lincoln
bombed Iraqi positions after coalition aircraft - including two RAF Harrier
jets - were fired on by Iraqi forces.

"There were, yesterday, four firings against our aircraft flying in the
southern no-fly zone," Rear Admiral John Kelly told reporters on board the
Lincoln. He said US forces had responded by bombing "a series of targets" he
described as "command and control" positions.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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And this as well
(with a special thanks to remorseless at FFZ for providing the links)

Saddam's troops fire the first shots of the conflict
By Patrick Cockburn in northern Iraq
19 March 2003


Two Iraqi helicopters fired machine guns and rockets into three Kurdish villages on the front line north of Kirkuk yesterday, in the first shots intended to kill in the coming war.

''There were two of them, one an attack helicopter and the other normally used for transport, attacking the villages where people herding cattle live," Mohammed Fateh, a local Kurdish military commander, said.

Kurdish officers believe that the Iraqi helicopter attack on the three impoverished and half-ruined villages of Bashtapa, Girdalanka and Sherawa in the hills south-east of Qush Tappa was a desperate effort by the Iraqi army to raise the morale of its men and prove that its firepower is still to be reckoned with.

''Maybe they fear that the Iraqi soldiers want to flee, so they did this to raise their spirits," said General Nasrudin Mustafa, the Kurdish commander for this sector, who had driven up from his headquarters to inspect the front line moments after the strafing took place.

Many people from the villages, in the no-man's land between the Kurdish and Iraqi army forces, had already fled to the nearby city of Arbil, he said.

The Iraqi soldiers facing the Kurdish enclave in northern Iraq appear to have recent orders to show they still have teeth. A few days ago they fired mortar shells at tracks used by smugglers near Qush Tappa to bring goods from Kirkuk, 40 miles to the south.

Local commanders of the peshmerga (Kurdish guerrillas), dressed in their traditional baggy trousers, were tense because the Iraqi army had changed the unit facing them and reinforced it. General Mustafa, a burly man in a black and white turban, whom we had accompanied to the front, calmed them, saying: "The Iraqis have only switched units around because they are afraid their soldiers will establish links with the peshmerga. They have also sent in some more tanks and cannon, but not many of either."

The Iraqi army is deeply sensitive to what happens on this section of the front line, because of fears that the peshmerga will take advantage of the US air bombardment to recover villages from which they were deported or forced to flee over the past 25 years. Asked if he plans to attack, General Mustafa smiled and said discreetly: "We are waiting for orders from our leadership."

On the road leading to the front line, which is really a thinly held series of strongpoints, there are many signs of the coming war. Most of the traffic consists of battered pick-up trucks and orange and white taxis, into which families are crammed as they drive to safety in mountain villages. Small boys and sheepdogs are herding flocks from their pastures to places less likely to be caught in the fighting.

In the village of Khalaq Yassin Agha on another part of the front, overlooked by hills held by the Iraqi army, a young man called Nawzad Aziz said: "All the people here have gone. But every family has left one man behind to look after their house."

On the crest of the hill, Iraqi soldiers had just positioned a heavy machine-gun and dug some trenches, but local leaders were surprisingly sanguine. Chato Ramazan, whose headquarters is an old Iraqi army fort of medieval appearance, agreed that most of the people in the village were afraid. "But I don't think the army here will fight," he said. "I think that for the first few hours of the war they might fire at us, but then they will give up." For the moment, however, the government is keeping a tight grip.

As war gets closer, a mass exodus is under way from Arbil, the largest Kurdish city, with a population of 900,000. "All my relatives and friends have left because they are frightened of an attack by poison gas," Assur, a moneychanger, said nervously. "I am going soon myself."

Many of the shops are shut, and shopkeepers are removing valuable stock such as carpets to their homes. Others have bought large quantities of plastic sheeting to put around doors and windows to keep out the gas. They are also storing drinking water at home, in case it becomes contaminated. One former peshmerga said he was hurrying to buy a gun in the local market before that closed as well.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:23
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Increase the size of your Attachments

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:26
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Tired of ads?

Looks like they took the first story off the site

carnide_ is offline carnide_
Prince
I live here
Aug 1999
time: 05:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:32
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Here we go!
Lets hope for the best and be prepared for the worst.

