20-03-2003 08:57									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Serb USA should be excluded from UN.

I Serb.

	20-03-2003 08:58									#92
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I'm referring to the League's failure to act when Japan began it's 'expansion' in Asia, mostly.

	20-03-2003 08:58									#93
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In response to gangerolf's recently edited post by Ming, (he said why change the flag to Iraq in support of Saddam)

The flag is not the flag of Saddam's regime. It is the flag of the Iraqi people, innocent victims of this terrible war of aggression. I have no love for Saddam, and personally, I hope he dies, but this war is illegal and should be condemned by all nations wishing for a world order based on the respect of existing international institutions, something which the Bush administration HAS NOT DONE.

	20-03-2003 09:00									#94
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Wait, when did Iraq invade someone currently?

According to the prez and his boy, we hare doignt his because we have Un authorization from previous resolutions. The very premise of this war is based on Saddam defying UN rules..now, if the UN is irrelevant, why is breaking its rules meaningful?

But enough aboutt he UN, which surely will outlast the dark days of Bush...

	20-03-2003 09:00									#95
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Well one thing is for certain. I feel a lot less safer and a lot more powerless than I did a few months ago.....

	20-03-2003 09:01									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Serb : don't you understand USA's strongest desire was to make the UN respected ? You are truly living in a fantasy world

WTF?
If you think that UN=USA, then it's correct, but as far as I know UN include a bit more members than just United States of America. They act without permision of UN security concil, which means that they act AGAINST the will of UN.
Sorry, but this argument is total crap, because in other words it's- "I act for your own sake people, my only desire is to make you more respected and I don't care if you do not understand this. All of you are wrong, I'm the only one who is right".

	20-03-2003 09:01									#97
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The UN acted rather quickly when Iraq begun "expanding" in Kuwait IIRC. Gulf War 1 got support from almost all governments, and had UN approval.

Serb : I was ironic. I admit I switch too much from irony to serious mode tosay, so I'd better use smilies.

	20-03-2003 09:03									#99
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Yeah Veto, we want the NPT to cllapse, so that any jusitifcation we would have to strike at NK and Iraqn for making nukes would disappear, along with our basing rights around the world! That's a great thing to wish for

Justification?? What justification? it's all a bunch of excuses and lies. Where did Iraq have nukes? You didn't even let the inspectors a chance.

Coming from a country which has thousands of nuclear warheads, and has publically expressed the possibility of using them, I find asking countries to NK and Iraq to disarm extremely hypocritical. The US will soon spend on defense the equivalent of the rest of the world together. Who will demand the US to disarm??

Basing rights...so you can strike at more countries. Sure, you need them...

	20-03-2003 09:03									#100
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my humble opinoin is that the UN has actually been strengthened by all this

	20-03-2003 09:03									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor The UN acted rather quickly when Iraq begun "expanding" in Kuwait IIRC. Gulf War 1 got support from almost all governments, and had UN approval.

It did not have full support from the Soviets.

	20-03-2003 09:04									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Overthrowing regimes goes against the UN Charter

No it doesn't.

quote: It did not have full support from the Soviets.

They had other problems at the time so no one cared what they thought.

	20-03-2003 09:05									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen In response to gangerolf's recently edited post by Ming, (he said why change the flag to Iraq in support of Saddam) The flag is not the flag of Saddam's regime. It is the flag of the Iraqi people, innocent victims of this terrible war of aggression. I have no love for Saddam, and personally, I hope he dies, but this war is illegal and should be condemned by all nations wishing for a world order based on the respect of existing international institutions, something which the Bush administration HAS NOT DONE.

Exactly

	20-03-2003 09:05									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf my humble opinoin is that the UN has actually been strengthened by all this

Stengthened? The Security Council just lost its dignity in front of the world. If anything this war has shown the world that the UN is practically worthless in resolving conflicts.

Bad times indeed...