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:32
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Suffering from ads?

Well Ming, it looks like you may actually have to close one of your own threads if this turns out to be untrue

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:32
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Well, none of the news channels as of yet say anything other than airstrikes against missile betteries and atry accross the border.

I am suspicious about these two stories. I will await the word of larger news orgs, like the AP and reuters.

Jac de Molay is offline Jac de Molay
Prince
Detroit
Sep 2001
time: 05:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:33
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Something must be going down, 'cause I can't get any newsites.

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:34
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Got spare money?

Toast!

I always wanted to do that...

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:35
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It might be true. This would be pulling surprise out of a hat. You woulds expect a couple of leaks under these circumstances. Then again...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:36
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Does this mean Bush lied about his ultimatum?

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Jan 1970
time: 23:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:37 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Nahhh... it sounds like an advance team got caught in a fire fight.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Does this mean Bush lied about his ultimatum?



Saddam already rejected it. So, why wait?

Edan is offline Edan
Chieftain

Dec 2002
time: 00:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:37
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...-615748,00.html
quote:
THE first shots of the war have been fired, killing at least one Iraqi during a suspected operation to mine the waters off Kuwait.


May this war end quickly and with little loss of life. And hopefullyit will bring about a better world, particularily for the Iraqi people.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:37
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No. When Saddam refused, that was it...according to the press secratry...what's his name.

Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:41
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Thanks for clearing that up Ming, after reading more, I agree.

Lancer, Lonestar... I think the ultimatum was also a warning to the civilian population so that they could take cover. Going ahead with an invasion before the deadline would probably hurt the civilian population more than it would bother Saddam.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:41
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Ari the Butcher

Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Ari the Butcher



I wouldn't give him that much credit Boris. It's more like, Ari the bumbling baffoon.

Lancer is offline Lancer
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:46
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Sava, surprise though...get in quick and painless. That can save lives, and possibly alot. If Saddams chemical or bio warfare units could be taken out before they knew the war was on...save lots of lives.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
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Ari "I will not comment" Fleischer...

Better than Donald "I'll always comment, regardless of my ignorance" Rumsfeld, I suppose...

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava



I wouldn't give him that much credit Boris. It's more like, Ari the bumbling baffoon.


Fleischer = "butcher" in German.

Sava is offline Sava
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Mar 2001
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Fleischer = "butcher" in German.

I don't speak German...

Lancer: I don't think jumping the gun by 6 hours or so will really save any lives. What's the point of a deadline if you're not going to follow it? But this point is moot as Ming explained this was not a full engagement.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
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Sava

I would like to remind you of what the illustrious Oliver North said during the first Gulf War.

"Nuke their ass and take their gas!"

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:56
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There are rumours of this on the prime time TV news in Sweden, but nothing is confirmed. (30 seconds ago)

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 00:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar

"Nuke their ass and take their gas!"


Radioactive gasoline would give your car an extra boost, wouldn't it?

Lancer is offline Lancer
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  Old Post 20-03-2003 01:09
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FOX just reported an airstrike on the artilery that was within range of the coalition forces. The concern was that they could fire chemical rounds prior to or early in the attack, while the coalition was involved in the mine fields, and exposed.

Ozz is offline Ozz
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Mar 2002
time: 05:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 01:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Sava, surprise though...get in quick and painless. That can save lives, and possibly alot. If Saddams chemical or bio warfare units could be taken out before they knew the war was on...save lots of lives.


Yeah, i'm sure they wouldn't be on full alert after getting
a deadline from Bush.

Not that surprise will make any differience.

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
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Dec 2002
time: 23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
FOX just reported an airstrike on the artilery that was within range of the coalition forces. The concern was that they could fire chemical rounds prior to or early in the attack, while the coalition was involved in the mine fields, and exposed.


Heres the article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81505,00.html

Cookie Monster is offline Cookie Monster
King
New England
Jul 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 01:25
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Weird, tried clicking on the link Plato1003 supplied and it was dead.

I have yet to see anything on any newsite about this. Can someone provide a working link?

Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:26
  Old Post 20-03-2003 01:28
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Nothing had start before missiles start raining on Baghdad.

(I wanted to make the first thread. Damnit! )

 
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