	20-03-2003 09:07									#105
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BTW, was it only me, but did any of you imagine Bush's speech ending with the immortal phrase:

"MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS!"

	20-03-2003 09:09									#106
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The UN may be stronger in the eyes of world opinion, but in true political terms...it has suffered a crushing blow, as the world's only superpower has acted against Iraq in spite of it.

	20-03-2003 09:10									#107
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I think Gangerwolf meant that the UN has the potential to strenghten itself now, in view of the current situation.

Don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth, please correct me if I'm wrong.

	20-03-2003 09:11									#108
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Well once that arrogant cowboy is hopefully voted out the next election then maybe the US might work to rebuilding the UN and the ideal of International Law.

To be honest I couldn't give a toss who the American president is and what he (a woman president, are you mad! ) say or does, its just a shame the rest of the planet has put up with their crap aswell

	20-03-2003 09:11									#109
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I personally feel that with the US clout over the UN and the world, there really is no hope for both.

MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON OUR SOULS!

	20-03-2003 09:12									#110
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Wow, 5 consecutive posts by Iraqi posters ! Have fear, Finns !

	20-03-2003 09:15									#111
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What the world needs is for the US to be "whupped" by Martains then after a dose of humility they might give up the whole "empire" thing (its been done lads ) and settle down to living that "pursuit of happiness" thing and making more episodes of 24

	20-03-2003 09:17									#112
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quote: I think Gangerwolf meant that the UN has the potential to strenghten itself now, in view of the current situation.

yes.

and who will bush (hopefully) turn to when the question of rebuilding Iraq and creating a new Iraqi government arises? -> The UN.

	20-03-2003 09:17									#113
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc No it doesn't.

Really?
Please tell us more. What else doesn't goes against the UN Charter? Bombardments of independednt countries? Invasion to independent countries? Slaughtering population of independent countries, etc?
Go ahead, enlighten us.

	20-03-2003 09:20									#114
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quote: Bombardments of independednt countries? Invasion to independent countries? Slaughtering population of independent countries,

Notice how Serb is careful to use the term "independent countries"? We wouldn't want our trolls being used to criticize Russian atrocities in Chechnya, now, would we?

	20-03-2003 09:22									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Serb Really? Please tell us more.

I could point you to the specific UNSC resolutions where they put thier seal of approval on the concept if you really want me to.

quote: Slaughtering population of independent countries, etc?

There's yet to be any signifigant whining about Russia doing such things, so I couldn't really say for sure.

	20-03-2003 09:23									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Wow, 5 consecutive posts by Iraqi posters ! Have fear, Finns !

	20-03-2003 09:26									#117
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I said regime overthrow was against the UN Charter. You said:

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc No it doesn't.

I suggest you re-read the UN charter if you have not done so before affirming the contrary.

Chapter I Article 2 Paragraph 7

Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll.

Chapter VII refers to the Security Council giving authorization of military force, which it hasn't. Hence it is illegal.

Also,

The Declaration of Principles of International Law, a UN document ratified in 1970 also states:

No state shall organise, assist, foment, finance, incite or tolerate subversive, terrorist or armed activities directed towards the violent overthrow of the regime of another state, or interfere in civil strife in another state

	20-03-2003 09:26									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Bombardments of independednt countries? Invasion to independent countries? Slaughtering population of independent countries, Notice how Serb is careful to use the term "independent countries"? We wouldn't want our trolls being used to criticize Russian atrocities in Chechnya, now, would we?

How about attrocities they committed after we gave them independence?

	20-03-2003 09:28									#119
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quote: How about attrocities they committed after we gave them independence?

It's clear that the Russians are the evil agressors. The Chechens are just freedom fighters responding to Russia's unjustified and immoral aggression.

	20-03-2003 09:29									#120
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No offense but compared to the atrocities Russians commited during the 2 chechen wars, they pale in comparison.

Don't use the terrorist thread as an excuse for your own imperialist ambitions, my fellow Russians, since that makes you people no better than the US.